308 recipe for reload

[SSwee]

This is a recipe for 308 given to me by an old timer that shoots comp. and is very familiar with military weaponry. Anyone have comments or suggestions on this combo. I already have CCI #34 NATO spec primers and was looking for some cheaper lead but haven't gotten the lead yet.
TIA
SS


Hodgedon BLC2
Start out with 46 grain powder
Was recommended 48 grain
Max load 48.7 grain

Federal 210 primers

150 grain Sierra BT

[WildBillCody]

Never tried that powder, and what type of cases, with that much powder they must be commercial.

[SSwee]

I was told that the powder was designed originally for the military. A replacement for some other. I can't remember the details right now. I am going shooting with him tomorrow and I'll get him to tell me again. I thought it was something to do with the powder form. I specified using military brass. I went to the Hodgden site and it showed the right pressures on their calculator.
SS

[Jacobite]

BLC2 was used for 7.62x51. The surplus designation is WCC846. It is a ball powder that meters very well.

[NavajoNPaleFace]

BLC2 was used for 7.62x51. The surplus designation is WCC846. It is a ball powder that meters very well.

Medium speed burner that is pretty clean as well.

[86thecat]

Speer #16 manual says 40.0 gn of BL-C2 gives 2372 fps to start and max 44.0 gns at 2607 fps using IMI military cases and CCI magnum primers for their 150 grain bullets. I'd be careful going above 44 gns.

[SSwee]

This is what the Hodgedon site showed. Is it that common to run into conflicting info?
You say with magnum primers. Does it make a difference with the NATO spec primers CCI#34

Cartridge: 308 Winchester
Load Type: Rifle
Bullet Weight (Gr.) Order BW Powder Bullet Diam. C.O.L.
150 GR. NOS BT 150 BL-C(2) .308 2.800"



Starting load - Grs. 45 Vel. (ft/s) 2661 Pressure 40,200 CUP


Max load - Grs. 48 Vel. (ft/s) 2839 Pressure 50,000 CUP

[86thecat]

Reloading data seems to vary quite a bit at times, different batches of powder, primers, brass and barrels (not to mention temperature and maybe even phase of the moon) all play a part. If I remember correctly CCI 34's are considered magnum primers and are harder.
As mentioned earlier the thicker military cases will make a difference in pressure and max load. The Speer #13 manual 308 data was developed in a military case so it's a good place to start. If not experienced reading pressure signs in one of these rifles it may be prudent to stay conservative. A little time with a chronograph would be a good thing, most sources say not to exceed max load or max velocity.
7.62x51 internal case size and max pressure are not the same as .308 so if the data says 308 loads would usually be higher.

[SSwee]

Appreciate all the info.
SS

[ditchtiger]

Using BLC2 in my CETME. Military case, Winchester standard primer,150gr.FMJ, 44grs. BLC2. This is just blasting ammo, a lighter charge does not cycle reliably. Used 43grs. in my FAL and it was still cycling with the gas regulator wide open.

[40mmHEDP]

dicthtiger,

Your CETME should be able to cycle with a substaintialy lighter load than that 44g of BLC-2. Mine runs well on alot lighter load. I've used alot of that power and now I'm on to aa2230 that I also run at a much lower pressure. The only trouble I have with cycling is when I go real low for cast bullets.

[winky]

I use 42 grains of wc846 or H335 with a ball bullet in military brass and my gun runs a 100percent with it. Any more and i get very deep flute marks and you might as well toss the brass. I cant see why your guns are taking more as mine runs great with 22 grains of wc820 (which is aa9) and a 170 cast lyman bullet velocity is about 1900 fps and brass piles up surprisingly close but it does run well through the gun. Ill have a failure to feed about every 200 rounds but Id guess its more in the magazines then anything As ive marked them everytime ive had a misfeed and its just 2 out of the 12 mags i have that have done it.

[ditchtiger]

I rebuilt my CETME when this used to be the CETME Rifle site. Maybe the new recoil spring is stronger than normal, new hammer spring also. Bolt gap is .012 with new rollers. Extractor and spring new also. Rifle has no brake or suppressor. At 43grs. BLC2, 1 or 2 shells out of 20 failed to clear ejection port and next round was not stripped off with any mag I used. Rifle works with SA ammo and is a joy to shoot. I polished inside the receiver and made sure the bolt was not hanging up at all before I learned how to repair CETMEs. the chamber is nice and brite, spent shells resize and reload fine. No flute damage on shells from exessive pressure, no blown or cratered primers.

[winky]

maybe it has something to do with your new spring. The biggest problem i have with mine even with running lighter loads then you is finding my brass. It throws them into the next county!

[jerrymrc]

Having worked up about 40 loads for the Fal I have noticed that with BLC-2 it seems to like a hot load.

My benchmark is AFF-91 and it will consistently give me a 99 4-5X on a standard 200 HP target from a rest for 10 shots.

45gr BLC-2 AFF-91 brass #34 primers 147 FN bullets. Good group but a little to the right.

45.5 and as above gives an even tighter group but at 2 O'Clock.

My best load that replicates the AFF-91 @ 200 yards is:

41.3gr AA 2460 AFF-91 cases WLR primers and the FN 147gr bullets. A person could sub LC cases and be in the same ballpark.

Just some more food for thought.

[SSwee]

jerrymrc,
How much difference is there just in the primers? WLR vs #34

I'm asking about the primers because most the load data shows using the WLR or 210 but not the #34 and I saw something the other day about them being hotter. I haven't seen much load data if any using the #34 primers or a chart showing interchange. I probably just have not looked in the right place. Appreciate if you could enlighten me or point me in the right direction.

SS

[jerrymrc]

jerrymrc,
How much difference is there just in the primers? WLR vs #34

I'm asking about the primers because most the load data shows using the WLR or 210 but not the #34 and I saw something the other day about them being hotter. I haven't seen much load data if any using the #34 primers or a chart showing interchange. I probably just have not looked in the right place. Appreciate if you could enlighten me or point me in the right direction.

SS

My results tell me that on the .308 loads it is .5 to 1gr change to equal the same FPS. Some powders respond better to the 34's than others.

BLC-2, WC846 almost demand a hot primer as smaller loads become erratic. Many others like Varget AA2460 and IMR 4895 are predictable when you change primers and loads. YMMV.

[Geilt]

Having worked up about 40 loads for the Fal I have noticed that with BLC-2 it seems to like a hot load.

My benchmark is AFF-91 and it will consistently give me a 99 4-5X on a standard 200 HP target from a rest for 10 shots.

45gr BLC-2 AFF-91 brass #34 primers 147 FN bullets. Good group but a little to the right.

45.5 and as above gives an even tighter group but at 2 O'Clock.

My best load that replicates the AFF-91 @ 200 yards is:

41.3gr AA 2460 AFF-91 cases WLR primers and the FN 147gr bullets. A person could sub LC cases and be in the same ballpark.

Just some more food for thought.


When you say AFF-91 brass are you talking about the Aussie 7.62 Nato round or is that another brand of brass. I am asking because I am pretty sure Aussie brass is berdan primed and CCI #34 primers are boxer style primers. How are you safely getting boxer primers seated in a pocket designed for berdan primers?

[Geilt]

jerrymrc,
How much difference is there just in the primers? WLR vs #34

I'm asking about the primers because most the load data shows using the WLR or 210 but not the #34 and I saw something the other day about them being hotter. I haven't seen much load data if any using the #34 primers or a chart showing interchange. I probably just have not looked in the right place. Appreciate if you could enlighten me or point me in the right direction.

SS

You're typical reloading information for .308win will most likely not include CCI #34 primers as they are intended for reloading to military spec. With 308win being a civilian round the rounds in the reloading manuals are worked up using civilian components. Some of the better reloading manuals, well at least ones that include 7.62x51, will use #34 primers. I believe the Hornady manual is an example of one that does. I'll have to check this when I get home tonight.

[pigpen]

maybe it has something to do with your new spring. The biggest problem i have with mine even with running lighter loads then you is finding my brass. It throws them into the next county!

I use an old 10x12ft tarp that I hang a few feet in front of & to the right of my firing position to stop my brass from getting lost.


OFF TOPIC
For those of you who have reloaded a lot of cetme brass, how many loads do you get from a case before you have to trash it?

[Geilt]

I use an old 10x12ft tarp that I hang a few feet in front of & to the right of my firing position to stop my brass from getting lost.


OFF TOPIC
For those of you who have reloaded a lot of cetme brass, how many loads do you get from a case before you have to trash it?

I have been able to get between zero and six reloads per case. It really depends on how bad the case is dented during ejection. The case manufacturer also makes a difference. For instances, Winchester and Remmington brass seems to go hit the scrap bucket first while Federal and Nato spec brass lasts longer.

[pigpen]

I started feeling guilty about shooting my surplus so I started reloading for 762nato not too long ago. When I got the dies I also got a bullet mold for 8mm so I have been experimenting with casting & have not shot enough of my 762nato to reload twice fired brass yet. I hop I can get 6 loads out of the brass I can find that ain't eat up too bad. That would make me happy. Thanx gelit.

[Geilt]

Ejector dents and split case mouths are the bane of my reloading for the Cetmes. Using cases with a thicker case mouth (and not doing a super tight crimp) helps address the second problem. The frist requires a port buffer... hard to find and expensive at this point.

[jerrymrc]

When you say AFF-91 brass are you talking about the Aussie 7.62 Nato round or is that another brand of brass. I am asking because I am pretty sure Aussie brass is berdan primed and CCI #34 primers are boxer style primers. How are you safely getting boxer primers seated in a pocket designed for berdan primers?

Some AFF-88 and ALL AFF-91/92 is boxer primed.

All other years of ADI/AFF is Berdan. I started with Hirt then Port. The SA was better than the Port in my guns. Then came 93 and the Aussie ammo. In 95 we discovered that the AFF-91/92 was boxer primed. Later we have found that some of the AFF-88 is boxer but no other years.

In 95 seeing what was going to take place with the surplus ammo I was buying all the AFF-91 I could but that was kind of hard because until you open the crate and open a box you have no way of knowing what year it is.

I like the AFF brass better than LC and I still have a bit of 91 surplus put away. :wink:

[Geilt]

Count yourself as lucky. I have about 1700 rounds of AFF left and pretty dang sure its all berdan primed. I've sent about 25 cases off to Rep30 to figure out a way to get the primers out. He's figured out a way but has as of yet been able to get out and try shooting his reloads.

Hopefully I'm not sitting on 1700 rounds of one-shot fun.