Fake Gold Bars?

[turmanator]

Hard to find a good source. It's all foreign or blogs. So much for the sanctity of Gold! :eek:

http://www.viewzone.com/fakegold.html

http://agmetalminer.com/2009/12/03/fake-gold-bars-discovered-in-hk-lbma-approved-vaults/

[Phirebug]

at $1143 an ounce it was bound to happen. i'm kind of nervous because i invested some of my combat pay in silver and gold and one of the silver bars looks a hell of a lot like solder. :blink1:

[mitchstoner]

Guess I have never understood the gold thing.

You can't eat it or shoot it or burn it to keep warm. Maybe you could trade it for stuff that can be eaten, shot, or burned. But, you will be trading huge amounts that cost you dearly for a much lesser value of survival goods. Why not just buy survival supplies now while they are reasonable priced, instead of gold? In fact, a guy with a huge stash of survival goods will be able to turn some of them into gold fairly easily, if that's what he wants.

As for investment, well, I have never had a lot of that to worry about.

[gtty]

IMHO If the SHTF, ammo and food will be the new commodity.

[jdowney]

I'm fairly skeptical of this kind of report....

Look at it this way -
Its easier to influence the price of gold through spurious reports and fear mongering and make money on the swings, than it is to manufacture fake gold bars using tungsten - amazingly hard stuff to work - and sell it, thus risking fairly easy detection and jail time.

[jdowney]

A little more research:

From Wikipedia:
Tungsten density is 19.25 g/cm^3, gold density is 19.30 g/cm^3
Size of a standard gold bar according to the US Mint is 7"x3.625"x1.75", so the volume is 44.40625 cubic inches. Converting that to cubic centimeters you get 727.68806 cm^3. Multiply that by the difference in density (0.05 g/cm^3) gives us a weight difference of about 36 grams per bar of each material. That's more than an ounce - very easily detectable by simple means.

Tungsten is also very brittle, and gold is not. A dropped bar would probably fracture, and just handling the bars one would quickly notice a different ring as they are moved around. Try this with an old silver coin versus a new clad copper coin - I have a bunch of silver half dollars and quarters that I found this way. So I believe the perpetrators would be caught quickly.

Also, tungsten melts at 3422 degrees C (6191 F), more than twice the average melting point of steel alloys. Its used as the electrode in TIG welding because it melts at such a higher temperature than steel. Between this and the hardness, its very difficult to mold or otherwise form, though not impossible of course.

[okie shooter]

This is a old story, look at the dates of the articles and such, been there and read that, and didnt get a t-shirt.

[turmanator]

Yeah, it's from Oct-Nov. But I had not seen anything about it.

[brewskzilla]

IMHO If the SHTF, ammo and food will be the new commodity.


In that case... I REALLY need the STHTF. I'll be a RICH BASTAGE! I've been hording beenie weenies for a couple of years, now and I've got enough ammo to supply Bastogne for a couple of days, anyway...

[CrossFire]

My stacks of cases and cases of 7.62 nato, .45acp, 12ga and MREs look pretty good, even from an investment view point. I am looking for water filtration systems next.

[Cavalryman]

If the SHTF, a good water filtration system will be worth killing for. Fortunately, I have several. I also have the means, the skill, and the inclination to be sure they remain mine. Safe drinking water is the first thing to go in disaster scenarios. Virtually all stream and lake water in North America is contaminated with Giardia lamblia which will give you a potentially-lethal case of diarrhea. However, to those who know how to look for it, water is available almost everywhere in North America if it can be rendered safe to drink. If the SHTF, you'd trade all that gold for one cup of water in a heartbeat. I don't necessarily think gold is a bad investment, but it's not going to be worth poop in a genuine disaster.

[weasel_master]

Giardia is no fun. I caught it on a fishing trip up North. Defaintely cleanses your system.

[Nazgul]

If the SHTF, a good water filtration system will be worth killing for. Fortunately, I have several. I also have the means, the skill, and the inclination to be sure they remain mine. Safe drinking water is the first thing to go in disaster scenarios. Virtually all stream and lake water in North America is contaminated with Giardia lamblia which will give you a potentially-lethal case of diarrhea. However, to those who know how to look for it, water is available almost everywhere in North America if it can be rendered safe to drink. If the SHTF, you'd trade all that gold for one cup of water in a heartbeat. I don't necessarily think gold is a bad investment, but it's not going to be worth poop in a genuine disaster.

Kinda like that Twilight Zone with the bank robbers that sleep for 100 years and fight for water and trade it for gold until they all die of thirst and the future guy that finds them is like "Gold? What would I do with that"?

[SteelCore]

Without any factual basis (all intarweb sites on this have the same 'theory' but NO actual facts), I call BS on this. Heard it a few months ago.

Interestingly if you google "tungsten gold bars" there's a link to Ron Paul's 2012 site...so I guess he's a conspiracy theorist?

[rpmfly2]

IMHO If the SHTF, ammo and food will be the new commodity.

At least that's what Glenn Beck says.

Actually intelligence will be in high demand due to civil unrest and not being able to trust everyone. I thought that apocalyps man last night was a little lame and short on onfo. Was flippin channels while working and just happened to catch it.

Water and food will be commodities that will be hoarded and used for barter.

[rpmfly2]

A little more research:

From Wikipedia:
Tungsten density is 19.25 g/cm^3, gold density is 19.30 g/cm^3
Size of a standard gold bar according to the US Mint is 7"x3.625"x1.75", so the volume is 44.40625 cubic inches. Converting that to cubic centimeters you get 727.68806 cm^3. Multiply that by the difference in density (0.05 g/cm^3) gives us a weight difference of about 36 grams per bar of each material. That's more than an ounce - very easily detectable by simple means.

Tungsten is also very brittle, and gold is not. A dropped bar would probably fracture, and just handling the bars one would quickly notice a different ring as they are moved around. Try this with an old silver coin versus a new clad copper coin - I have a bunch of silver half dollars and quarters that I found this way. So I believe the perpetrators would be caught quickly.

Also, tungsten melts at 3422 degrees C (6191 F), more than twice the average melting point of steel alloys. Its used as the electrode in TIG welding because it melts at such a higher temperature than steel. Between this and the hardness, its very difficult to mold or otherwise form, though not impossible of course.

Metals all ring different. Lead and steel in the same shape are two extremes!

[larryp]

If you're looking for a reputable dealer in precious metals I'd recommend American Precious Metals Exchange. I've bought some gold and silver from them in past with out any problems. (Please note that I'm not affiliated with them in any way, just trying to help out other forum members in finding a honest source).