CETME Sporter wont cycle correctly

[sta1ker]

Hello, All

I did some searching on here for a few hours and was unable to find someone with the same issue I am having so I decided to post a new thread. I recently bought a Cetme Sporter .308 from a local gun/pawn shop. As soon as I got it home I cleaned it and cleaned it and cleaned it and it was so grungy that I ran out of cleaning supplies. The next day I took it to the range and fired a few rounds the first few rounds fired fine then it jammed. When the bolt went forward it dented the casing still in the magazine as it loaded the next shell. So it was trying to put a new shell in yet smashing a live one still in the magazine. I released the magazine fired that shell removed the dented one from the magazine. And tried again same thing happened. Only this time the empty casing was jammed in and the shell in the casing got dented just like the other one. If needed I can post pictures after I get to the range and show exactly how it’s jamming but unsure how safe it is. If I put just 1 round in the magazine at a time it fires fine. I have tried it with 3 separate magazines and the same all around. I can also post pictures of the dented rounds if needed. On a side note as you can tell when I bought this gun it was pre-painted buy the previous owner. How does one take this paint off without harming the bluing under it?
http://www.sta1ker.net/gun.jpg

[rustypirate]

Try swapping out magazines for some G3 ones.

[rep30cal]

Welcome to the site and I will tell you this, with a little patience you will be happy with your rifle. They can be really finicky but once they are sorted out they run like a top.

[jettag]

rear sight?

Homegrown or what?

If you want/need a G3 mag to test with, I'll give you one...E-me:thumbup:

[Bluedog]

There is no blueing under that paint. Just more paint, over park. You can lightly sand it and repaint it satin black with High temp krylon, after a THOROUGH degreasing, or have it blasted and reparked.

[Smokehouse69]

Doubt there is anything under the paint but more paint. I don't think CIA blued any of their firearms.
My best advice to you is to shoot only Mil Surplus 7.62x51 Nato ammo, it has a + in a circle on the bottom of it. Don't feed it a steady diet of commercial .308, you will eventually get a case separation and need to get a broken case extractor to get it out.
Winchester makes some white box ammo that is marked "7.62mm 147grn full metal jacket" I will post a pic of the box, they also make a white box .308, it is not the same stuff.
Then read do a search on bolt gap and checking it. If you have a CIA Cetme, there is no telling what your bolt gap is. That will effect all sorts of functioning of the problems if not right.
Clean the chamber, then clean it again, make sure the flutes in the champer are clean and there is no oil in the chamber before you fire it.

[nevada]

I had that problem with mine, some others have too. If I remember correctly ( a 50/50 chance ) the ejector lever was pushing the bolt up so it ran over the round instead of loading it. I ground it down a very little bit. I then had a broken extractor spring which, upon replacement, smoothed everything out. Don't ask me why because a Cetme will throw empty case out with no extractor at all installed. Don't give up. They got mine running.

[sta1ker]

Let me just say thank you for such a quick response all of you are extremely helpful. Thank you.

I just tore it down again tonight after i got home took some pictures of the bolt and trigger area don't know if they will help but we will see once i get them up.
I tried to cycle it with out anything in the magazine or gun and it hangs up on the magazine empty. it took four or five hand cycles and it finally road over the empty magazine is this common? is it the magazines i am using or a worn out component? either way i just ordered a new G3 mag off CTD. but thanks for the offer Jettag i also just ordered there leapers claw scope mount i read some horror stories about people over tightening them and the bolt sticking back. even with all the troubles it worth the monies i spent on it and trading in the SKS.

yet again thanks for the help.

[Otis61]

Don't put the scope mount on till you get this figured out. Did you find out what you bolt gap is? That should be first. Then if your in spec make sure that the front of your bolt carrier is not touching your coking handle support piece when the bolt is completely closed. (that little sleeve inside the cocking tube) You should be able to wiggle the handle, and the support about the distance of the thickness of a dime. Like smokehouse said that will eliminate a lot of problems. I don't think that is your problem, but still that is first.
After you do that I would investigate what nevada was talking about. Or it could be the mag, and your getting one to check that. Keep us posted.:thumbup:

[97th Signalman]

It sounds to me like the mag might be sitting too high in the rifle. Or, the ejector is too high. Does it look as though the someone had filed the edge of the mag well? Or the mag catch might be too high. Or, as others suggested, you need to try G3 mags.

After checking your bolt gap (for safety, not for this issue), try a visual check. With an empty mag in the rifle, ease the bolt forward while looking at the bolt face through the ejection port. Does the bolt have to depress the ejector or ride up over it as the bolt moves forward. Does the bolt catch anywhere on the rear edge of the empty mag? (The lower portion of the bolt face should pass through the square notch in the top rear of the mag without actually making contact)
Get yourself some dummy .308 rounds and repeat the visual check above to see just how the bolt picks up the round out of the mag as it moves forward.

Knowing the answers to these questions might help us to diagnose the problem.

Oh, and as others said, Century parkerized these rifles, then painted them. Remoming the paint will leave a bare parkerized finish that will take paint well. Use a stripper rather than sanding and you wont damage the parkerizing. If you are going to that much trouble, use a proven gun paint like gunkote, or something similar for a tough, long lasting finish.

[drine]

Can't wait for pics of the rear sight. Your problem seems to have been answered already. The mag is too high for whatever reason. The ejector could also be an issue.

[rep30cal]

I have not ran into this problem before so cut me some slack here ,but if the bolt is smashing a dent into the side of the round that is still in the mag wouldn't the mag be too low? I would think that the bolt missing the rim of the brass and then hitting he brass farther up the body would mean that the mag is low since the rounds in the mag are tilted so the rim is lower than the bullet end.

[SteelCore]

It sounds like maybe the previous owner 'over-fixed' the opposite problem by either over-grinding the magwell or filing on the mag retainer in the magwell.

The best way to see it is something I think Rusty or Okie came up with: Disaddemble a mag and take off the spring, follower, floorplate. Insert this mag body into the magwell. Pull back the charging handle, then look thru the bottom of the mag body you inserted into the magwell ans slowly let the bolt down. you should be able to see what the bottom of the bolt and carrier are doing.

[sta1ker]

Hey guys i got more pics im not sure if they will be helpful. i also have a pic that kinda shows the rear sight in all its horrid glory. i dint have anything to check the bolt gap with but with the bolt locked forward i i used 2 sheets of paper and the barly slid in they were pretty snug. i dint have anything else to check it with. im kinda at a stand still till my mags arrive. i have pictures of pretty much all the internals if they would be needed to assist in finding out the problem let me know


http://sta1ker.net/gunpics/Picture013.jpg

This is a picture of where the bolt catches. i let it slide forward slowly and this is where it locks if i hit the buttstock hardenough sometimes it slids forward.


http://sta1ker.net/gunpics/Picture002.jpg

Here is a picture of the bolt face. not sure if it helps any just throwing it out there.


http://sta1ker.net/gunpics/Picture009.jpg

Where the red arrow is pointing that is where i checked for the gap if this is not the correct place please let me know cause i feel like a idiot if its not.


Just like to say again thanks for the help. and ill get more pics up soon.

[rustypirate]

OK, first, you checked the gap in the right place, just get some feeler guages from a local auto parts store, and make sure they go from .0005 to .025

Second, when releasing the bolt, you never want to release it slowly. Lock the bolt to the rear with the charging handle in the notch of the cocking tube, then "slap" it out of the notch and let it slam foreard. This is the correct method, and it should not hang up like that again.

You will want to pull the bolt back like you have it there and watch as the ejector rides up in the slot cut into the bottom of the bolt head to make sure that it is riding up high enough to impact with the spent cartridge and flick it out the ejection port. If it is riding too low a shim will be necessary between the grip frame and receiver shelf.

Other things to look at are the recoil guide (make sure it is straight) and also the clearance of the bolt carrier inside of the receiver to make sure that the paint overspray inside the receiver is not causing it to bind.

[nevada]

AlumahydeII from Brownells is good paint and doesn't need oven curing.

[97th Signalman]

I have not ran into this problem before so cut me some slack here ,but if the bolt is smashing a dent into the side of the round that is still in the mag wouldn't the mag be too low? I would think that the bolt missing the rim of the brass and then hitting he brass farther up the body would mean that the mag is low since the rounds in the mag are tilted so the rim is lower than the bullet end.

You have a point there. The mag might be too low if the bolt is skipping over the rim, and impacting the side of the top round while it is still in the mag. One again, with an empty mag in an empty rifle, ease the bolt forward and see how the bolt passes the mag...it should pretty much fill the square notch at the top rear of the mag without touching the mag. If the bolt hits the mag, the mag is too high. If the bolt clears the mag and hardly enters the notch at the top rear of the mag, then the mag is too low. If it passes through the notch snugly but without touching the mag it is probably just about right (though the angle could be wrong). Tell us what it looks like when you check it in the manner suggested.

[sta1ker]

Hello All

This weekend my G3 mags arrived and as well as some 7.62 nato rounds and she fired like a champ. no jam at all. i used the 7.62 rounds in the old mags and dint seam to run to bad you could hear a rubbing noise so i switched back to the g3 mag but she fired 40 rounds with no issues at all. so Thank you all for your help. on a side note is it safe to soak the barrel in paint thinner? i want to take that paint off and unsure whats the best method? sanding? then thinner? just curious if thinner will hurt barrel or any other metal item on there. yet thanks again for all your help.

[SteelCore]

The paint thinner should be fine, just clean the bbl thoroughly after the soak so you don;t get dissolved paint in there.