Problems with extraction

[popo]

My FN FAL has problems with extraction. It will only extract the spent case out about half way. Then to get it out the rest of the way you have to force the charging handle back. I have adjusted the gas regulator...no luck. I have replaced the gas tube, regulator, piston...no luck. I have also replaced all the springs in the weapon. It is a Century Brand. I had shot it after I first got it and it shot fine. I was religious about cleaning the chamber and gas system.
Any help/suggestions would be greatly appreciated

[Perro]

it is most likely a problem with not getting enough gas to drive the piston back

things to check
#1 - what brand gas piston?? many out of spec crap pistons made in past
#2 - is the gas tube soldered?? if not, and its a bad fit, gas can blow past
#3 - are you SURE you have the regulator adjusted correctly?? the FAL controls how much gas is released into the air - the larger the hole on the regulator, the less gas applied to the piston. The smaller the hole on the regulator, the less gas released into the air and more gas to push on the piston.
#4 - what barrel?? If the gas hole isnt drilled to spec, you can have probs - is it a US made barrel, and was it done by CAI? If so, you may need to ream the gas hole through the front sight block by removing the front sight post.

and lastly, have you had it headspaced?


on FURTHER thought - its probably NOT a gas piston issue
if it only extracts from the chamber half way, and you have to FORCE the charging handle back
your problem lies in either the ammo used, or its binding somewhere
does it bind when you hand cycle the firearm without any ammunition present?

headspace can cause funny things to happen to your brass when its fired
what type of ammo, and does it bind without ammo installed?

[Rampager]

Is the gas plug in upside down? This will cause single shot (grenade launch mode).
Is the pin still in the gas tube?
Are you using different ammo than before?

[popo]

It's a DSA stainless piston
The gas piston is not soldered
I'm using South African ammo
It doesn't seem to bind when I cycle the action
I've never had it headspaced as it fired fine when I first purchased it.
I have replaced the original gas plug (grenade launcher sight) with a quick detach from DSA. But have switched it back with the same results.......

[M1 Tanker]

Maybe your gas block is worn out, as Perro said with the gas tube. If its loose you will lose gas there. +1 on the barrel comments too.

I think Perro and Rampager covered every single item I can think of other then barrel length. Is the barrel an original barrel of original length or has it been cut down?

[Rampager]

On the gas tube on mine I wrapped the threads with teflon tape to aid in sealing. I've heard if that little pin on the gas tube falls out or you forget to put it in it can cause problems too.

Try taking the bolt/carrier assembly out and also pull the gas piston out, take the spring off the gas piston and with the gun pointing up drop the piston back down in the tube and see if it's drops through without getting caught or binding.

It should fall right through. (checking for bent gas tube and or piston).

[Rampager]

A few more things I'd check that came to mind...

Try checking the diameter of your old piston against the new DSA one.

If gas piston moves freely if you drop it through along with hand cycling, try teflon tape on the gas tube where it screws into the gas block.

Be sure your recoil springs are not dry, dirty or overly packed with grease as this can cause problems.

Like Perro mentioned also, you could also have a blockage in the gas hole in barrel. The gas hole in the barrel can be cleaned if you remove the front sight and using drill bits (same size by hand) or pipe cleaners.

[Perro]

heres why i say its probably not an issue with his gas piston

he says the following

It will only extract the spent case out about half way. Then to get it out the rest of the way you have to force the charging handle back.

when you charge the weapon with the charging handle the gas piston doesnt enter the receiver at all. The gas piston isnt tied to the cocking handle, or bolt carrier in any way.
if its only extracting the brass half way out of the chamber, and you have to force the cocking handle backwards to get it out the rest of the way, then the brass is either stuck inside of the chamber (headspace issue possibly), or there is binding somewhere (possibly in the us made fire control group, the extractor, the bolt hold open, or the recoil spring/rat tail assembly entering into the stock smoothly which are about the only things that would keep the bolt from cycling back smoothly)

before we go anywhere though, here is a silly question - is your extractor intact and serviceable?

do you have your FCG installed correctly, and is it still in serviceable condition?
is there a blockage inside of the recoil spring compartment of your buttstock/lower receiver?
bent rat tail on the bolt carrier?
extractor look right, does it ride in the bolt correctly and smoothly?
bolt hold open a factory bolt hold open with no mods to it like a nail in it?
mags sit in the receiver correctly so as to not jam the bolt/carrier?

take your top cover off and reassemble and work the action and see if you can see anything binding??

if no binding, you need to check your headspace immediately before shooting it again.
you only really need to buy 1 gauge - a field reject gauge
remove your extractor and clean your bolts face really well as well as your chamber. install the gauge into the barrel and with hand pressure (2 thumb pressure) try to close the bolt and carrier. If it will close with 2 thumb pressure on a field reject gauge, you will need to re headspace it by buying some gauges, and a larger locking shoulder.

if you need help with headspacing, just ask, im proficient on the FAL, and can help. i can also show you how to make a cheap tool for removing your extractor easily if you dont already have the FN made tool

[popo]

THANKS TO EVERYONE. This gives me a better place to start working from. I'll let you know how it turns out...hopefully with some pics. thanks again.

[popo]

Ok.....I found that the gas piston binds in the gas tube where it connects at the front of the reciever. Any suggestions on how to remedy this problem?

:help::help:

[tump]

is your barrel timed properly,has it worked its self lose. who assembled the rifle? if it worked fine before then maybe it wasn't torqued the proper way. looking down the receiver towards the barrel if it rubs on the left its over timed if it rubs on the right its under timed.

[popo]

Well....I assume it has worked loose. It was assembled by Century (R1A1) I guess. How would I go about setting it back to where it will function? I've never built an FN before. Any help is greatly appreciated. I really enjoyed the rifle...when it was working......Just want to be able to shoot it again.

[tump]

to do it yourself you would need a barrel clamp & a receiver wrench or you could send it to a smith and have him go over it. ken at globalmilitarygunsmithing.com is highly reguarded on this and other boards as being very fair. did you check the piston to make sure its not bent? the gas system would not explain the difficulty in the action,unless it has thrown the headspace off. (this is possible with an under timed barrel)

[popo]

I'll probably look at a gunsmith......The piston looks like it's strait....I replaced ity with a new piston a while back as most of the parts on it were "used". thanks for the help.