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SteelCore
04-16-2007, 09:39 AM
Violence is important, as shown throughout history. It is necessary, and the threat of violence is what the Framers ensured that we could use against tyranny when they came up with the 2nd Amendment.

In today's cleansed and PC'ed society, people really have an aversion to violence or weapons. However, they neglect to see the violence that is exerted to enable them to have these feeble thoughts, live that comfy life, and bascially become a fleshy robot consumer.

Here's some food for thought:

Violence is essential for civilization
The notion of title, or right of ownership, is an invention of communal understanding. So when a community defends title it is defending its understanding. And this violent defence is not just necessary for the idea of title, but for all of a community's beliefs. If a community is to assert itself then it must be ready and able to use violence: wage war. The blessing of Roman civilization was only obtained for the world by the military might of Roman arms. Pax Romana rested upon the ability and determination of the Roman people to inflict terrible violence upon all who opposed them. The Roman Empire was built by the murder and intimidation of all those peoples who resisted Roman rule, and this was done by the example of wholesale slaughter of such peoples (barbarians). The consul Julius Caesar in his campaign against Germans who had invaded Gaul in 55 BC, slaughtered four hundred and sixty thousand men women and children; virtually exterminating the Tenchteri and Usipetes. But from the time the Romans revealed reluctance to inflict irresistible violence upon the barbarians, their empire was doomed. In AD 376 the emperor Valens had to choose between allowing the barbarous Gothic nation to be slaughtered by the Huns on the banks of the Danube, or accede to their pathetic pleas for mercy and admit them into the Roman Empire. He chose to be merciful and paid for this mistake with his life. The rescued Goths quickly changed from refugees to invaders and destroyed the Roman army at the battle of Hadrianople in AD 378. The victors then proceeded to lay waste the Roman Empire and eventually became the new rulers of Italy.

Violence is essential for existence
Western (European) civilization was built upon its ability to inflict overwhelming violence upon all other communities. English speakers dominated it because the English speaking community successfully mastered by war, or threat, all the other European nations. However the citizens of the West have become like those citizens of the declining Roman Empire, they have lost their courage and recoil with repugnance from the essential tool of violence. They no longer use violence to discipline their children, punish criminals or defend their community, so they suffer the consequences. Uncontrolled children become unmanageable citizens, unpunished criminals bring widespread crime, and unresisted invaders eventually conquer the land. (Anyone who wishes to see a part of Australia conquered by Asians—circa 2002— has just to visit Cabramatta in Sydney). By abandoning violence as a legitimate response by authority, we are abandoning our ability to exist.

Violence is the way an understanding asserts itself
Violence is the way an understanding asserts itself, so if authority recoils from violence, it recoils from imposing control. This failure to impose clear control allows any and every citizen to behave as they see fit, and obtains disorder with its inevitable eruptions of violence. So by pretending that violence solves nothing our community has changed from a peaceful community that controls its violence, into a community that is more dangerous to its citizens than to its enemies.

More here:
http://www.users.bigpond.com/smartboard/violence.htm

k98k792
04-16-2007, 10:01 AM
Interesting theory.
It makes me think of Oswald Spengler and his book "Decline of the West"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oswald_Spengler

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oswald_Spengler

SteelCore
04-16-2007, 10:13 AM
A lotta stuff on the other parts of the site is "decline of the West" based, although I don't buy it meself. Decline and rise are always happening, or not happening, and those perceptions are largely colored by the individual who is making the claim.

I do agree with the assertion of violence (such as war) to be a tool for humanity to keep tyrannous forces in check. Even the ammoral or immoral in a society can understand that there are repurcussions for 'bad' acts--even if the immoral person can't/won't understand why eating ppl is 'wrong', they know there will be repurcussions.

The tricky part is that "bad" and "wrong" are almost fads of a society. In the 20's alcohol was bad. In 1910, opiates were not 'bad' and were over-the-counter meds, and cocaine was in coca cola.

The big ones tho, like murder and othr human rights violations, seem to be the same for much longer.

k98k792
04-16-2007, 10:26 AM
I would tend to agree, force is a neccesary way for a culture to express it's world view.
That is why I feel our problems in the Middle East will end up being a much greater war. A clash between the West and Islam. As I see it one will go under.

iocane
04-16-2007, 10:41 AM
I actually think we are being conned by the so called no violence crowd. I think a few of them really beleive in that nonsense. Still the evidence seems to suggest that many of them really actually beleive in a monopoly on violence. So they can stab us in the back and we have no means of defense. They also see the law abiding American citizen as the threat that needs to be squashed. Their ideology following the idea that dictatorships overseas really just want to help America with its freedom problem.

SteelCore
04-16-2007, 10:57 AM
"problems in the Middle East will end up being a much greater war. A clash between the West and Islam."
-->IMHO, 9/11 was the beginning of WWIII...we just fight small wars (read the US smallwars manual) thus not causing a wider evergrowing conflict that overtaxes a buncha countries.

"As I see it one will go under."
-->The west and Islam clash about very 700yrs, in my historic research. 700ad, 1400ad, and next up: 2100ad. Each time, the West lost ground, spent time rebuilding and militarizing, then early exterminated them. Once ppl scream 'genocide' instead of 'jihad' ppl lightn up and let them off the hook.

Hopefully we'll do it right this time, since Islamo-fascism and Liberalism have the same goals: rob the indivifual of freedoms and establish a dictatorship.

Since the beginning of Islam, its goal has always been total global domination. Since its incept, it has been unrelenting in that aim. Hopefully, someone besides me wil note that, and realize that some ppl just 'need killin.':hammered:

Cecil6304
04-16-2007, 05:00 PM
The right and wrong were given to Moses. Of course any posting or mention of the "Big Ten" is banned in political or public life. Now pop culture seems to determine what is acceptable.
Just my 2cts.