American Trap vs Bunker

[cimmaronkid]

Looks like the Sporting Clays and 3-5 stand are slowing becoming the top shotgun games in this country replacing conventional Trap and Skeet and there is a good reason why. These games are much more challenging and are harder to to go "straight". 16 yd singles and large bore skeet have turned into "endurance matches" with 100 straights being the norm and shoot-offs lasting several additional rounds as have doubles matches in the upper classifications. These games have been made easier over the years with the reduction in angles, limited flight distance, unlimited alibi's, etc., all in the name of being able to shoot 100 straight.

The Europeans have shot tougher games for years as they are not as concerned with shooting "straights" as we are and when they do, it is a major accomplishment. These are the games that are shot in the olympics and have one of the largest gallery followings of fans, but you wouldn't know it by our television coverage. The shooters are as well known throughout Europe, Russia, and England as our sports figures are to us.

In American trap, you are are starting at the 16 yd. line and go back to the 27 yd line for handicap events with targets being thrown about 33 degrees either side of the center line(used to be 45) with targets coming out at a fixed height of 10'. Trap oscillates and throws the target 55 yds. at a speed of about 45 mph with each shooter shooting 5 targets on each of 5 stations. In International Trap(pit or bunker) you are shooting from approximately 20 yds at a target that is thicker and can come out at a speed of 90+ mph and is thrown a minimum of 70 meters and can come out at a height of anywhere from 1 meter to 3 meters. Most Italian and Spanish bunker ranges throw the target close to 80+ meters. There are 3 traps in front of each shooter and a target can be thrown 45 degrees either side of the center trap. Each shooter fires 1 shot per station and then moves with a round being 25 targets. With the advent of computers, each shooter now gets the same number of target presentations in a 150 bird match as the next so luck is completely removed.

In our game, we allow a 1 1/8 oz. 3 dram load. In bunker, the load is dropped to 7/8 oz of shot but with a 3 1/4 dram powder charge and allowed 2 shots to break the birds. Release is by electronic voice. If you ever get a chance to shoot bunker and think this game is easy, you will probably not even see the first target let alone break it! The closest we have right now is the ATA Wobble Trap that basically gives the same target presentation but at a somewhat slower speed and distance. Hardly any 100 straights are recorded here as compared to conventional trap.

There is also a dress code that is rigidly enforced for these events. Shorts higher than 6" above the knee cap, sleeveless shirts, and shooting in a vest without a shirt are VERBOTEN. Also, don't show up looking like a Nascar driver with patches all over your vest as you will not be allowed to shoot.

Since 1994 in international competition, there have only been 6 shooters in the world to break 125 straight for the qualification round, and NO ONE HAS EVER GONE 150 STRAIGHT! This game is dominated by the Italians and Russians with a US shooter winning every now and then.

In and around Bresica, Italy there are over 15 bunker ranges. In all of the United States, there is only 12.

If you are lucky enough to have a bunker range, use it as you will be hooked. If not, most ranges now have the wobble traps on at least one range.

[jlpskydive]

I'm a friggin Trap junkie, at my club it seems only the old dogs and maybe two or three young ones (me and two others) shoot it. Most are skeet and 5 stand. It's cool you never have to wait to shoot.

[cimmaronkid]

Jlp, I learned on skeet and shot it for years and then went over to the "dark side" and started shooting trap. Growing up in Oklahoma, skeet shooters were in the minority as everyone there shot trap. I quite shooting registered trap when they starteed decreasing the angles and giving more alibi's to shooters for slow/fast pulls, dud shells, broken equipment, etc. I carried a 98 16 yd average, had a 25 yd handicap, and shot 94 on pairs. With the new electronic release systems, computer target presentation programs, and the stiffer rules for alibis in wobble have once again got me back behind a comp gun when I am not behind my Sharps. No more turning down targets because of slow/fast pulls, tougher angles, harder, faster targets, and knowing that everyone shoots the same number of lefts/rights/ups/downs due to the computer programming makes this game the great equalizer and truly decides who is the best shooter. 100 straights are hardly ever shot on wobble and Bunker is even harder. Once you start shooting Wobble or Bunker you will never go back to regular trap.

What gun do you use and how is it choked? Do you have enough guys to shoot games such as Elimination, Texas Elimination, Protection or Covey? We get a pot going and just pay for the targets from the pot and the winner takes all. Sometimes we will have 15-20 guys at $2/head for the elimination so everyone has a lot of fun, some people make a little money, and it is different!

[jlpskydive]

The gun I'm using now is what some consider a POS but, I shoot pretty well with it. I haven't been shooting trap very long but I love it. I'm shoot a Daly 28' 12ga with a modified choke. The place I shoot has national matches and it's pretty intimadating to watch them with 10K guns. I usally hit about 20 a round and the older guys tell me I'm getting better every time. It's just flat out FUN TO ME!!!

[cimmaronkid]

Nothing wrong with the Daly! They are an extremely good gun for the price and will hold up extremely well. If the gun has choke tubes, I would ask you to put in a IM or even full tube and shoot some with it. Unless you shoot fast (I don't) the modified pattern will open up a little too much thereby not getting enough pellets to break the target. If the gun is a fixed choke, go to a 1 oz 3 dram load and watch the difference. The faster round will make up for a little bit of choke and by having more velocity will hit harder. Same holds for #7 1/2 shot over #8's. Once you are over that magic 20 mark then it becomes a technique improvement to pick up those other 5. From there, it is just repeating what you did before and soon the 100 straights will show up.

If you can find these two books get them as they will help a lot. First book is "Trapshooting with the Remington Pros" by D.Lee Braun and the Winchester trapshooting book by Fred Misseldine. Guaranteed to improve your scores.

Don't let the big $$$ guns intimidate you. Most of us old guys started out shooting cheap Winchester and Remington guns and probably should have stayed with them as our scores would probably be better. As you get older, your disposable income increases and allows us to buy the toys we have always wanted. There have probably been more 100 straights broken with Winchester and Remington pumps and autos than all of the other big name Italian guns combined. Remember, that target doesn't know if it was hit by a shell fired from a 30+ year old 870 or a Perazzi MX8 and neither does the score sheet.

[7.62-chunker]

WINCHESTER Diamond Grade 4 BBl set, only use it in the 4 gun matches, My gun of choice in the 12ga {skeet} is my Remingtom 1100 skeet grade,bought in 1985, after that move to the trap field, BT99, old style.

[cimmaronkid]

I have a full set of 1100 Skeet guns that I shoot every now and then to blow the dust out of them. Only one I ever had problems with was the 12 ga. with a cracked receiver.(very early gun) Remington sent me a new receiver assembly back with my wood at no cost. Last 1100 I bought was the 410 in 1969 and paid the whopping sum of $198.65 for the SA model. Have several Trap models as well.

My first single barrel trap gun was a used BT99 I got from Gene Sears in El Reno, OK and then sent it to Witchita to have Slim Speer put in a release. Some of my best scores I ever shot were with that gun including 199x200 at the Oklahoma state shoot. Still have it. I have and shoot Ljutics and Perazzi TM 1's(my favorite for a single barrel)but Browning got it right with the first model of the BT and then tried to improve and kinda turned some of the other models into a fancy club IMHO.

Since the ATA keeps changing the rules and making the game easier, I have gone to shooting wobble and bunker almost entirely. Lot more of a challenge.
Also, it seems that the older guns were built a lot better than some of the newer stuff. I tried to buy a Diamond grade 2 barrel Trap set (30" O/U and 34" unsingle) and chased it to over $2000 and gave up. Called Garland Sears and they had a 30" NIB that he would let me have on sale for $1900 as I was such a good customer. Should have tried harder to buy the set.

I think the Diamond grade guns were some of the greatest guns that Winchester had built. They are getting harder to find and really going up in value.