A2 buttstock question

[jfowl31]

My lower came with a A2 buttstock on it (per my request), and Im wondering what there is that I can replace the sling attachment point with.

Ill be using a 3-point sling with a stirrup attachment to the rear, so Im thinking I could just get rid of the attachment point altogether.

What else is made to go in that spot back there? Is there one of those fancy 3rd point thingies for bench shooting that fits in that spot?

Ill be setting this rifle up as a varmint rig with a Harris Bipod up front, so one of those 3rd point things would be cool.... Otherwise, is there just a piece that fits in there that doesnt protrude out of the stock? Otherwise, Im just gonna cut off the sling attachment part and just use the threaded piece to attach the buttpad.

Sorry to get all scientific on you guys using words like "thingie" but I had to do it... and besides, I couldnt think what that "thingie" was called.:jumping:

[SSwee]

You could hang a pink tassle from your thingie or since it's a varmit rifle a coon's tail.
SS

[Perro]

if you are going to seriously use it for a varmint rifle
learn how to shoot loop, or hasty sling

and for that, you will need the standard M16 sling

it helps drastically shooting hasty, it helps even more shooting loop

i believe that the appleseed shoots that teach you how to truly shoot a firearm correctly teach loop and or hasty - if you cant learn it there, learn it somewhere

3 point slings belong on a g3k, or an ak foty snizzle, not a ground hog blaster in MY opinion - would look sorta out of place on a varmint gun if you ask me, but hey, if thats your thing, who am i to say anything ;)

at the VERY least, learn hasty and loop sling - it will improve your shooting greatly

[jfowl31]

In my best Gary Coleman voice...

Whatchu talkin bout Perro?

I've got NO clue what you are talking about with all this Hasty bidness.

No really though... got a link to what you're talking about?

Im completely lost in the AR world...

[jfowl31]

wait... I just googled it a bit, and is Hasty the style where you wrap the sling around your non shooting arm?

Thats a horrible description, but I think I know what youre talking about, and was taught to shoot this way, I just never knew what it was called.

Thats all fine and good for someone shooting in the field or stalking or something, But I'll just be sitting at a bench or on top of a sistern waiting for rabbits or such to cross a field while sipping a non-alcoholic beverage and dippin copenhagen... The only fancy shooting technique will be resting the rifle, aiming the 24x scope and squeezing the trigger... The only reason I would put a 3-point sling on it is because its the most comfortable type sling for me to use... and I plan on having other configurations for the same lower that would be more "tacticool" and the 3-point would fit better for that application.

JMO as well... Doesnt the hasty put an unwanted stress point on the barrel? since I will be shooting from a bench with a FF handguard, I dont think Id want any unwanted contact points on the barrel.

[jfowl31]

anyways... what else can be attached in that spot on the bottom rear of the A2 buttstock... we can talk slings and shooting techniques another time.

[Perro]

if its a free floating barrel, you arent putting any stresses on the barrel :D
think about that for a bit eh?

hasty sling is wrapping your elbow into the sling and around your forearm to tighten your off hand groups

loop sling, you open the sling up by the buckle
give it a twist
insert your arm into it
and wrap it around your forearm steadying the figure 8 you will see at your front sight post when concentrating on making the shot.
it is needed to be so tight it cuts the circulation off in your arm and makes your non shooting arm go numb (which helps to keep you from naturally grabbing the rifle which affects accuracy)

shooting bipod will take its place, or even a bench rest, but you still need to learn hasty and loop - i use hasty ALL the time, and loop when i really want it to count

even though it puts stress on the barrel, the firearm generally outshoots MOST people, and by using loop it will cut your group size WAY down.

you should really learn it with the m16 sling, it really does work well

i THINK appleseed teaches it - i bet you will shoot better after attending appleseed - from what im told, they basically teach you what they taught me in the marine corps - i THOUGHT i was a good shot until i really learned how to shoot the Marine Corps way, and loop and hasty are a big part of it. I saw my very own groups shrink in half just by learning loop and hasty - ive shot a 240 out of a possible 250 in the Marine Corps course of fire, and im a 5th award rifle expert because of it ;)

i dont know, i hear varmint rifle and i immediately think of high accuracy, and why the 3 pt sling doesnt seem practical to me - im just blabbing anyway though, so dont listen to me :)

[Perro]

i just thought for a second that maybe you dont have your upper yet?
if you DONT have your upper yet, this is what i mean about not introducing any stress to the barrel.
most varmint ARs have a rail on the bottom of the tube, or the user mounts one to it.
the bipod mounts to that rail, and a sling swivel also mounts to that rail

when you are pulling on it hard with your forearm, it doesnt affect the barrel cause the barrel is free floating, it only tugs on the forearm

thats what i meant by that if you dont have your upper yet

[jfowl31]

No i know what youre talking about Perro, and I do use that techique (both of them) when shooting offhand or prone with no bipod, or kneeling for that matter.

But for this rifle... Ill be shooting off a bench only, with a Harris Bipod, so Ill have plenty stability and wont have to worry about off-hand shots.

The 3-point sling is just strictly for comfort carrying the rifle too and from my bench.

BUT... I do know what youre talking about when you say hasty and loop... and they are wonderful techniques to shrink off-hand groups.

also, just for my own knowledge base... I just assumed a FF front handguard is just barely free floated... and so I thought that the tight sling would make a contact point... but then I start thinking... wait, if a tight sling makes a contact point... wont a bipod since its attached to the handguard?

Just how floated are these handguards, and how much pressure will it take to create a pressure point?

man! now my original question is all but lost... I still want to know what can go in place of the rear sling loop.

[jfowl31]

I dont have my upper yet... that is correct.

and it wont have a rail... just a sling swivel/bipod attachment point.

[Perro]

i have never seen anything mounted there except a standard a2 sling swivel, but the ar has never been my favorite rifle, so count me out of the loop on that one

i bet charlie would know what can be mounted there, or other AR fans, but i cant help you on that one cause ive never seen anyone put anything there but the stock sling swivel

got a welder?? weld a MG34 sustained fire monopod to it - then you dont even have to hold the thing to shoot it, just drink your beverage, chew on copenhagen, and occasionally reach up there to pull the trigger :snicker: :P

http://www.ima-usa.com/product_info.php/cPath/14_212_66_225/products_id/310

[jfowl31]

yeah! the monopod is the "thingie" I was talking about... the 3rd leg of the tripod, so the rifle jsut sits there pointed down range. Its flatshooting enough that it wouldnt have to be adjusted much for elevation.

It seems like the perfect place for one of those to attach to the stock... if it hasnt been done before, doggonnit it should have!

surely some tacticool place has done it.

[jfowl31]

http://www.impactguns.com/store/ACCU-BT03.html

followed by... http://www.impactguns.com/store/ACCU-BT04.html

thats the basic jist of what Im going for... maybe a tad cheaper though if anyone gots any links

[hunter_la5]

http://www.archive.org/details/Rifle_Marksmanship_with_M1_Rifle_Part_1

the first part of this video does a decent job of explaining the loop and hasty sling positions, as well as various shooting positions

[M1 Tanker]

Jfowl, even my 3 point sling on my AR-15 uses the A2 buttstock loop to lock down the where it wraps around the stock.

[texlurch]

Only drawback to a mono pod is you set it for elevation and leave it. If you have to move up or down, side to side it gets in the way.

The aluminum free floats have between 1/4 and 3/8 clearance on the barrel, and you won't flex it with a sling. They are pretty stiff. Mine came with a standard swivel on the front, as well as the AR sling point on the gas block, which I promptly removed.

[cimmaronkid]

Might be happier going with an E2 stock with the hook for what you are shooting and carry around a rear "bunny ear" bag. Fill the bag with ground corn cobs or ground walnut hulls and save the weight. You can also use rice, but don't get the damn thing wet!

I don't know of anything to put in the hole, but look at Brownell's because if anyone has a plug or something, they would.

Tex is right as there is plenty of room between a free float tube and the barrel. Have fun.

[k98k792]

1+ to what cimmaronkid said.
Millet rifle rest
I have used this for several years now,with ALOT of different weapons. It is made of a closed cell vinyl foam. So it is lighter then usual bags.Waterproof and nearly indestructible,HOT barrels don't seem to melt it(so far).The smaller rear rest stores in the front rest for portability.
http://www.gunaccessories.com/Millet/Accessories/Accessories.asp

[jfowl31]

whats an E2 stock?
how much do they run?
Links to pics?
links to sellers?

never heard of E2, but if its more target based, maybe it would suit my application better.

[k98k792]

http://www.bushmaster.com/shopping/buttstocks/16-01-02.asp

[jfowl31]

ahh I see now... Ive never seen one of those before. Id like to hold a gun with that stock on it before I put another $50 into this rifle... maybe I can upgrade to that later...

another question, a while back, I handled an AR at Cabelas in the used section, and it had what I could have sworn was a Hogue grip. It could have been, but then I think I remember it having the palm shelf too... I remember most of all how solid it felt, andnot weak and squishy ya know? Has anyone used the Panther grip? http://www.del-ton.com/AR_15_Grip_p/gp1008.htm

and if so, what did you think of it, and is it a good quality piece? I love how the palm shelf feels on my Cetme, and other rifles, but I would really like for it to be better quality than the Ergo grip for the Cetme... Maybe Ill jsut get the Hogue for now, and mess with that Panther later.

any thoughts?

and K98, which was the rest that you like for the rear? there were a few on tha tpage. Ill probably just go old school and keep a sandbag with me at the bench, but I do think Im gonna either buy another sling swivel and cut it off so that it fits inside or flush with the stock, or Ill just cut mine, and order a new one for later.

Thanks for all the help guys...

[jfowl31]

any comments about quality differences between the link K98 provided and this one? http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=143416

that one is a few bucks cheaper, but would be new... I dont know typically what shape they are in from Bushmaster, or if theres any added value to having a military stock rather than Choate...

[texlurch]

I don't think either stock would add or subtract value. All the Choates I have handled for various guns have been quality.

For PG; I ordered an Ergo for mine, thinking it was what I had on my other AR. But it is actually a SAMCO that is on my 16" that I like a lot. Guess I need to get another one and swap it out, because the Ergo is actually a little small for me. You can check the AR picture thread for the difference.

[k98k792]

Choate makes great stuff,would not hesitate to buy anything from them.

The rest at the top of that pic are the items I was referring to. Comes as a set,front and rear.

At some point I will be going with the Hogue grip. I have them on my 357 and 44 mag .I like the feel of them. Hopefully my A2 kit from Del-Ton will ship soon!

[jfowl31]

Ive had choate stuff before, and I like the quality, but I didnt know if those E2 stocks are somewhat rare or something... Ill probably go with the Choate eventually since it will probably be better looking.

I see what youre talking about K98, I just didnt read the descriptions well enough... I could probably use the rear one in conjunction with a bipod with the regular A2 butt and squeeze it forward or back to raise or lower elevation.

Ill probably go with the Hogue grip too... Its something like $20 at cabelas.

Eventually I want to get a grip that has the adjustable shelf for bench shooting, but I want it to be quality stuff and not soft rubber everything like the one on my Cetme.

Texlurch, what material is the shelf made of on the Ergo? and can you tighten it down nice and tight or will the shelf start to squeeze and pinch the grip causing it to slide down?

[jfowl31]

NM texlurch, I see that the ergo grip you are talking about doesnt have the adjustable palm shelf... it's not the one I was thinking it was.

Ill have to handle some of the palm shelf grips in store or something to make sure I get what Im looking for unless some of you guys has some experience with them and can describe them like I want... Im picky I know, but the one I have on my cetme will work fine and dandy once I do all the mods to it, and I dont really want to do any mods to another one...

[texlurch]

I don't care much for the palm shelf; they just get in the way for my big hands.

[k98k792]

By the way, bipods are not used by bench rest shooters that are into accuracy. They use bags of some sort. Bipods bounce on a bench.

[jfowl31]

Ive got all sorts of rests and stuff, but prefer a bipod in just about all situations... a good harris is every bit as firm as a sandbag, and I dobt Ill be bouncing with a 223 in a heavy barrel... I dont even bounce my cetme the recoil is low enough... but I do hate carrying around sand bags...

A while back, I had my mom make me a bunch of sand bags rather than paying a premium for them... had all the ears and troughs and all that jazz too... I left em outside for a while in the TX sun and they all dry-rotted and cracked though. and besides all that, its just a pain to carry them around... I prefer bipods.

Texlurch... Ive got huge hands too, and for some reason I love the palm shelfs... of course im not clostrophobic either... :)

[k98k792]

Do a side by side comparison,you'll see.

[jfowl31]

if youre talking about side by side on sandbags and bipod... I have. I cant stand shooting off bags unless Im shooting a bolt action deer rifle or something.

Its way too frustrating to me to have to take out a high-cap mag to shoot on a rest, or have to pile up 4 sand bags to shoot with a 20 rounder in... it defeats the purpose of stability to have that much crap stacked up to shoot off of. I just extend the legs on my bipod where I want em and where the mag clears my shooting surface fine, and Ive never had trouble with bouncing of any kind on my semi-autos. I can see my impacts with the Cetme... and thats plenty for me. This ar better be even lower recoil that the cetme since its a bull barrel and 223...........

i dunno... just never been a "sandbag" kinda guy.

[k98k792]

Bro that is cool. Whatever you want to do.
I am just saying that if you want to get that last little bit of maximum accuracy,you won't do it with a bipod from the bench.
They do bounce,even if you don't notice it shooting the CETME
The CETME is not a match grade weapon, so the results of that do not really apply to our discussion..

Go to the range and look what the guys that are shooting all their rounds into one hole.They will not be using a bipod.

You don't agree,no problem, that is why they make chocolate and vanilla. Good luck, honestly ,I hope it works out for you.

Let me add I am building an AR in the A2 config with the non detachable carry handle. I am going to put a scope on a Delta mount,and add a Delta cheekpiece. I understand a flat top would be more accurate,but I just like the look of the Delta setup.
So, I get where you are coming from.