g3 mags in the CETME?

[Karl E. Hungus]

I thought i read somewhere that the cetme rifle can take the g3 mags, so i got two recently cause there pretty much dirt cheap anywhere you look. (plus ive seen pics on this forum of cetmes with 'em in) mine seem to fit but dont lock in. can i file a part on the mag to make it fit that extra little nudge, or is this a no no?

ps i checked around the board but i coundnt find any other threads about it in the recent history, or the faq, thats why im posting.

[nalioth]

The Cetme rifle can use Cetme mags and G3 mags.

However the :century: :century: :century: never made a Cetme to spec. You may need to evaluate your mag situation and decide what you want to do.

1) fix all the mags

or

2) fix the mag well

[jfowl31]

you need to determine if the mag is riding high enough or if it needs to ride higher. you dont want to mod the wrong place and have the mag ride too high or low.

if its riding high enough, and just wont lock it, file a tad off the shelf that locks in at the mag catch.

if it needs to ride a little higher, you can either file a little off the top of the ears on the mag or take a bit off the bottom of the magwell.

BUT before you do all that, just put the mag in and give it a massive smack on the bottom... most all of the G3 mags seat in mine by doing that, and once you do it a couple times, they mold and fit and lock in perfectly.

give it a try, its fixed more than a few mags for a bunch of members here.

[bataanboy]

I can't honestly say I've ever bought a G3 mag that won't fit and feed in my CETME. I bought some 5 rounders from SARCO that I had some issues with but not alloy G3 mags.

[pigpen]

Do whatever it takes, but don't mess with the reciever. If the mags don't lock in place take a dremel tool or a file and take some of the metal off of the part of the mag that contacts the receiver. Those little do-hickeys that protrude from the side of the mag(yea, I don't know the technical term for them) kept the mag from connecting with the mag catch. I had to file a little off of some of my g-3 mags but they all work now. Out of the 20 or so I have about half needed some adjustments.

[okie shooter]

Should say, in century made cetmes(century has been said used a g-3 receiver) and on builts on g-3 receivers they will work. If you have a mars, you may have issues with them but not many of those out there.

[jfowl31]

Do whatever it takes, but don't mess with the reciever. If the mags don't lock in place take a dremel tool or a file and take some of the metal off of the part of the mag that contacts the receiver. Those little do-hickeys that protrude from the side of the mag(yea, I don't know the technical term for them) kept the mag from connecting with the mag catch. I had to file a little off of some of my g-3 mags but they all work now. Out of the 20 or so I have about half needed some adjustments.

So why wouldnt you "mess with the receiver"... it is in fact the part that is out of spec... those mags are all in spec. Me personally, I'd fix the problem rather than monkey up some perfectly good mags.

A little TLC and the receiver is back in spec in a matter of minutes with a belt sander or the likes. Spend a few minutes on the magwell, or spend a few minutes on each of 50-100 magazines... Ill do the magwell.

ETA... YMMV, I didnt need to do anything to my magazines or magwell except giving the magazines one good firm smack.

[pigpen]

jfowl,
I like to err on the side of caution. I'd rather not screw somthing up, & knowing me I might if I did mess with the reciever.

[M1 Tanker]

So why wouldnt you "mess with the receiver"... it is in fact the part that is out of spec... those mags are all in spec. Me personally, I'd fix the problem rather than monkey up some perfectly good mags.

A little TLC and the receiver is back in spec in a matter of minutes with a belt sander or the likes. Spend a few minutes on the magwell, or spend a few minutes on each of 50-100 magazines... Ill do the magwell.

ETA... YMMV, I didnt need to do anything to my magazines or magwell except giving the magazines one good firm smack.



Why fix a $150 part that you can screw up, when you can fix a $1 part?

[jfowl31]

because the $150 part is out of spec, not the $1 part...

Same reason I filed on my receiver and not on my Claw mount, even though the mount is cheaper... I want to fix the parts that are wrong, rather than "fixing" parts that arent wrong to begin with.

Once you fix the magwell, any cheapo or expensive mag will seat without modification. And if these mags ever get expensive, I can imagine the ones that have been monkeyed and filed will not be worth near as much as those that are still in original condition.

It doesnt seem like filing or belt sanding a magwell is something that you can really screw up... Unless you were to take off a TON without fit checking... but with careful effort, it could be fixed easily.

Its justmy opinion, but I dont like fixing things that arent broke to compensate for something else that is... no matter which one costs more, Ill just fix the broken part........

It kinda reminds me of why Century ground the bolts... they were "fixing" the wrong problem, rather than working on the more expensive stuff and "fixing" the real problem... well that doesnt really relate now that I typed it, but it sounded right in my head.

Either way... just my opinion, and as always... YMMV :)

[robocop10mm]

I have both an HK-91 and a Century CETME. The only mag that won't work in both is a Thermold that does not fit in the CETME mag well.

[M1 Tanker]

As you said, you didn't have to fix yours.

On mine, my magazine catch would have needed to have been moved. So no, I didn't want to re-cut the magazine catch hole and weld up the openings. It would have been easy to screw it up and ruin the entire receiver.

I'm a firm believe in work smarter, not harder.

[pigpen]

I have seen too many rifles ruined when some one tried to "fix" them. One was a low-cap AK that had been converted to take the double stack mags. The person who did the "fix", took way too much metal off the mag well. The result was a rifle that could only be shot when the mag was held in place.

jfowl, I'm not knocking you & I'm sure you take your time & pay attention to what you are doing when you take a file to any gun or part. I just don't feel comfortable telling a person I don't know to do somthing to an expensive gun that may be detramental. k

[jfowl31]

Im ot talking about the magcatch issue M1... thats why I specified to make sure the problem was in the bottom of the magwell... The magcatch issue is a much bigger and harder problem to fix.

The magwell fix is noting near what it takes to make a low-cap AK into High-cap... were talking about taking a couple hundredths off the bottom (normally just the front half) of the magwell with a file of sander. Telling somene not to do that is like telling these guys to take their rifle to a gunsmith to get their bolt gap checked... its a simple procedure in my eyes.

But then again, Ive never done the procedure myself, I just can't see it being that much of a problem.

The magcatch issue is another story M1... thats why a mag or 2 need to be sacrificed (possibly) to figure out where the problem lies.

The way I would diagnose it is to file on the ears of the mag until it seated, and then see if the rifle functioned reliably. If it does, then I would fix the magwell. If the rifle hangs up, then youve made the magazine ride too high. In this case, you'll either have to lower the magcatch (hard) or just take off some material on the magazines where the magcatch engages until it locks in.

M1... you said you had to raise your magcatch, meaning the magazine would lock in, but was not sitting high enough. Without doing what you did, how would you suggest remedying the problem without doing that. Would you add material to the magazine somehow where it locks in or what? With that problem, I dont see another solution besides what you did, though I could be missing something.

I thought the general concensus was to fix the out of spec parts not just make it work... to each their own, but Id fix it.

[tomoshenko]

because the $150 part is out of spec, not the $1 part...

Same reason I filed on my receiver and not on my Claw mount, even though the mount is cheaper... I want to fix the parts that are wrong, rather than "fixing" parts that arent wrong to begin with.

Once you fix the magwell, any cheapo or expensive mag will seat without modification. And if these mags ever get expensive, I can imagine the ones that have been monkeyed and filed will not be worth near as much as those that are still in original condition.

It doesnt seem like filing or belt sanding a magwell is something that you can really screw up... Unless you were to take off a TON without fit checking... but with careful effort, it could be fixed easily.

Its justmy opinion, but I dont like fixing things that arent broke to compensate for something else that is... no matter which one costs more, Ill just fix the broken part........

It kinda reminds me of why Century ground the bolts... they were "fixing" the wrong problem, rather than working on the more expensive stuff and "fixing" the real problem... well that doesnt really relate now that I typed it, but it sounded right in my head.

Either way... just my opinion, and as always... YMMV :)
Always look at the label. If it says Monkeyville, Vt......fix that first.

I swear if I live to be 100 I will never buy a CAI built firearm again!

[SteelCore]

+1 to that.

Obviously, there are two schools of thought on this. one is fix the mag, other is fix the magwell. I guess they're both valid.

I'm in the first school. My original CETME mags fit just right, so I did not want to mess with the magwell to foul the fit of the intended mag just to get alloy mags or Thermolds to work.

Also, I don't have 50 mags (I store ammo in sealed cases, not mags.) so it is just as easy for me to mod the Thermolds I use now for 922r with some filing and sanding.

"And if these mags ever get expensive, I can imagine the ones that have been monkeyed and filed will not be worth near as much as those that are still in original condition."
-->The rationale of modding the receiver so you can sell your mags as unmodded is a non-starter for me. first of all, unles you have 50 mags you're prolly not gonna sell them sepeately from the CETME or HK you have--they usually get thrown in on the sale to sweeen the deal (as observed in years of sales in this forum and cetmerifles.com). Now if you mod the rifles magwell, you have 'altered' the CETME, which if you sell it could drive the proce down bcause the buyer might feel it has been 'monkeyed'.
Perhaps neither is an issue, since if you mod the rifle or the mags and you sell the whole shebang as a group, the buyer may not care.

"The way I would diagnose it is to file on the ears of the mag until it seated"
-->Dude, just a sec ago, you said dont mod the mag, now you're saying to do it? ;) Modding the mag lips past bending them is asking for a feed failure, IMHO. Use Rusty's method of checking the mag-to-carrier fit (the old dismantle a mag, insert magbody, look thru ag body up magwell as bolt goes acros mag) may take some prep time, but you can actually diagnose what the deal is.

Jfowl, you never had to do the mod. Lemme put it in tems of my situation that many yeasago:

I got a CETME! Cool, my first milsurp. I will love him, and pet him, and keep him, and feed him, etc.
Fires cool with these CETME mags. Hey those forum guys said the 1dollar G-3 alloy mags should work too! I'll get 10.
OK, 5 of 10 lock in, what about the other 5?
Oh, grined the magwell:052: or mod a few mags? Well, the mag was only a buck, and my prized CETME was 350...(busts out file on the mag, finds that repeated slamming of aluminum alloy mag will reshape the magstops on the magwell)
Cool, now only 2 wil still not fit....still the price was right
gets thermolds, repeats fitting procedure on mags with file

Basically, noce you start down the mag-mod road, you don;t want to mod the magwell, since it may make all the other modded mags not fit. and I'll sactifice a 100 mags b4 I mod the rifle. I got a good CAI build, mebbe the top 5% of their offering in accuracy and function (has a fugly weld on the cocking tube-receiver join, but thats cosmetic), and I ain't about to take the risk of reversing months/years of making it reliable.


"I thought the general concensus was to fix the out of spec parts not just make it work... to each their own, but Id fix it."
-->It is an interesting conundrum, to be sure--if Stamped CAI CETME magwells are ALL out of spec in the same way, perhaps they're in spec for monkeys? Does the old exception to the rule become the new rule?:3stooges:
:melt:

[jfowl31]

1. I didnt buy my mags to sell with the gun, and honestly, I dont really intend to sell the gun period. I bought the mags because the were a buck a piece, and I figured in a few years they might be worth 10... like a bunch of other mags that used to be dirt cheap. So I dont want to grind on them.

2. I WOULD sacrifice 1 mag to do some diagnosis. When I said I would mod 1 mag to diagnose, thats a pretty cheap diagnosis if you ask me.

3. I never said anything about modding mag LIPS... I said EARS... the little doodads on the side that hit on the sides of the mag well and stop the mag from going in further.

4. Anyone who knows anything about these rifles knows that things sometimes needs to be fixed, and I sincerely hope that a buyer doesnt consider fixing an out of spec part as "monkeying" the rifle... and if so, then he's not exactly what I would call knowledgeable. Thats like saying that because you replaced rollers, you monkeyed it. Fixing out of spec parts is a good thing to do in my eyes.

5. Like I said I didnt have to mod mine because its a cast receiver, and oddly enough it wont work with Cetme mags... So I sold all but 1 20-rounder, and 1 5-rounder, and bought G3 mags. But I paid close to $700 for my LTD, and if I found it to be out of spec, I wouldnt hesitate to do an easy mod to make it work...

6. YMMV!

agreed if you modded 50 mags to fit, you probably dont want to mod the magwell... the OP said G3 mags wouldnt fit, what to do? He still has both options... Neither way is necessarily the wrong way to do it... its all about whether you choose to modify the cheaper part, or the monkeyed part.

[texlurch]

Going back to the original post, he never said if he had CETME mags that fit correctly or not. He has a couple G3 that don't lock in all the way, which is not unusual. Most of mine take a healthy smack on the bottom to seat, but the CETME mags fit perfect.

So it is apples and oranges. If he has CETME mags that fit correctly and wants to run the cheapo G3 mags, he should leave the gun alone and file a bit on the G3's, AFTER doing one and verifying it doesn't sit too high when locked in.

I would never file on the mag well, unless the CETME mag didn't lock in.

[97th Signalman]

I spent a year messing around with my G3 mags with a file and got most of them to work more or less OK but I still had occasional feed problems or mags that wouldn't really lock up tight and fall out under fire. Then I fixed my mag well and mag latch and it now easily seats and locks in any good standard G3 or CETME mag. I trashed my six doctored mags (after salvaging my US followers and floor plates that I need for compliance) and kissed my $12 (six mags @ $2.00 ea.) goodbye and never looked back. I regret the year of work that I spent fussing around with a solution that was only a band-aid for the real problem...my monkey-built stamped receiver.

I am now a strong advocate for fixing the mag well. If you have the competence and confidence to fix it yourself then do so. I had my gunsmith (who is s buddy and a well-regarded builder of battlerifles) teach me how to fix mine and we did it together. I filed down the mag well until the mags could be pushed up to the proper height. Predictably they were still loose, indicating that the mag latch was too low. My gusmith pulled the latch and built it up with weld and then had me file it for precise height adjustment while he checked it frequently. Now my G3 mags can be snapped in with a crisp slap and they latch in very positively and the feed is perfect. Recently I got my hands on a couple used CETME mags and even a couple new G3 five-round mags and they just latched in perfectly with out any fussing at all.

Do it right...fix the rifle. Get help if you need it. You will never regret it.

[DAA1]

Needed the mag well tweaked a little, now it takes both g3 and cetme mags...

Rule of thumb.... tweak carefully.. Now the cetme my brother in law got worked fine with whatever mags we tried.. go figure.

Sometimes you got to tweak the mag well. Kinda like M&M almond joy... sometimes you feel like a nut, sometimes you don't.

[texlurch]

The mag catch versus dimple location is a little different between the CETME and G3 mags. So fixing for one will leave the other off a bit. Since all the receivers are stamped on G3 dies, there are some compromises going on.

It all comes down to whether the mag well and catch is out of spec, and how much.

Example:
My cast CETME is snug on the CETME mag, and I have to give the G3 mags a solid whack to get them to lock in. Should I start "fixing" the gun to fit the G3 mag better? I think "no". I prefer to use the original mags in this gun, and fiddling to get the G3 to fit better would loosen up the CETME mags.
Now, my stamped CETME wouldn't lock in the CETME mags, and studying it the mag seemed to sit not quite high enough in the receiver, so I fixed the well on that one. The block at the rear also had to be filed to allow it to rotate back enough.

Every case is different, so I would never say to "fix the gun" without knowing the entire story.

The original thread said he picked up a couple G3 mags and they were tight, but never said if he had CETME mags that locked in and fed fine.

Apples and oranges, people!