Transfer question

[MID]

My brother bought a 10/22 rifle.
They said he needed a current drivers license, or any other state issued id card such as a current fishing license. HE has an expired drivers license, so he used his current fishing license, on the form which is what the salesman said he could do.

They called it in, and he was put on a delay.

They called back 2 days later, and said that the background check was cleared and he could come pick up his rifle.


He goes to the store, with all the stuff he had when he filled out the background check form. And the guy( not the same guy as before) behind the counter throws a fit and will not finish the transfer, because he doesnt have a current drivers license. And he will not accept the fishing license that was used on the form.

SO my question is, since the fishing license was a valid form of id for the background check, it should be valid for the transfer, right? Keep in mind he has a expired diver license, that matches all the info on the current fishing license.
Or was this guy just being an ass because we interupted him, while he was stocking the selfs?

[Darkwatch]

Sounds like the guy was being an ass, or he was just doing a bit too much CYA. I always ask for a manager as politely as I can and find if I explane the situation to them they are usually okay. Just my .03 cents. Good luck!

[okie shooter]

Does your state require a photo attached to the fishing lic, if not, I beleive that the ffl has to have either positive id, or a goverment issued photo ID, I have shown mine to the dealer everytime I do a transfer even though he knows me by name and has sold things to me for ten years. They still record the id number on the form.

P.S. a expried d/l isnt a legal form of id, once expired I believe.

[NavajoNPaleFace]

It depends on your state and since you didn't say where this all happened it might be difficult getting responses.

Also, I'm at a loss as to how a state fishing license is a state issued identification card...even if it required a photo.

[DAA1]

Sounds like you need to look in your states firearms laws, each state has them, I would argue if the exired license and fishing license was used for the background check then it should be ok for the transfer, however the FFL holder has the right to refuse a sell if he believes the identification does not meet the requirements. Each and every FFL can refuse a sell or transfer, that is especially true of big box stores. That is the one reason I do not buy firearms in WI, most big box stores do not know the state of federal law and want to use their more restrictive company guidelines to refuse me a sell. If I had a WI drivers license all would be well, but I am not giving up my Texas license. Easier to just find a different FFL to do the transfer.

[M1 Tanker]

Why not just goto the DMV Monday morning and get a driver's license? That would solve all the problems and needs to be done anyway it sounds like.

[texlurch]

Why not just goto the DMV Monday morning and get a driver's license? That would solve all the problems and needs to be done anyway it sounds like.


+1

If he had taken care of his business, then this whole episode would not have happened.

And as far as I know, the FFL can refuse a transfer or sale for any reason, even if you have all the proper stuff.

[MID]

Yea if it was that cut and dry.

[okie shooter]

If the problem is the d/l just go and get a state issued photo ID card, not a D/L.

[MicroPilot]

Sounds to me like theres some very important information about the brother that isn't being said.

[86thecat]

I can't believe a fishing license is an acceptable form of ID for anything. Don't you need other ID when fishing to prove it's your license? I need to get a fishing license and can't wait to be in line behind a dozen followers of the religon of peace getting new IDs.

[tanstaafl4y]

a fishing license can be used to prove address/residence much like a checkbook, electric bill, voter registration, or vehicle registration.

[okie shooter]

a fishing license can be used to prove address/residence much like a checkbook, electric bill, voter registration, or vehicle registration.

I imagine the fishing lic, with the expired D/L was what was accepted as the ID, In most states if you hand a game warden a fishing lic, you also have to give them some sort of ID, thus some one was willing to take both(the store). After 9/11 and the many laws reguarding ID, its amazeing what it takes to get a ID and what is accepted as a ID to the state under the new federal guidelines set down.

Go to this link and read instruction 1, the dealer was right to want a valid D/L or other goverment issued photo ID, as it says in paragragh 1, instructions to transferor. Thus its not valid if its expired.

http://www.atf.gov/forms/4473/page03.htm

Again, I am not a laywer but I can read the form, its out there on line for all to read.

Also, for accepting the ID the first time but not the second, if there is a delay the instructions say you must present valid id both when applying and if delayed when picking up the firearm, thus even if the ID was valid the day you filled out the form, but expired when you tried to pick it up the next day, its not valid,(paragraph 3 of the instructions to the transferee)

[okie shooter]

BTT, whats the status of the transfer now?

[MID]

It went through.

Ok heres the story.

My brother didnt have a current license, cause it was seized.
It did not get an id untill today, because, anything to do with government in this state is absolutely redicculious. It is a fuckstory becuase once your in a government job, your in and theres all most no way of getting fired, so the people are not the smartest or the most effiecent either. Plus the entire system is retarded. SO the simplest thing can be an entire afternoon chore.


Let me walk you through the process.
You would think that its first come first serve, right? Well its not.
You walk in the place, and the first thing you do is stand in line to tell sombody why your there. After telling the person why your there, they we give you the necessary forms, and a number. NOw wait, this number isnt like the number you get while wating at the deli, its not the next number in sequence. What they do, is issue a number that corraspondes to why your there. They are three digit numbers, with a codeing Ex If you need a id or dl the number will be a number 100 - 199. If you need a plates or title transfers, it will be 200-299. etc etc. At this point it kinda makes sense, so that all the people needing plates can go see a dmv person that does plates, Or whatever, kinda so your dealing with a specialist, makes things faster?!? So you get your magic number and you go sit in the waiting area.

There you wait. Theres probly 20 different windows.
Now here comes the kicker, you know them coded numbers, well every single window, will call any of the different types of numbers. So realy theres is no specialist, you get a jack of all trades.( not good at anything ) So keep in mind this is a pretty elaborated number calling system. Probaly costed over a million for each dmv office. And all it does is makes it hard to guess when youll be called. And lets people skip in line.

It took my brother 2.5hrs to get his id. And of that 3hrs. he only spent 5 mins actualy dealing with an dmv personal. Theres no order in the system, because i saw several people get there after him, and leave way before him.
Since all the dmv personal can do all the tasks, why do they need any thing more then a red ticker wheel at the fornt counter?

This and their stupit hrs, makes things crappy.
Most people work 8 to 5 or so, well i guess so does the dmv.
They have one day where they are open past five, well guess what everybody and there mom will be there that day. But on the other 5 days there open its dead. So we pay these assholes to be busy one day and sit on there asses the other five.


You should see what it looks like on the 27th of every month( thats when the welfare get there checks.

[Big Steve]

I have not lived in CA. for 7 years, and this may have changed. But when I was there a fishing license was also a CCP. A little known law stated that you could carry a concealed weapon to, from and during a fishing trip.
Sorry this is O.T. But the fishing license thing made me think of it.
Steve

[Planning]

lets see if i got this right,
you brother got his license seized, right
he could not get another license until today, right.
then he had to go down to the license office, right
take a # and wait in line like everyone else, right

what does working for the government have to do with anything? lots of very smart people work for the govt. and a few dunb one also.
lots of places have the same system, did he really think he was just going to walk in and be first in line? why didn't he go on one of the other 5 days when they were not busy?

[MID]

lets see if i got this right,
you brother got his license seized, right
he could not get another license until today, right.
then he had to go down to the license office, right
take a # and wait in line like everyone else, right

what does working for the government have to do with anything? lots of very smart people work for the govt. and a few dunb one also.
lots of places have the same system, did he really think he was just going to walk in and be first in line? why didn't he go on one of the other 5 days when they were not busy?

yes no yes yes*

I think you have that backwards, and dumb is spelled Dee You EM BEE
No*
Hes got a 8 to 5 job. Hence he could only go on the one day that they are open late.

Theres a few things your missing.

#1 you dont live in this state. You have no concept of how messed up government employees are. Our city government took 500 milion dollars form the transportation fund, and spent it on the schools where only 25 percent attend. An now all of sudden there is no money for the roads? So now they want to jack up fees for drivers. And the schools are no better then before. So what happend to the 500 million?
#2 * The normal concept of waiting in line means, The 1st person there goes first, the second goes 2nd, the 3rd person there goes third and on and on. Not here, they pick who ever they want to go when ever the feel like.
#3 if it was a privately ownned business, do you think they would be open with full staff, when its dead, and closed when the prime consumer base is now avaible to shop? NO. But since there is no competition because its government, they can waste as much money as they want.

[86thecat]

Theres a few things your missing.

I'm missing the explination of seized, you can't tell only half of the story.

[oilhead]

In the vernacular of the layman, "Seized" means taken away for some reason. Many circumstances come to mind, None of them good - Excessive points taken away for DMV violations, lack of insurance, criminal convictions...........The list goes on. To blame the Gummint for the whole business seems a little extreme, eh?

Just my 2 Cents.

[okie shooter]

So it was your within your brothers control to keep his lic, he lost it.

Its everyone elses fault that he had to go and get a ID, because he works, damm them for working too. I guess if you arent happpy because he had to wait, he shouldnt have lost the lic. in the first place.

[Grasshopper]

Ok boys, He got the gun and the ID. Good for him. I hope he doesn't have any problems in the future. As for the lisencing of your state? Try Massachusettes. All the above problems BUT most of the people there at the DMV are translaters for the illegal aliens with fake worker IDs. Talk about HELL! It took me 4 hours one day. Just standing in line. The signs were all down for review so you didn't know where to stand in line.
God bless you!
Ed

[MID]

HAha you guys are great.

I never once said that he was the victim. Or needed special treatment.

Can somebody please qoute where i said he needs special treatment?

[okie shooter]

Maybe not special treatment, but nothing but distain and complaints about a system, that thru the actions of your brother, forced him to go and deal with the system. You guys walked into that situation with chips on your shoulders.


It went through.

Ok heres the story.

My brother didnt have a current license, cause it was seized.
It did not get an id untill today, because, anything to do with government in this state is absolutely redicculious. It is a fuckstory becuase once your in a government job, your in and theres all most no way of getting fired, so the people are not the smartest or the most effiecent either. Plus the entire system is retarded. SO the simplest thing can be an entire afternoon chore.

Extreem anger above here, a "fu*kstory", and nothing but "not the smartest or the most effiecent either", basicly slamming them for having a job that might have problems that you never see. The servers or network may have caused the system to be slow, but you just vent anger at folks that do their job, day in and day out, with folks all pissed off at them. Sounds like there is a issue here with dealing with the goverment in any form. They have familes, work hard, maybe you dont think so but I imagine they do.



Let me walk you through the process.
You would think that its first come first serve, right? Well its not.
You walk in the place, and the first thing you do is stand in line to tell sombody why your there. After telling the person why your there, they we give you the necessary forms, and a number. NOw wait, this number isnt like the number you get while wating at the deli, its not the next number in sequence. What they do, is issue a number that corraspondes to why your there. They are three digit numbers, with a codeing Ex If you need a id or dl the number will be a number 100 - 199. If you need a plates or title transfers, it will be 200-299. etc etc. At this point it kinda makes sense, so that all the people needing plates can go see a dmv person that does plates, Or whatever, kinda so your dealing with a specialist, makes things faster?!? So you get your magic number and you go sit in the waiting area.

There you wait. Theres probly 20 different windows.
Now here comes the kicker, you know them coded numbers, well every single window, will call any of the different types of numbers. So realy theres is no specialist, you get a jack of all trades.( not good at anything ) So keep in mind this is a pretty elaborated number calling system. Probaly costed over a million for each dmv office. And all it does is makes it hard to guess when youll be called. And lets people skip in line.


Sounds like you have a better idea here, go and get a job with the state.
Maybe some transactions are set up for some processors, and they are easy, like tag renewal, where as new d/l's take for ever with testing, and ID's have to have access to different data bases, thus some things go fast and some go slow. A guy issueing tags, dont need a camera to process his stuff.



It took my brother 2.5hrs to get his id. And of that 3hrs. he only spent 5 mins actualy dealing with an dmv personal. Theres no order in the system, because i saw several people get there after him, and leave way before him.
Since all the dmv personal can do all the tasks, why do they need any thing more then a red ticker wheel at the fornt counter?

If your brother took some time off to deal with it it might have gone better, a hour in the morning might have gotten you in and out quicker. The fact that they even have any evening hours is good, compared to most places, its 9-5 with a hour lunch.

Sounds like they just do more than d/l's and ID's there thus need to sort them out. I live in a place where you get your tags at a private agency, your dl at a state office, but the d/l is actually issued at the tag agent. Not sure why but thats the way it works. Again if you have a better idea write your local state rep.


This and their stupit hrs, makes things crappy.
Most people work 8 to 5 or so, well i guess so does the dmv.
They have one day where they are open past five, well guess what everybody and there mom will be there that day. But on the other 5 days there open its dead. So we pay these assholes to be busy one day and sit on there asses the other five.


You should see what it looks like on the 27th of every month( thats when the welfare get there checks.

You have call them "as*holes" said they dont fear for their jobs and thus are "not the smartest or the most effiecent either", thus you have no respect for them and have blanket labeled them as stupider than you and lazyer than you. Sounds like the moment you walked in you had a chip on your shoulder, even though it was your brothers fault that he was even there. I cannot say how MD does its DMV system, but you had nary a good word when you walked in, no matter if you had been give the best of service. Hope you dont ever get a job in the service industry having to deal with folks, it aint fun. There always will be people there who are there under situations like your brothers. Thus it will create friction no matter how good it had went.

First you blasted the gun dealer not doing the transfer, but I showed if he had done what you asked, he would have been in violation of the law, and regulations transfering the weapon.(and maybe your brother too)

Second your brother lost the d/l to the state, weather actions of his were the absolute or not, he did something to facilitate that.

Now you blast the state, for taking time to issue him a new ID, but everyone here is just doing their job, you said it your self it took a while, but maybe the folks doing ID's were far busiser than the folks doing tags or what not, You don't know for sure if the section you delt with was just i/d's or d/l's just that it took a while and there were twenty or so windows. Are you sure that every window could issue a ID or D/L or just certian folks, some states the id and d/l's are issued by special folks, agents of the highway patrol or such.

I wonder if he got in and out quicker than anyone else needing a ID issued, that would be the question?

[MicroPilot]

As I stated earlier I think we are missing critical need to know information about his brother.

[86thecat]

Since Mid doesn't want to fill in the story for us here is my take so far-
Brother is a knucklehead.
Knuckleheads cause their own problems by not coloring inside the lines then throw a fit when their crayons are taken away.
Next we'll hear about his getting shafted because he was target shooting in a residential neighborhood and a stray bullet hits the neighbor, of course not his fault.
Mid, fill in the rest and prove me wrong.

[M1 Tanker]

Ok, the firing line is no longer clear.

Personal attacks are never welcome on this forum.

Its ok to disagree with someone on this forum. This thread is going nowhere but downhill quickly...so thread ended. I'm easy to contact via PM if you wish to discuss this further.

On an endnote, I have no idea where MID lives, but buying a firearm with a fishing license sounds like a bad bad bad state law.

1953