Finnish Sako Mosin Nagant

[Player]

i'm thinking about getting one to shoot 7/62x54r, i'm getting tired of having to pay so much for 8mm

thought that if i got a mosin, i might as well do it right and get the prime example of the rifle. so who has a finnish mosin nagant? what do you think about them? i'm wanting to shoot it at longer distances, say 300m?

[Longhorn789]

Kind of hard to pass up at their price.

I've got one. Once you remedy the sticky bolt problem if you have that, they are pleasing to shoot and reasonably accurate.

I say do it man. Just do it..

[okie shooter]

I agree for the price you might be very happy, but finding what you are wanting might be tough to find, the finns came out far earlier than soviet ones.

Henry if you find a rifle and ammo, stock up, the eastern europian ammo will eventually dry up, thats the problem of of the 8mm, it was eastern europian too, thus eventually the countries that joined nato, and were getting rid of their older stuff will run out eventually.

[sswikinger]

The Finnish M39 is a very accurate battle rifle. My VKT (Valmet) 1944 M39 is a tackdriver. One MOA at 100 & 200 yds. I'm convinced it will do the job at 300 and 400 yds, if I can find a place to be able to try it at those distances.
You can find SAKO M39s on Gunbroker.com all the time.

[Player]

what kind of ammo are you running through it with that accuracy?
are the sights factory sighted in?

[sswikinger]

Each rifle may be different. Mine shoots most accurately Wolf 200gr SP, JMS 02 surplus and for best accuracy: 150 gr Sierra .311 SP with 44.0 gr 4064 powder. I bought the rifle with a PU 3.5 scope already mounted. But this model is well known for accuracy even with the iron sights. I should add, that my trigger is superb and may be better than most M39 triggers.

http://www.ppsh41.com/vktpu.jpg

[harris hawk]

"i'm thinking about getting one to shoot 7/62x54r, i'm getting tired of having to pay so much for 8mm

thought that if i got a mosin, i might as well do it right and get the prime example of the rifle. so who has a finnish mosin nagant? what do you think about them? i'm wanting to shoot it at longer distances, say 300m?"

Henry, I have four M39s, all four are antiques, and they all are very accurate even out to the 600, and 700yd distances. The M39 Finn rifles have the best iron sights of all the MN type rifles. The Finnish M39 has a heavier barrel, heavier stock which is made up of several different parts, so that it won't warp in extreme temps, have better trigger actions, have no jamb mag parts, a lot of them have even been shimmed for accuracy, and in general have been rubbed on, and improved for accuracy, and function. My rifles seem to prefer LB ammo, though many have reported good results with the HB ammo. Mine really like the Russian silver tip(LB), and Albanian LB. As noted, each rifle will have it's own ammo flavor preferences. I'd suggest getting a small amount of several different flavors of ammo, and see what your rifle prefers:thumbup:. Good luck, and keep us posted on your progress.
Michael

[bullseye]

I have what I thought was a 91/30 but turned out to be a Finn 91 that I bought around 90. Paid 35.00 foir it at a store too. :) It shoots just fine with almost every kind of ammo I've tried but it likes the silvertip the best. Get one while they are cheap and stock up on ammo while it is around and you won't regret it. the bolt will loosen up after a bit of shooting.

[Player]

stopped by the range today... saw a finnish mosin, VKT marked, VALMET! 1943 barrel, pristine bore, 80% blue(as i remembered), stock has a few repairs, but wood looks awesome, it was mismarked as a "swedish M??? russian mosin nagant receiver??"................................................ $100.. yep! it's mine!!!

i'm picking it up tomorrow, they're holding on to it for me
i think i made out like a bandit!!

[pigpen]

$100!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That sounds like a GREAT deal. Will you post some artistic pics when ya get it? Like that AK pic you posted a while back. You know :ttiwwop:

[Player]

oh you know my style... heck yeah i'll shoot some artsy fartsy photos
i'll probably open a new thread on the review board for the M39 i get with phtos comparing that with my 98k

at the meantime i need to figure out what ammo to get it

[pigpen]

Dude, I was gonna say artsy-fartsy but I had just read one of the forum rule stickies about being polite so I didn't want to offend. Not that you are one of those easily offended artsy-fartsy people.

[Player]

Dude, I was gonna say artsy-fartsy but I had just read one of the forum rule stickies about being polite so I didn't want to offend. Not that you are one of those easily offended artsy-fartsy people.

no worries. i'm the king of the offensive.

anyways, hey, so what kind of ammo is good to buy? i read that hungarian light ball? czech penetrator? exactly how much is 762x54r nowadays?

also, how are the stripper clips? i heard they were a hit and miss, but would it work better on a finn?

[pigpen]

I belive the going price is between $35-$45 for 440rds. I got a good deal on the albainian wiedners was selling a while back so that has been all I have shot. My 91/30 likes it and my bros. VKT likes it too. Unfortunatly I don't know where to get any more of the albainian ammo. When my Bro got his VKT we thought it had a stock repair but as it turned out that is how the finns made em'. By looking @ how the stock was put together(what we thought were repairs) you can tell if it is a pre war, transitional or post war stock.

[pigpen]

Here is a target from a couple of weeks ago.

[sswikinger]

Henry, congratulations- you got one heck of a deal!!

Here is my M39 100 yd target with reloads (3 shots touching):
http://www.ppsh41.com/m39100yd.jpg

Here is a 200 yd target ¾" group with reloads shot Sunday. I couldn't see the hits with my spotting scope at that distance, so I just shot 2 rounds. Was shooting my two SVTs the whole day. (previously I've had 1 MOA- 1¾" groups):
http://www.ppsh41.com/m39200yd.jpg

Love my M39! My trigger is so smooth- no drag. I think this makes a huge difference. Need to find somewhere I can try 300-400 yds.

[Player]

dang all that looks wicked

i jsut wish i had reloading stuff (or the space to put it...) i feel that i could really benifit from reloading


but guys, i pickd it up yesterday, and it's at my apartment now, but i'm not going to be there for a while.. is the barrel supposed to be free floated? cause thats how it seemed like it was to me, it wasn't touching any of the wood stock. is that normal?

i'll shoot it when i have a chance, probably pick up some 762x54r from MGS while im in fort worth too. pics will come with the range report

[harris hawk]

"is the barrel supposed to be free floated? cause thats how it seemed like it was to me, it wasn't touching any of the wood stock. is that normal?",... Henry, no the barrel isn't supposed to be a free floating barrel. All of my barrels are touching the wood at the front of the stocks. Make sure both of the barrel bands are tight, and also the two action screws that go thru the floor plate into the receiver. As for your earlier inquiry about who might have some ammo for your new rifle, try AIM Surplus, and SG. SG only has Wolf in 7.62x54r(no milsurp ammo in this cal.), but isn't corrosive ammo. Hope this helps.
Michael

www.aimsurplus.com

www.sportsmansguide.com

[pigpen]

southerohiogun has 300rd tins for $39

[harris hawk]

Pigpen, Is that Albanian ammo? It appears to be either brass cased, or, copper washed casings. Also, what grain bullet is it? The add doesn't provide vital info on this ammo. SOG also shows on that same page Bulgarian 5.45x39 ammo that they say is "non-corrosive", got any info on this ammo? I'm almost certain the 5.45x39 is corrosive.
Michael

[Player]

"is the barrel supposed to be free floated? cause thats how it seemed like it was to me, it wasn't touching any of the wood stock. is that normal?",... Henry, no the barrel isn't supposed to be a free floating barrel. All of my barrels are touching the wood at the front of the stocks. Make sure both of the barrel bands are tight, and also the two action screws that go thru the floor plate into the receiver.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=194026

seems like this guy got a very similar one that i did. free floated barrel, VKT marked, post war stock

[pigpen]

Pigpen, Is that Albanian ammo? It appears to be either brass cased, or, copper washed casings. Also, what grain bullet is it? The add doesn't provide vital info on this ammo. SOG also shows on that same page Bulgarian 5.45x39 ammo that they say is "non-corrosive", got any info on this ammo? I'm almost certain the 5.45x39 is corrosive.
Michael

I got the flyer in front of me & now that I look at it, the can looks like it might be albainian. The ones I got a while back came in 300rd cans had a greyish look to them so it might be the same stuff. I don't know the weight of the bullets but it shoots pretty good. One case split on me but other than that it has been good. If I was not broke I'd buy more.

[hunter_la5]

surely a free floated barrel is nothing to complain about? so long as the handguard is nice and sturdy (without being able to put pressure on the barrel), the free floated barrel should be an advantage in accuracy

[harris hawk]

As mentioned earlier in this post, ALL four of my WWII era, antique M39's(round finger joints, not square, or pointed)have NO free floating barrels. Maybe, post WWII versions of the M39 have been free floated. However, the same effect can be achieved by merely loosening the barrel bands, and firing for effect. My rifles are excellent shooters, and I can't even imagine any improvements that could be made to these already excellent shooting rifles. I've owned seven M39's, and none of them have been "free floaters". I'd like to add, that I COMPLETELY disassemble, clean, inspect, lube, check for function, and re-assemble all of my rifles, and have found NO free floaters in any of my Finn M91's, M27, or, any of the M39's I've owned. I'm sure there's always the exception, but, I've not encountered it yet. Again, I'd check both barrel bands for screw tightness, as well as both action screws. A very simple, quick check, to be sure.
Michael

[Player]

hey man, i didn't mean to doubt you.
last night after i saw your message, and i finally came home to inspect the rifle again, i took it apart, cleaned everything, and tightened allthe bands and the receiver back together, i found that the barrel is indeed a free floated barrel.

might be that the finns decided to float them after the war?????? i remember reading somewhere taht they floated a bunch of M28's too, but i wasn't sure if it was pre or post war or whatever?????

a review will be coming soon as i take photos of it at the range.

[harris hawk]

hey man, i didn't mean to doubt you.
last night after i saw your message, and i finally came home to inspect the rifle again, i took it apart, cleaned everything, and tightened allthe bands and the receiver back together, i found that the barrel is indeed a free floated barrel.

might be that the finns decided to float them after the war?????? i remember reading somewhere taht they floated a bunch of M28's too, but i wasn't sure if it was pre or post war or whatever?????

a review will be coming soon as i take photos of it at the range.

Henry, I'm not sure about the free floating barrel deal, as I don't recall ever reading anything on it. However, we might get a clue as to if the rifle is a post war example by a description of the stock joints on the bottom of the main stock. Rounded fingers in the joints, then it's a war time stock. Squared, or pointed fingers means a post war stock. Which type do you have?
Michael

[Player]

squared. i thinks that's after transitional right

[Player]

http://www.mosinnagant.net/finland/Finn-Mosin-Nagant-M91.asp

"...Shims were also fitted on many of these stocks to help free float the barrel for better accuracy. It is not uncommon to see these later stocks on M91/24 Civil Guard rifles as the 91/24's were sent into Finnish Army service after the Winter War. The Finns did not keep records of how many 91/24's were in stock at this time as they were lumped in with M91 numbers...."

[harris hawk]

Henry, here is an expert's take on these rifles. Which, some of, or all of us, maybe referring to two totally different things, "full floating", and "free floating". This might help clear things up a bit, I hope. Alko is a respected, and knowledgeable member of Gun Boards, and this is his take on this subject. Which mirrors my own take on this subject,..."The SAKO assembled M-39's will generally have the front of the stock and handguard that will make contact with the barrel, and usually the only other barrel contact is sometimes under the chamber area. The wartime Kuopio assembled M-39's are usually set-up like the SAKO assembled M-39's. The postwar replacement stocks, are far more likely to have the wood relieved in the front of the stock, and handguard so the barrel is truly free-floating. The Finnish M-28/76 rifle is free-floating." Either way, the M39, or any Finn rifle is a sweet acquisition. Enjoy, and happy shooting!
Michael

[Player]

oh sweeeet, nice to get that one cleared up, i was kinda starting to worry that i got a bubba'd M39

but i promised pics, i posted these on another thread, but i wanted to add a few to this one thread as well... here they are:
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y268/baylorhenry/reenactment/range/DSC_5821.jpg
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y268/baylorhenry/reenactment/range/DSC_5817.jpg
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y268/baylorhenry/reenactment/range/DSC_5797.jpg
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y268/baylorhenry/reenactment/range/DSC_5801.jpg


that's not me it's my friend shooting

[sswikinger]

Nice looking stock. Ok, now how did it shoot? The fact you didn't mention anything about the accuracy makes me think it didn't do too well. I'm curious. How about a range report?

[hunter_la5]

Nice looking stock. Ok, now how did it shoot? The fact you didn't mention anything about the accuracy makes me think it didn't do too well. I'm curious. How about a range report?

http://www.militaryfirearm.com/Forum/showthread.php?t=1728

[8point]

I have two 91/30's[one is scoped with a syn. stock] and 7 M39's.The M39 is a cut above the original Russian design for sure.All of my M39's had floated barrels and metal shims under the receiver lug when needed to achieve this.
Some have shims on the sides of the stock in the lug well and on the rear where the receiver tang touches. The shims on the side of the stock in the lug well prevents back movement from the recoil so the stock doesn't split just behind the receiver tang.More shims are easy to make from metal pop cans or tin "posted" signs,using a original shim as a pattern. With the stock tightened down and the handguard off,running a dollar bill between the barrel and the stock to the reciver is sufficent floating.With the handguard installed the barrel should have a slight play by relieving some of the wood on the front of the handguard or loosening the front mount some.With the rifle sitting in the stock and both rear screws out, you should get no back and forth movement or any rocking movement between the lug and the tang. That's what the lug side shims and tang shims are for.Some of the WW2 Russian 91/30's had felt pads under the barrel in the front. "To free float or not to?" Try the rifle both ways when the barrel is cold and warm and see which is more accurate.My scoped 91/30 and my M39's shoot better with 180 to 203 grain soft point ammo than the 147 grain silver tipped surplus.Try different brands and bullet weights.If you use surplus, it's corrosive so swab the barrel out with a ammonia solution like windex and then clean as you normally would.Bullets of a .310 to .311 diameter should shoot best in the M39 barrel since most of the M39's have a .310 bore.If the barrel shows wear and your in doubt about the bore, then you can slug the barrel to measure it.My 44 sako groups the best at moa at 100 yards with the 68 and 69 no name close behind. The scoped 91/30 will group 3 in about a 1 1/2 inch circle at 100 with the 203 gr. SP ammo.Reloading is the next step in making the M39 more accurate.Serria makes a .303 caliber bullet in a 174 gr. and .311 diameter that works well for several shooters. I tune the second stage on my triggers to about 3 lbs. pull and replace any worn parts to get a smooth pull.
With the design of the safety and trigger you can go too far and create a dangerous situation.If you do decide to tune the trigger always check it by tapping the butt on the floor and slaming the bolt closed to make sure it doesn't fire by itself.If your not familar with trigger work then let someone else do it who is or leave it.The web sites on Mosins have info on most of what I've touched on.The M39's barrel and stock weight makes it a nice bench rifle but it's kinda heavy for something like a deer stand rifle. The one shortfall of the Mosin as I see it, is it doesn't have a action like the Mauser and the Mauser's gas relief that's made in the action. The M39 is one of the best balanced WW2 rifles I've shot thou.The sights are much easier to see than the Mauser's.On the barrel floating again, I recently bought a new Rem. 700 with the syn. stock. The barrel is floated except for two plastic points at the end of the stock. After I filed those off the, rifle groups improved.As I said earlier, try yours both ways. Reading on the Mosin web sites will give you a lot of help. The above is just my opinion and what has worked best for me.Once you get the M39 tuned in and shoot it some, you'll have to have another one.Good luck and good shooting.

[Player]

this is what i did this weekend with my M39, using egyptian surplus(i guess? it had arabic on it)
sights were on 150 so i guess that's why it's shooting a bit higher

but unlike the czech MG ammo, this was surefire. recoil wasn't as bad as i anticipated(compared to M44's..)
sights were fine. and why would anyone need to do anymore work on the trigger? seriously? it doesn't get any better than how it is already!!!

now i need to get some better ammo to test it out. i just with they still had that russian sniper ammo around

[SteelCore]

On every mosin I've picked up at a local gunshow or sho (dozens here) M-44s and 91.30s, I've been able to wiggle the end of the bbl in the stock. My M-44 and 91/30 are like that.

I've been told that shuldn't be the case, but it is. I used to worry about it, but as I got the copper solvent and cleaned the mosins, and got used to shooting them, my groups really improved.

Last week, I shot 4 of 5 rounds in paper that were touching, with one about 1/2 inch away from them.

I used to think about shimming or using beddoung compound in the stock, but I didn't.

At 200yds, I can hit a bowling pin, thst's good enough for me. At 300yds, the mosin 91.30 will shoot minute-of enemy just fine.

The M-44 is an Izhvesk 1944, and the 91/30 is a tila 1938.

When we disassembled my friend's new Izhvesk 1939 91/30, there was a metal shim under the trigger guard, from tscrew by the magwell. He didn;t even clean copper out of the bbl, an has only shot my mosins a few times. His first fourh shots at 50yds clipped the same hole, and the 5th was a flier some inch or 2 away. Obviously, the shim mentioned on the high road helps on more than just the m39s.

As for ammo, I like the performance of the Czech 172gr steelcore, but it is drying up. It kicks! The Hungarian is fine stuff, creates a great fireball at dusk outta the shorter mosins. The bulgy is good, cheap, but not as pretty...lotsa dinged cases, but they fire thru the mosin OK (wouldnt recommend the bulgy for SVTs or other autoloaders tho..I had a lot of cases split after firing and examining them). THe lighter 147gr Czech steelcore is good stuff, too.

I haven't run the ammo types I have for accuracy testing yet...that is a neat idea. I know the longer bbl of the 91/30 I have seems to deliver more accuracy than the m-44 but that might be due to the increased sight radius.

I have yet to get a Finn or an ex-sniper mosin, but I did see a really nice mosin sniper with pu scope that matched the rifle...for 650USD. I bet that thang rocked!

I dinnt buy my mosins as match grade shooters, but afer seeing their perfomance at 50,100,and 200yds, I'd be comfy taking a shot at large game (like elk) off the irons and feeling sure I'd score a heart shot.


As for ammo prices, they were up when I was at the gunshow a week ago. The 880rnds of spam-can packed czech 147gr steelcore cost about 115USD, still not bad. a few months ago, it was only about 10-12 cents per round. I ALWAYS buy as much as I can afford of this ammo. I shoot about 200-400rnds of it a month in 2-4 trips out to my buddy's place.

After the talkin in that Highroad thread, I might have to pick up some Wolf or S&B, or some commercial maker of Mosin-food, just to see what the mosin is really capable of. (I've been thinking the same about quality 762x39 ammo as well, since I bet the killer accuracy of my SKS and the OK accuracy of my AK could be improved by shooting more than Wolf down the tube)

[Norton]

Henry
That is a nice looking rifle, I wish I had been at the range with $100 in my pocket. I think the stock looks great, is that some sort of Beech or Birch?

[harris hawk]

Henry, It seems you are becoming fond of your M39, imagine that:icon_biggrin:.
As for the trigger deal, most M39's are super, just the way they are. I'm like you, it's hard to imagine one needing any more sweetness in the trigger. Usually all that's needed is a COMPLETE disassembly of the trigger group, cleaned thourghly , and lubed with some sweet slick'um, in all the right places:wink:. The Finn armorers didn't get paid for the rifle by the Finn government, unless the rifle would shoot MOA at 300m, IIRC. The armorers would also stamp both the barrel, and front sight blade with the height of the blade in mm, so that if the front sight blade had been changed out, they'd know someone had been dicking with it. Dicking with the rifle was frowned upon by the government, and armorers. Does your rifle have numbers stamped in the top of the front sight blade, and on top of the barrel, directly behind the front sight assembly? If so, do they match?
BTW, nice rifle, congratulations:icon_biggrin:.
Michael

[Buelligan]

DUDE, That is the sweetist M39 I have ever seen. I would have paid 300usd for that bad boy.:thumbup:

[mofocus]

you stole it!!!