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bladeworks123
12-04-2009, 05:52 PM
Many have expressed interest in using the HK weld on shell deflectors. For those of you building, they are money well spent and well worth the extra work to put one on. HK designed them to be put on by cutting out the rear of the ejection port. However, many were installed as retrofits to issued weapons, and were installed without making the cuts. If they are installed the way they were designed to be, they make a huge difference in how brass is ejected and almost eliminates mangled brass from it hitting the sharp edge of the stock rifle port. Mine drop my brass forward and down at about two o'clock and five to eight feet out, and I rarely see any dented cases. Here are some tips and things I discovered when I started putting them on.

First, the positioning has to be correct. The edge of the shell deflector "wing" needs to be centered directly above the rear edge of the mag well...I use a welding magnet on the back of the mag well and a stright edge to scribe a line on the receiver for locating the cuts.
17238

Once you get the location set you can transfer the outline of the recesses on the back of the shell deflector and beginning trimming with a dremel mounted with a cut off wheel.
17237

If you look at the back of the deflector you will see the indentations that are intended for the receiver to lay into to to allow the deflector to set tight against the receiver. Also note that the deflector is recessed to fit over the reinforcing rib on the side of the receiver. You can make a template of this outline with a piece of masking tape,,,,,,
17239

Transfer the outline to the receiver so that the top edge follows the line of the top of the ejection port and the bottom comes out aligned at the rear corner.
17240

Take your time and work the cuts to fit the deflector so it will lay down close to the side of the receiver.
17241

The shell defletor should fit like this one, with the deflector lined up nice and straight with the port and tight against the receiver.
17242

After you get your fit right, clamp it into place. I use machine wire wrapped around the receiver and the deflector to hold the deflector in place and then lightly tack weld it into place in three points. First the top front, check for alignment. Second the bottom rear, and check for alignment. Third, tack weld in between the first two welds at the top corner.
17243

HK only utilized the three tack welds to hold it in place, and you can too. But I'm anal about cosmetics and decided to filet weld mine on and dress the welds up for a cleaner look. If you do that be sure to use as low a heat as you can to get a good weld. Keep a heat sink underneath and clamped to prevent warping. Go slow, keeping it as cool as possible, then dress the welds up with a sanding drum or stone on your dremel.
17244

Here's a couple more pics of how they turn out after having the welds dressed up and bead blasted.

17245 17246 17247

k98k792
12-04-2009, 06:21 PM
Great tutorial! It's a sticky.

WildBillCody
12-04-2009, 06:55 PM
Great welds, did you do that?

bladeworks123
12-04-2009, 07:21 PM
Yes I did, thanks....

bladeworks123
12-04-2009, 07:53 PM
I think the rifles look better when the welds are dressed up and bead blasted. You just need to be sure that the welds are good.

earls
12-04-2009, 09:26 PM
Great tutorial. Thanks for taking the time to do it.

Schmitty
12-04-2009, 09:58 PM
Sweet tutorial.

That forearm wood is SEXY. :thumbup:

Gopher
12-07-2009, 12:49 PM
OK, Stupid question. What did you use for a heat sink and where did you locate it in the receiver?

bladeworks123
12-07-2009, 07:31 PM
I have a piece of 3/4 diameter aluminum rod for the cocking tube and rear sight base welds that I used in the charging tube part of the receiver and I had a scrap piece of 1" aluminum square bar that I contoured one side on a belt grinder to fit tight against the inside wall of the receiver above the rail. I also used a heavy bead of hydro gel around the outside of the area on one of my builds but it didn't seem to be of much use so I didn't use it on the second one I did.

Gopher
12-08-2009, 08:42 AM
Thanks bladeworks, I have a very skilled sheetmetal worker with a TIG willing to try this modification but that was the first question he asked.

bladeworks123
12-08-2009, 11:28 AM
If he has it he could also use a 3/4 copper rod, just make sure it is solid copper and not copper clad steel. You just need a sink there to help pull the heat away if you are going to do a solid weld instead of just the spot welds, since you are welding so close to the port. It will warp some if you are not careful, and if you look at the pics you will see that there is not much clearance betweeen the deflector and the bolt carrier when you are done. The rod also keeps the receiver from bowing from any heat induced shrinkage that might happen. Since he has welded sheet metal he knows about the metal drawing up from the heat. I think this was probably part of the reason so many of the retrofit rifles were done without cutting the receiver. That defeats the purpose I think by leaving the sharp rolled edge of the old port there. That rolled edge on the original port is what whacks the beejeezus out of your cases and sends them rocketing.

Buelligan
02-13-2010, 10:22 PM
BLADE , did you make a piece of rubber that fits on to the shell deflector ?

bladeworks123
02-13-2010, 11:33 PM
Yes, but I haven't done any field testing yet. I have the sizing and shape ready for laser cutting them, but I want to bounce a couple hundred rounds off of one to see how it holds up and how effective it is. They are 3/16" medium hard density rubber. I'm also working on one for the FAL and the AR platforms to just protect rifle finish from brass kisses also. Here's the Hk prototype installed.....

The Great 308
02-14-2010, 12:03 AM
Yes, but I haven't done any field testing yet. I have the sizing and shape ready for laser cutting them, but I want to bounce a couple hundred rounds off of one to see how it holds up and how effective it is. They are 3/16" medium hard density rubber. I'm also working on one for the FAL and the AR platforms to just protect rifle finish from brass kisses also. Here's the Hk prototype installed.....

Wow!! :thumbup: That looks great :rockon: Let us know how it works. Also I will probably be interested in a few of these if you plan on selling them. What type of glue or epoxy did you use to attach it to the deflector?

Thanks in advance,
TG308

bladeworks123
02-14-2010, 01:30 AM
The rubber I'm using is adhesive backed, peel and stick. I wanted to try that first so that attaching them won't damage painted finishes. I'm not real happy with the adhesive so far. It holds fairly well, but it will pull off, (about like duct tape) If the rubber holds up is the next test. If it looks like the rubber is going to be long life, and it will be a permanent thing, that won't need replaced regularly, I'll probably clean the surface good and use a gel superglue.

Here's the AR style....

18364
18365


And the FAL style....It's a 2 piece, one on the cover one on the receiver.

18366

Buelligan
02-17-2010, 10:51 AM
BLADE, the wood on you build is WONDERBAR . Did you make it? I just did a nice HACK JOB on cutting the slot for the RTG delector. The weld job will hide it though . Can I trim the long end sticking out ? it sticks out pretty far and i dont know if it needs all of that meat to do its job.

bladeworks123
02-17-2010, 12:23 PM
That wood in the CETMEHk pics came from Big Steve and JDowney, some of that curly maple they had. That thanks goes out for them.:thumbup:

And as far as shorteneing the wing,,,, I'm not sure how much of it is necessary to keep the brass from wrapping around when it hits, but I would think you might be able to trim off some. On mine, the original wing that was the part of the port I cut off, stuck out about 1/4 inch. These stick out almost three times as much. How much of that length is necessary to make the brass rebound forward, would be a guess on my part. I tried to watch how the brass reacts in a video I made of some test firing, but I can't slow the video enough to tell what is really going on there. It happens pretty darned fast. Compared to the deflector on the AR10, they are almost exactly the same height.

bladeworks123
02-17-2010, 01:17 PM
The video of the in shop testing. No interference with ejection so far....
We'll have to see how it holds up to real brass next...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=klFPfWq34rM

eddienyr
02-26-2010, 05:15 PM
Nice work, do you have a tutorial on welding the upper rail
onto the receiver?

bladeworks123
02-26-2010, 06:29 PM
Nice work, do you have a tutorial on welding the upper rail
onto the receiver?

No, I was so excited about getting one of Turbothis rails, that I just fired it on there almost as soon as I got it, so I didn't take any pics, but the rails Turbothis makes are real easy to put on. The bottom of the rail is machined so it straddles the center rib on top of the receiver. Because of that, it pretty much aligns itself down the center line of the receiver, the only thing you need to check before you tack it in place, is to be sure you have it square or level from side to side, which I do by using a small machinists square, off of the sides of the receiver rails....same way I align my rear sight bases on the Hk clones.....

eddienyr
03-02-2010, 06:17 PM
Who is turbothis does he have a web site?

jfowl31
03-02-2010, 06:34 PM
This is his profile...

http://www.militaryfirearm.com/Forum/member.php?u=70

PM here...

http://www.militaryfirearm.com/Forum/private.php?do=newpm&u=70

Its easier if you'll just find his username in the FS section. But if you pm him, I'm sure he'll tell you all you need to know.

sawed12
03-05-2010, 03:15 AM
could we get the pics put backup for the install // thanks

jfowl31
03-05-2010, 03:17 AM
could we get the pics put backup for the install // thanks

Not sure what you're looking for... all the pictures are showing up perfect for me. Is there something else you need pics of?

sawed12
03-05-2010, 03:25 AM
page one no pics

jfowl31
03-05-2010, 03:27 AM
try reloading it.... they are all working. I tried it on my phone, laptop and desktop....... all the pics work. Basically, the problem is on your end for whatever reason.

sawed12
03-05-2010, 03:44 AM
thanks will do

Gopher
04-14-2010, 04:48 PM
Well, I got the deflector welded on my 91 (thanks for the info, Blade) and had the barrelled receiver and 2 grip lowers Duracoated. I put a strip of Velcro on the face of the deflector but I'm still getting case dents so I'll probably have to go to a thick rubber bumper. The deflector throws the cases forward at about 45 degrees and down about 15 degrees. The range I shoot at has a 6 x 6 post right in the path of the spent cases, the cases have marked the post!! You really don't want to be in their path.

Jsquared
04-14-2010, 06:52 PM
Got my deflector in the mail yesterday and can't wait to get it installed! Last time at the range my buddy was trying out my CETME and hit a guy 5 lanes down with a casing :(

Otis61
04-14-2010, 08:44 PM
Last time I was at the range I had a buddy standing to the side, behind the fireing line a good little ways, and one bounced off the ceiling, and right down the back of his shirt. Ouch!!!

bladeworks123
04-14-2010, 09:26 PM
Well, I got the deflector welded on my 91 (thanks for the info, Blade) and had the barrelled receiver and 2 grip lowers Duracoated. I put a strip of Velcro on the face of the deflector but I'm still getting case dents so I'll probably have to go to a thick rubber bumper. The deflector throws the cases forward at about 45 degrees and down about 15 degrees. The range I shoot at has a 6 x 6 post right in the path of the spent cases, the cases have marked the post!! You really don't want to be in their path.


Where n the casigs are your dents??? on the case wall or at the mouth of the case?

Gopher
04-14-2010, 11:34 PM
The dents are on the side of the casing, the dents at the mouth are probably from the 6 x6 post (it really dings the wood).
BTW, bolt gap is .008 with +.04 rollers installed. The gun was bought new by me in 1976.

jfowl31
04-15-2010, 12:17 AM
The dents are on the side of the casing, the dents at the mouth are probably from the 6 x6 post (it really dings the wood).
BTW, bolt gap is .008 with +.04 rollers installed. The gun was bought new by me in 1976.

WAIT WHAT!!!! You bought the gun NEW in '76??? That means you HAVE to have a Mars Cetme.... Please tell me you didn't weld on a Mars Cetme???!!!

Gopher
04-15-2010, 11:41 AM
Relax, it's an HK91.

jfowl31
04-15-2010, 11:45 AM
Sorry 1-track mind...

The Great 308
11-19-2010, 08:07 PM
BLADE , did you make a piece of rubber that fits on to the shell deflector ?


Yes, but I haven't done any field testing yet. I have the sizing and shape ready for laser cutting them, but I want to bounce a couple hundred rounds off of one to see how it holds up and how effective it is. They are 3/16" medium hard density rubber. I'm also working on one for the FAL and the AR platforms to just protect rifle finish from brass kisses also. Here's the Hk prototype installed.....


Wow!! :thumbup: That looks great :rockon: Let us know how it works. Also I will probably be interested in a few of these if you plan on selling them. What type of glue or epoxy did you use to attach it to the deflector?

Thanks in advance,
TG308


The rubber I'm using is adhesive backed, peel and stick. I wanted to try that first so that attaching them won't damage painted finishes. I'm not real happy with the adhesive so far. It holds fairly well, but it will pull off, (about like duct tape) If the rubber holds up is the next test. If it looks like the rubber is going to be long life, and it will be a permanent thing, that won't need replaced regularly, I'll probably clean the surface good and use a gel superglue.

Are there any updates on these bladeworks? I would like to purchase one for the HK and one for the AR if they are available.

Thanks in advance,
TG308

bladeworks123
11-19-2010, 10:28 PM
I've got several of them cut out, but I am real disapointed in the sticky back. It sticks pretty good to the weapon but the rubber will pull away from the adhesive when you get gun oil or cleaner on them. I kind of set these on the back burner,,,,,let me order a new type of rubber and adhesive, try it out, and I have you on my list.

The Great 308
11-19-2010, 10:35 PM
I've got several of them cut out, but I am real disapointed in the sticky back. It sticks pretty good to the weapon but the rubber will pull away from the adhesive when you get gun oil or cleaner on them. I kind of set these on the back burner,,,,,let me order a new type of rubber and adhesive, try it out, and I have you on my list.

Thanks Bladeworks

schaz42
11-26-2010, 09:06 PM
So how does it work? Where does the brass land now, my HK91 always shoot em about 15 ft at around 1:30 so i've never had to worry about them hitting anyone but they do annoy the other shooters sight picture as its looks like its raining brass when my buddies registered sear pack is in : )

Also do you think this can be brazed? I'm pretty good at that but my Tig skills are a little iffy

James

Planning
11-26-2010, 09:51 PM
blade i have read this thread ( and other threads of yours) over several times. your different skills are amazing. thank you so much for sharing them with all of us.

ron

bladeworks123
11-26-2010, 11:56 PM
So how does it work? Where does the brass land now, my HK91 always shoot em about 15 ft at around 1:30 so i've never had to worry about them hitting anyone but they do annoy the other shooters sight picture as its looks like its raining brass when my buddies registered sear pack is in : )

Also do you think this can be brazed? I'm pretty good at that but my Tig skills are a little iffy

James

It kicks them forward at about the same angle and down about 10 feet. If yours is throwing them forward already, I wouldn;t worry too much about it. Most that I have seen throw the brass twenty feet out at 3 or 4 o'clock at mach 6. I'm sure you could braze or silver solder either one, as long as you are mindful of the heat you apply to the receiver. It will draw the receiver and likely warp around the ejection port if you get it red hot.

wilfred
11-30-2010, 07:33 PM
Have you tried 3M VHB tape for the rubber. It sticks fantastically for bonding rubber to painted metal.

GeorgiaG3
12-01-2010, 04:01 AM
It kicks them forward at about the same angle and down about 10 feet. If yours is throwing them forward already, I wouldn;t worry too much about it. Most that I have seen throw the brass twenty feet out at 3 or 4 o'clock at mach 6. I'm sure you could braze or silver solder either one, as long as you are mindful of the heat you apply to the receiver. It will draw the receiver and likely warp around the ejection port if you get it red hot.

I honestly don't think my shell deflector made any difference. If anything I think it caused it to throw brass closer to the side than before. It also appears that the brass is scattered over a wider area. And don't even get me started on receiver warp. I reheated my receiver and was able to get the bolt to move freely again but it still shoots about a foot above the target. I'm going to reheat it sometime this month and see how far I can get it to creep.

AURktman
05-09-2011, 06:26 PM
I know this may be a little weird for the brass deflector, but here is what I did. I bought the snap-on brass deflector from Robert at RTG. I trimmed it where the curve meets the side of the receiver and tack welded it to the side. I did this because I have the rail welded on top and the curved section would interfere. I used a carbide bit to blend the weld in and used JB Weld to fill in the area lacking weld. It needs more smoothing, but here it has the first coat of paint on it.

This is my beater gun hence the Krylon paint.

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i77/ETriggs/Guns/DSCN8358.jpg

SLiP
05-16-2011, 09:30 PM
AURktman - is that some sort of rubber insert inside that deflector? Looks like an interesting idea.

Blade - is it worth it to do the deflector? Some have said that it doesn't make much of a difference. I'm not a reloader (yet, anyway) and so saving brass isn't really much of a concern at this point. I'm mainly concerned with not shooting hot cases at my buddies or the guys across from me at the range.

bladeworks123
05-16-2011, 10:05 PM
AURktman - is that some sort of rubber insert inside that deflector? Looks like an interesting idea.

Blade - is it worth it to do the deflector? Some have said that it doesn't make much of a difference. I'm not a reloader (yet, anyway) and so saving brass isn't really much of a concern at this point. I'm mainly concerned with not shooting hot cases at my buddies or the guys across from me at the range.

I think it looks like what AURktman did was cut apart a clip on deflector and tack welded it to the receiver. Interesting thought.

Is the weld on worth it????? I think so, because I reload, and searching for brass 30 feet from where I am shooting does not appeal to me, nor does being a menace. Proper placement of the deflector and cutting out the receiver for it are essential to it working correctly. The brass is mangled by that short rolled edge on the ejection port and the mouths of the case get bent by anything they happen to hit at Mach 6. The idea is to place the deflector at a point where the brass will impact flat against it, slowing it down and bouncing it forward, the exact same way an AR deflector works. Get them on a little too far forward and you still get pretty good dents, but it definitely throws the brass down and to the front instead of at head height and whirling straight out 90 degrees from the port. As far as do they work better than the clip ons,,,,I don't think so. If I had an already built rifle, without a rail on top, I would use one of the plastic clip ons. You can slide them far enough forward to do the same thing, and keep the brass from being violently whacked into that back edge of the port. I am also building one that will attach to the side of a turbo rail without the need for welding it on. That should debut soon.

SLiP
05-16-2011, 11:56 PM
Sounds sweet! I look forward to seeing the new one. Well, like I said, I am mainly concerned with not shooting hot cases at everyone else - had one go in my buddy's shoe last time around - no joke! He was dancin'! But the tack on modified clip on looks kinda cool - I am going to be welding on top rails I got from turbo on both rifles and a clip on is out of the question. I am not going to do squat on the C93 with a deflector - it drops the cases 5' away, seriously. But my HK91 aims for other shooters and buddies in my shooting party as well. They're all starting to take cover when I pull her out, heh. I kinda want to do all the welding at one time since I don't do it myself, I get a machine shop buddy of mine to do it and it would be best to show up one time for both top rails and one deflector at the same time. One thing to note is that RTG is out of stock on the late model deflector - another reason to look at the modified clip on.

AURktman
05-18-2011, 09:20 PM
http://robertrtg.com/images/pofportbuffer2.jpg

That is the clip-on deflector I bought from Robert at RTG. I trimmed it off to where it meets the side of the receiver. I put three tack welds (ends, middle), ground flush, and filled in the gaps with JB Weld (old formula). ALOT of sanding later (more needed) it is getting close to flush. The center is rubber and can be replaced with pulling the center pin out. It is flared to keep it in. I was able to keep the metal cool around the rubber so that it didn't melt.

I think that is a VERY cool idea to have one attached to the rail already or able to clip on with the rail attached. One cool thing I would like to see is a way to make the rail accept the carrying handle in the end. Maybe a drilled out hole? I was trying to find a way to attach it, but no luck without shortening alot of it. I will still give it a go, but it will take a lot of rework.

SLiP
05-20-2011, 01:45 PM
I cut my rails from turbo to fit with a stock carry handle. They are still longer than any of the PITA clamp on type rails I futzed (and got frustrated) with. I have yet to weld them on, but I am toying with the idea of your style or Blade's style of deflector. I only want to put it on the HK91 as my C93 drops the cases 5-10' away at a forward angle - damn near perfect. Does yours do a good job of dropping the brass much closer and in a nice pile?

AURktman
05-24-2011, 08:47 PM
I will be able to answer that better after this weekend. I haven't had a chance to shoot it since I made the mods. I will head to Florida where I have room to shoot and give ya a range report.

greasyknucklez
06-06-2012, 08:34 PM
Great write up, I recently bought one of these NOS parts frm RTG, and was trying to postion it on the receiver before "reading"..was wondering how it got flush mounted like one of the pics on thier website (your finished weld obviously)

holescreek
06-06-2012, 09:34 PM
I didn't go back through the thread to see if this link was posted, but for anyone else wanting to buy a weld-on deflector you can't beat the price:

http://www.gunpartscorp.com/catalog/Detail.aspx?pid=1198850&catid=0

bladeworks123
06-07-2012, 12:17 AM
Great write up, I recently bought one of these NOS parts frm RTG, and was trying to postion it on the receiver before "reading"..was wondering how it got flush mounted like one of the pics on thier website (your finished weld obviously)

It is a little deceiving at first glance, not many people who sell them let you know that Hk originally designed them for cutting the receiver for the install. If you have a properly formed receiver they work pretty good, but I have since found that putting them on a Century build for instance is a grab bag.
Because of that I have quit putting them on unless I can check the rifle to see if it will fit on correctly without having to re-form the receiver. I pretty much only put them on new builds if they are wanted. The clip on's work just as well. If you have used one of the palstic clip on's you will find that moving it fore and aft just a little bit will dramatically change the way the brass behaves.

slim
08-10-2015, 10:47 PM
I sure am glad a quick search brought me to this tutorial. I sprung for the factory deflector as well from RTG and the cutouts on the back made no sense until I found this thread.

I've got some layout and cutting to do.

Thanks again all these years later, Blade!

wizzbane
09-05-2016, 07:26 AM
it is a bummer coming so late to the party when all the pics seem to disappear...just starting on a cetme build oh well will keep looking

holescreek
09-05-2016, 11:52 AM
Any of the attachments that linked to photos stored off site are gone but there are a few site hosted pics in this thread on weaponsguild: http://www.weaponsguild.com/forum/index.php?topic=16683.0

jdowney
09-05-2016, 12:57 PM
Any of the attachments that linked to photos stored off site are gone but there are a few site hosted pics in this thread on weaponsguild: http://www.weaponsguild.com/forum/index.php?topic=16683.0

Weaponsguild requires registration to view, but its well worth doing for anyone interested in building rifles.

I think even the older pictures hosted here were lost too, anything older than 2-3 years is gone.

Knoppers
07-05-2018, 05:15 AM
Weaponsguild requires registration to view, but its well worth doing for anyone interested in building rifles.

I think even the older pictures hosted here were lost too, anything older than 2-3 years is gone.

Does anybody still have the pics ?

Regards