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View Full Version : At what point does a flat become a receiver



Stormfront
04-30-2010, 02:26 PM
I've posted on another board. Is it a receiver when welded?

Woodman in MO
04-30-2010, 02:33 PM
I'd say when it is bent.

Jsquared
04-30-2010, 02:39 PM
I'd say when it is bent.

Ditto. Im sure legally it would be as soon as it is modified in any way from how it was sent from the manufacturer. If 80% is the threshold, 81% would be a receiver.

Stormfront
04-30-2010, 03:18 PM
May be when its bent, but its not functional. The criteria for me was always that it could be used to function. A flat with a v in it isn't functional in my opinion and therefore not a receiver. Is there a ruling on this somewhere?

okie shooter
04-30-2010, 03:22 PM
I think if its sold as a 80% receiver, then any work past that would make it a receiver, thus the ablity to sell it as a non receiver is changed at that point. For a flat, that might be fuzzier, but most makers will not refund anything on a receiver after any bends, thus IMHO, any bend makes is so.

Jsquared
04-30-2010, 03:47 PM
Does anyone know if the 80% thing is from the BATFE or just industry standard?

okie shooter
04-30-2010, 03:50 PM
If you do any research on this, 80% is fuzzy, thus there is nothing offical that I know of, thus manufactures say what is or isnt 80%.

If the manufacturer claims 80%, thus IMHO I say if anything is done you go above that threshold.

Jsquared
04-30-2010, 03:57 PM
Im not meaning from flat to flat or manufacturer to manufacturer, I mean whether or not the ATF even has an 80% policy somewhere. Is it just a case of each manufacturer having to get approval for that particular flat design from the ATF before they can sell them as non-firearms?

okie shooter
04-30-2010, 04:21 PM
Jsquared, I believe there have been instances of 80% receivers being declared firearms by the ATF and such, thus there is lots of lattitude in this definition.

http://www.tacticalinc.com/ar15-lower-receiver-forging-p-1108.html

From above


FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS:

1. Can you supply receivers in an "80% Configuration"? - ATF does not recognize an 80% definition and in order to sell receivers that have some machine work completed, we would need to get ATF to provide a written opinion that the amount of machine work did not make it a receiver. In the past on other projects, ATF has held that machining holes etc would at that point "designate its purpose" as a receiver and not a paperweight. Therefore, we will only sell raw forgings such as these or completed receivers that require an FFL transfer. No partially machined forgings are available including forgings that would have the magwell already edm cut.



Basically there is a reciver to BATF and not a receiver to them, thus the 80% seems to be a number picked up by manufacturers to give a nomenclature to a item which can with work be finshed into a receiver but at their thought is not.

IMHO many 80% receivers for ar's may have enough features if they wanted to be made to work, remember rubber bands and shoe strings can be used to make a machine gun according to the powers that be too.

Jsquared
04-30-2010, 04:30 PM
Good deal, thanks for the info. I was betting the 80% was exactly what you said, a way for manufacturers to get hits on Google :).

Stormfront
05-02-2010, 10:25 AM
ok different question then along the same lines.

If you participate in a bend party in a different state, do you have to transfer the receiver via FFL? IE, can you cross state lines to participate in a bend party?

Paperpuncher
05-02-2010, 01:49 PM
It's a different type of receiver...RHSP for a 1919A4 semi auto, but Halo now transfers it's 80% plates to FFL only. To me the whole thing is crazy, of course I'm kinda of a black and white type of person. You would think a formed piece of metal is a receiver or it's not, and if it is, I would think it would have to be functional. I know this is not how it is though.

Paperpuncher
05-02-2010, 01:50 PM
ok different question then along the same lines.

If you participate in a bend party in a different state, do you have to transfer the receiver via FFL? IE, can you cross state lines to participate in a bend party?

I think the question is: Are you transfering ownership or transporting a firearm?

weasel_master
05-02-2010, 02:03 PM
I think the question is: Are you transfering ownership or transporting a firearm?

Has nothing to do with transportation. If you manufacture the reciever, i.e. you attend the party and bend it yourself, no problem, no FFL transfer needed. If someone else bends the reciever for you, you would need it transferred from them to you, as once they bend it, it is now a firearm and needs to be handled according to the ATF.

okie shooter
05-02-2010, 02:14 PM
I think the idea would be if you can buy one there, you can make one. Thus for long guns and as long as where you are allows you to obtain a long gun, thus the manufacture of a receiver IMHO would be allowed. Its like in kansas I can buy a long gun, and thus I can obtain a receiver there too.

Just my thoughts though. Simular to weasel masters points above too.

Paperpuncher
05-02-2010, 05:11 PM
Has nothing to do with transportation. If you manufacture the reciever, i.e. you attend the party and bend it yourself, no problem, no FFL transfer needed. If someone else bends the reciever for you, you would need it transferred from them to you, as once they bend it, it is now a firearm and needs to be handled according to the ATF.

I thought he was building it in another state, then taking it home with him. In which case he would be transporting a firearm vs. transfering a firearm.

Stormfront
05-02-2010, 08:49 PM
OK

So I manufacture a receiver in State X and then drive all the way home.. that's cool by me. I think manufacturing AND crossing state lines is well, trouble.