AK rear sight question...

[SteelCore]

Ok, I was at the range last weekend, and I was giving the AK rear sight a good look. the romanian has the lowest setting labeled "P" which I assume is some abbreviation for a word that means "battle sights" or "close up," or something. I'll get back to this in a sec.

From 100M on out, the sight leaf is made to climb up a parabolic rise that increases the height of the rear sight, as expected.

So, at about 50yds, I was trying the 100M sight, and found the point of impact to be a bit below the point of aim (about 2-3inches). This makes sense, since the arc of the bullet would still be rising at 50yds to meet the point of aim...had I been at 100M, then the POA and POI would be the same.

Now back to the battle sights. when you move the slider to the "P" setting, it comes up a rise that seems equal in height to somewhere in the 200-300M area on the parabolic sight base. When I used this at 50yd, it put the POI 12-15 inches high.

SO my question is: What is the use of the "P" sight? What are they trying to say, that in CQBs (where ppl won't be squinting thru sights anyway) ppl tend to aim/shoot too low?

I don't recall seeing this battle sights setting on the Mosins or the SKS. The open battle sight for a CETME is good form 0-100M, and the POI rises for each peep sight after that.

So what gives? Anyone know?

(My inital guess might be that at 20M, the bullet is still on the rise and the first time it crosses the sight plane is 20M if it is set between 200-300M, similare to the trajectory of a round from a CETME..and mebbe they wanted to take the guesswork out of it for the avg russian warfighter who may not have had trig or geometry.)

[tanstaafl4y]

In the US army on the M-16/M-4 the battle sight setting is dedigned to provide "hits" at multiple ranges. I dont have my FM's with me at work but IIRC if a M-16 is set for battle sight and you aim center of mass (heart) on a man sized target you will hit your target somewhere between the belt and shoulders from 0 meters to 300 meters.

/for a similar concept search for "grazing fire" as it relates to a machinegun.

[okie shooter]

In a referance "P" may stand for Point blank range, not sure but thats what I read. BTW the parabolic sight, on older rifles was ment to create a beaten zone, not placeing your shots, but devlopeing plungeing fire within a range, when massed with other rifles this can be as punishing as machine gun fire.

[tanstaafl4y]

Right before the forum took a dump I drew a lovley picture.

Okie has a point about plunging fires. The "old soviet" doctrine invoked waves of assault with massed fires rather that the fire and manuver concept in the USA.

Look at my MS PAINT...it it teh awesome!!!111eleventy

[amd65]

Don't forget the low barrel axis as compared to sight axis--this will affect POI at closer range (50yards as opposed to 100).
Different countries use different letters to denote the battle sight setting on the AK, and, for sure, "P" does not mean "point of impact".

[turbothis]

oh my god! i have always wondered what the hell that is since i got my first kit.

my yugo rpk's say O
and the rommy's say p

i love learning................

[k98k792]

The p is a 300 yard battle setting.

[jfowl31]

From what Ive been told, that setting is the battle setting, and is 300 yards as K98 said... but I dont think you should be shooting 12-15" high at 50 yards... the bullet path shouldnt be that high that fast. Maybe more like 5-6".

Also, shooting at 50 yards on the 100 meter setting shouldnt be that low either. The 7.62x39 I believe if I remember right is actually on its way down at 100 yards because its not exactly a flat shooting gun. This means that it crossed the sight path somewhere closer to you, and at 50 yards, you should be relatively close to POA. Maybe just a hair low... I would be that you are just aiming low when you shoot at 50 yards with it on that setting. If you are lollypopping at 50 yards, its much more drastic that it is at 100... the angles are much more drastic over that shorter distance, that could account for you shooting so low. I dont have an AK sitting right here in front of me, but if I remember correctly, the barrel is only someting like 2.5-3" below your sights, so the POI should be at least be above that.

Ill need to look up the ballistics charts that I have, but I am pretty sure that if you are 12" or more high at 50 yards, you are basically just lobbing bullets out to 600 yards or more.

One thing to maybe ponder... I cant remember what military rifles are this way, but Im pretty sure its the K31... 100 yards is made for aiming POI, no lollypop. and beyond that, they set up the rear sight so that you can lollypop the target since the front sight blade would cover a man sized target beyond that distance.

[jfowl31]

Only chart I can find right off-hand shows that if you hit about 3" high at 100 yards, and POA at 200... I would imagine and guess that youd be 5-6" high at 100 to extend the curve to reach out the 300 yards... that would mean you should only be 2-3.5" high at 50 yards on the 300 meter setting.

[amd65]

K31's can be equipped with different front sight blades, to take account of individual rifle differences and shooter preference. My own requires a six o'clock hold at 100 yards to hit the X with the rear set at 100. That was how it came from Switzerland.
Steelcore, have you sighted in your Romy at 100 yards using the 100 setting?

[hunter_la5]

steelcore, how does your gun shoot at 100 yards with the 100 yard sight? what I'm getting at is, have you adjusted the sights to get proper zero, or are you just shooting this thing right out of the box? none of my milsurps have been zeroed when I got them

[hunter_la5]

when you move the slider to the "P" setting... at 50yd, it put the POI 12-15 inches high

according to my ballistics calculator, the bullet should hit 4.24 in high at 50 yards for a 300 yard zero, 8.19 inches high at 100, 10.14 in high at 150, and then drop to the target

so as jfowl said, the bullet should only be high in the 3-4 inch range, not 12-15 inches




So, at about 50yds, I was trying the 100M sight, and found the point of impact to be a bit below the point of aim (about 2-3inches).



at with the 100 yard sight, the bullet should hit less than half an inch above the POA at 50 yards, not 2-3 inches. it sounds to me like your 100 yard sight is zeroed to 300 yards....

[k98k792]

This may help
http://www.gunsnet.net/Linx310/sightin.htm

[jfowl31]

according to my ballistics calculator, the bullet should hit 4.24 in high at 50 yards for a 300 yard zero, 8.19 inches high at 100, 10.14 in high at 150, and then drop to the target

so as jfowl said, the bullet should only be high in the 3-4 inch range, not 12-15 inches





at with the 100 yard sight, the bullet should hit less than half an inch above the POA at 50 yards, not 2-3 inches. it sounds to me like your 100 yard sight is zeroed to 300 yards....


where'd ya get that ballistics calculator... Ive been in need of a good calculator for a while now, but havent found one Im real happy with. Got a copy?

[SteelCore]

Went out to the long range this past wknd, and shot the AK at 100 and 200yds. Seems to be doing fine at those distances, go figure.

We were shooting these rubber heads you get at beauty schools--they're like big barbie doll heads, and they come with lotsa hair, and the students use them until all that is left is a bald barbie doll. They even have diff names--
I whapped Chrissy a few timeas at 100yds, and Anne at 200yds took one on the chin and between the eyes. :rockon:

If you know someone in a beauty school, go get a few of these. they just throw them away. Beats shooting bowling pins!

Shot it at 50yds, seemed fine on the 100M setting.

[kevin]

this one has worked well for me, especially the 54r ammo, you can get the data from 7.62x54r.net and plug the values in. Helped with my 9130 sniper and PSL

http://www.biggameinfo.com/BalCalc.aspx

[okie shooter]

Remember when trying to get range and distances based on other distances, the bullet will travel thru a point of aim twice if a upward parabolic, once on the way up and once on the way down, thus to be true, you almost need to shoot targets at many distances to know where you are if you truely want to hit things at longer ranges.