Cetme Smith???

[RIGID04]

I'm looking for a good CETME or H&K smith. Currently in NY I can't find one. My CETME project, thanks to the advise and wisdom on this board, is just about to the point where I don't feel comfortable working on it. I am mechanically inclined, and that is as far as it goes. No-where near any of you guys on here. I call it "tinkering for therapy". There is only so much I can do with a Dremill. The kit has been basically mocked up, and all the welding needs to be done.

The problem I'm facing is the advise I'm getting from machine shops. Like, silver soldering the whole rifle. I might be wrong but how is silver solder as strong as TIG.

I tried getting in contact with BIG50 (Mark), but no luck there. Are there any good HK smiths still out there, without the 6 month turn around???? I really can't wait till range day.

Thanks again for all the advise. My project is lookin good.

[mprtech]

[QUOTE=RIGID04;12827]

The problem I'm facing is the advise I'm getting from machine shops. Like, silver soldering the whole rifle. I might be wrong but how is silver solder as strong as TIG.

QUOTE]

Silver solder is no where in the same category as MIG or TIG. Scary machine shops in your area. Someone will chime in with a good smith.

Investment grade firearms is the only real G3/CETME smith I know of.

[richl]

TIG ONLY !!!!!!!! i have built many and solder is only good for electronics........

any ??? e mail me and I'll help ya

[cimmaronkid]

No need to spend a bundle at a smith's operation. Remember, when these were originally built, the receiver was spot welded to the trunion. Find a small body shop in your area or a muffler shop and tell them what you want done. If you bring it in ready to weld with the witness marks in place so all they have to do is weld, they will probably charge you something like $20. :wohow: These guys weld daily, are very good at it, and are famaliar with welding thin metal. Besides, all the ones I have ever met like firearms.:icon_smile:

[RIGID04]

i appreciate all the words of encouragement. Thanks for the help.

[M1 Tanker]

High Temperatue silver solder, like those sold at Brownells, can be used for many things firearm related. Many of us attached muzzle brakes this way during the AWB with ATF's approval. The high temp stuff requires 1100 degrees to get it to flow, so you need Mapp gas. I've seen M19191a4 Barrel shrouds soldered in place too. Don't underestimate how strong this stuff is...this isn't the stuff you use on electronics. It comes in a paste you rub on and then heat it until it flows, which will be when the part is red.

I'm not saying do your Cetme this way, but I'm just showing the hi temp stuff is very strong.

[rpmfly2]

High Temperatue silver solder, like those sold at Brownells, can be used for many things firearm related. Many of us attached muzzle brakes this way during the AWB with ATF's approval. The high temp stuff requires 1100 degrees to get it to flow, so you need Mapp gas. I've seen M19191a4 Barrel shrouds soldered in place too. Don't underestimate how strong this stuff is...this isn't the stuff you use on electronics. It comes in a paste you rub on and then heat it until it flows, which will be when the part is red.

I'm not saying do your Cetme this way, but I'm just showing the hi temp stuff is very strong.

Silver hold great and has a high strenght bond for stainless steel also! There are a ton of specs online and I used it on my first G3 build with SS Century Rec and it works great! It flows around the pieces being attached and covers more area than a spot type weld with tig or mig.

[jfowl31]

I thought I always remembered you guys talking about silver soldering stuff on the Cetme, and when I mentioned it on gunboards, one of the expert builders said that in order to heat the metal enough to get High temp solder to run, it would anneal the trunnion and or any other parts...

I know Perro talks highly of soldering... maybe this belongs in a new thread?

[Big Steve]

Cetme tripple clamps are soldered to the barrels originaly. The century monkeys put a big mig tack weld on them after they heated them up to try to fix the sights. :century:
Steve

[rpmfly2]

Cetme tripple clamps are soldered to the barrels originaly. The century monkeys put a big mig tack weld on them after they heated them up to try to fix the sights. :century:
Steve

get into it and be efficient at finishing and using a heat sink. It is easier to repair and easy to work to get the required finish. I found the stainless cast receivers to be very hard material and very durable. With the size of the trunion and a heat sink and a small tip acetylene torch you can do a quick strong weld that flows further than the mig or tig to cover more connective surface area. Works great for me any way!

[RIGID04]

you guys are great!! I wish i had 1/2 the knowledge you guys have. I talked the machine shop who originally suggested silver solder and they said they would stand by any soldering done there...including medical bills...should this rifle blow up in my face :) i'm gunna do more research.

[okie shooter]

RIGID04, Silver solders advantage is you get a huge surface area bonded, the stuff is not a metal melting but more like a huge glue(I know it sounds weird, but the solder fills the voids between the two metals) thus you get alot of bond between the two surfaces.

Remember the orginal trunions were only spot welded to the receivers any way as I have been told. I havent been wanting to get that much into my rifles anyway, but all the receiver does besides protecting you incase of any problems is hold the butt stock assembly to handle the recoil energy of the rifle. The lockup is in the trunion vs the bolt head/rollers.

Which you choose is up to you and YMMV.

[rustypirate]

The junction between the cocking tube and the receiver should be welded bacause of the force exerted between the cocking tube, charging handle and bolt carrier when unlocking the bolt.

Also there is quite a lot of energy released onto the trunion from the bolt carrier slamming home into the trunion.

Silver solder may well work, but I personally will stick to welding these things togeather.

[Seattlefungus]

I have a 2 CETME's, and a HK91. The 91 is spot welded at the trunion. All the cocking tubes are welded. JLD PTR91 uses the trunion spot welds on their rifles. I due believe the FAC aluminum receiver uses a polymer bond as welding steel to the receiver is not possible due to the material. The AGI gunsmith video shows making one of the FAC rifles from the defunct FAC kit and they used lock tight to bond the cocking tube...If i recall correctly, it's been a while sence I watched that...

[Perro]

reguarding the aluminum FAC receiver

the trunnion is attached to the aluminum receiver by drilling a hole through the receiver, and the trunnion (1 on each side) and driving pins through those holes

and the cocking tube is held on by a special cap that has a set screw in it

nothing more needed - they may have used a bonding agent in the ati vid, but it isnt needed if you followed the directions of the kit.

silver solder is strong if done correctly - much stronger than most people think.


if you still want a quality smith, at a very fair price, i cannot recommend big50 enough. He does the best quality work ive ever seen, a bit faster, and cheaper than the rest

www.big50hk.com

[kevin]

ive sent him two emails. I was hoping he could press and pin a barrel and weld the trunion and cocking tube for me or do the whole build. Havent heard back from him

ive got 3 kits i want to get built before 2008

[Perro]

call him on the number listed
Mark is a genuinely NICE guy

find out when he is scheduled to reopen

[Tom Doniphon]

Mark Galla AKA Big50 is not currently accepting any kind of work. He has been busy with family and just does not have time right now. You could try Jayson at Investment Grade firearms or Gunplumber at Arizona Response Systems.

[omegajim2k]

Aeroquip and HK both agree that silver solder is the best way to attach two parts. Aeroquip is the main contractor to the US Armed Forces for hoses,fittings and related parts that keep our boys moving and safe. HK silver solders ALL the front triple frames on the G3/HK91. I tend to want to go along with what the OEM wants, it works. By the way, my CAI centerion99 had a welded triple frame-it cracked after 1500 rds. I'm a master fabricator/welder of 22yrs. and have alot of experience with this. Also going through the Penn-Foster Gunsmith school. I recommend it highly.