Century cast receiver problem, no barrel pin hole

[cruffler78]

Just test fired my first cetme build first test went pretty well i built it in pistol config with 10" barrel. It is literally a blast to shoot. I have a question though. It occured to me that with the reciever welded to the trunion and no barrel pin hole in the receiver then changing the barrel in the distant future could be very dificult.Are any of you cutting the hole or are you saving that problem for the future?

[SSwee]

Cutting the hole before welding in the trunion.
SS

[jfowl31]

I definitely have to see this pistol Cetme...

Is this the same guy who posted on another board about not welding the trunnion at all into the receiver or something to that nature?

post some pics of this "pistol" though... and how did you make it legally? I didnt know you could legally make a Cetme pistol since you can just swap a rifle stock so easily... or did you have to do something funky to the receiver?

[texlurch]

Should be able to make a pistol. They have the Vector V53 with a smooth end cap that pins on just like the stock.

[jfowl31]

See I was told by a fairly reputable HK builder that if the receiver is sold as a rifle..... its a rifle. The V53 is sold as a pistol aparently from the factory, so its legal. I just dont get how someone can buy a "rifle" receiver and legally make a "pistol"... it seems like all youve done is make a SBR which of course is illegal without the correct stamps and all that bidness.

definitely worht looking into for sure I think.

[grifter95]

Well you cannot legally convert a rifle to a pistol. However, you can convert a pistol into a rifle. The way to do it is to buy a "virgin" reciever and when it comes in to your FFL make sure they log it in as a pistol the first time. I know this is the way it is done for FALs. If done this way you can convert it into a rifle later on if wanted or keep it as a pistol build.

[jfowl31]

yeah and Ive never heard of Century selling cast pistol receivers........

sounds iffy to me at best.

[okie shooter]

I beleive the standard rule is when its first transfered from the ffl to the user it needs to be done as a pistol, thats how the ak's have been discussed here on this board in the past along with ar's and others.

[grifter95]

okie shooter that's correct. Same way with a bolt action reciever. Thats why you can build a bolt action target pistol from scratch, but not from an existing rifle. When your FFL logs it in, it has to be logged in as a pistol. I have done all my builds this way. Not that I have ever built any of them as a pistol, but this way I always have that option down the road.

[okie shooter]

From this site,
http://www.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs/user/wbardwel/public/nfalist/atf_letter7.txt




October 1, 1992


Firearms Technical Branch
Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms
650 Mass. Ave., NW
Washington, DC 20226

Dear Sirs:

The Greensboro, NC BATF Compliance Office suggested that I write to
you for information on the following point.

I am interested on whether it is possible to have a commercially
manufactured rifle receiver changed to be legally considered to be a handgun
receiver, and how this can be done. The Compliance Office said that this
might be possible via a "Letter of Determination", but advised me to write
to you about the criteria and procedures.

For example, if a person has a rifle receiver and wishes to have it
built into a rifle-caliber handgun suitable for steel silhouette target
shooting, comparable to the bolt action Remington XP-100 handgun. I
understand that the serial number of this receiver is recorded as being for a
rifle. Could this person have this receiver's serial number considered to be
a handgun receiver? If so, what procedures and paperwork would be
necessary.

Sincerely,

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Oct 29 1992
Dear Mr. XXXXX:

This refers to your letter of October 1, 1992, in which you inquire
about the legality of manufacturing a handgun which utilizes a rifle
type receiver.

26 U.S.C. Chapter 53 # 5845(a)(4), the National Firearms Act (NFA),
defines the term "firearm" to include a weapon made from a rifle if
such weapon as modified has an overall length of less than 26 inches
or a barrel or barrels of less than 16 inches in length.

Utilizing the receiver of an existing rifle for the purposes of
manufacturing a handgun would constitute the making of a firearm as
defined above. Individuals desiring to make such a firearm must first
submit an ATF Form 1, Application To Make And Register a Firearm and
pay the applicable $200 making tax.

If an individual were to obtain a rifle type receiver that had not
previously been utilized in the assembly of a rifle, a handgun could be
made and not be subject to the provisions of the NFA. Verification
must be obtained from the manufacturer of the receiver to establish
its authenticity.

We trust the foregoing has been responsive to your inquiry. If we may
be of any further assistance, please contact us.

Sincerely your,
(signed)
Edward M. Owen, Jr.
Chief, Firearms Technology Branch


I guess if you wanted to make a rifle into a pistol you can but you are then actually makeing a sbr subject to tax and registration.

I would like to see a orginal copy though of the letter rather than the text conversion.

[texlurch]

So if I read that right, you could buy a CETME or G3 receiver, then build up as a pistol. Providing you never assemble it as a rifle first.

But your best bet for CYA is to just transfer it from the FFL as a pistol receiver and retain that.

[Geilt]

So if I read that right, you could buy a CETME or G3 receiver, then build up as a pistol. Providing you never assemble it as a rifle first.

But your best bet for CYA is to just transfer it from the FFL as a pistol receiver and retain that.

Correct. As long as the receiver is virgin and never been used in a build you can have it tagged as "pistol" when the FFL transfer is done. If the receiver has ever been used on a rifle, the only option available is to declare it as an SBR, go through the red tape and pay the tax.

[jfowl31]

I am having trouble with the idea of the delayed blow back working correctly with a 10" barrel... at least with a Cetme bolt/carrier/LP

HK sells different LP's for short barreled stuff, but I dont know how you would go about timing a cetme in this configuration.

[Big Steve]

G-3's dont work as a pistol with a 10 1/2 barrel unless you put in a #18 locking piece. My friend Frank built one and it only cycled about 1/2 way back with the stock LP Not enough to eject the round. He put in the #18 LP and it works great. Is there a different LP for a Cetme carbine?
Steve

[cruffler78]

sorry for not getting back, the last time I checked the thread there was only one reply so I thought it was a dead thread. Yes the receiver was transferred to me properly from Century. I went through the same procedure as one would do the ak builds that many are building.

"If an individual were to obtain a rifle type receiver that had not
previously been utilized in the assembly of a rifle, a handgun could be
made and not be subject to the provisions of the NFA. Verification
must be obtained from the manufacturer of the receiver to establish
its authenticity. "
Because the century receiver required some fitting I modified the recoil assy to fit the rec so that a standard one will not fit. I plan on putting a steel block in place somewhere just to be on the safe side.
As far as cycling it functioned well with only 3 malfunctions out of about 60 rds. I was a little apprehensive as this was my first CETME type build, so for the first 10 rds it was tied down to an old tire and each spent case was examined for stress etc. The only real problem is that My spot welder had not penetrated well enough so that after 60 rds the trunion had scooted forward enough (I was test firing without the cocking tube welded in or a handguard on) that the magazine was getting loose. I needed to thread the barrel anyway so I knocked the trunion/barrel assy out and right now it is on my lathe waiting for some threads. Once I get it back together I will post some pics.