Ammo industry insiders thoughts on current pricing

[nalioth]

Some interesting reading here on ammo prices by two long time ammunition industry guys.

http://www.perfectunion.com/vb/printthread.php?t=57479

[kevin]

i personally think alot of the shortage lately has been from people hoarding ammo and stockpilling it, which isnt really a bad thing if your one of those people


for me, i wasnt smart enough to see it coming and i ran out of 8mm, when most of my collection is 8mm!

i think i need to learn how to reload

[Planning]

it is still not to late to be buying ammo. watch for deals at old gun shops, pawnshops,garage sales, etc. run a cheap ad in the free paper " wanted to buy ammo" (don't limit your kind of ammo, it's all good for trading). tell friends you are looking for ammo.. there is a lot of ammo out there, you just are going to have to look for smaller quanities at a time. they will add up.

:airtight:

[okie shooter]

I like the comment about the fact that most of the former soviet bloc nations are holding stockpiles of unimportable steel ammo(abet mild steel) since pistols are built for 7.62x39. Kinda of sucks, wonder what the price of ammo would be if that stock could be released?

[pigpen]

I like the comment about the fact that most of the former soviet bloc nations are holding stockpiles of unimportable steel ammo(abet mild steel) since pistols are built for 7.62x39. Kinda of sucks, wonder what the price of ammo would be if that stock could be released?

It'd be better. Plus I like steel.

[nalioth]

It'd be better. Plus I like steel. What most people don't realize is that the steel in the "steel core" ammo that was used for decades is just as soft as lead. Steel was used by the commies instead of lead for the same reason they use steel cases instead of brass...

Ease of manufacture and economics.

[okie shooter]

Its funny, they let ss109 and equal ammo to be imported back in to the country, as its specfically stated in the atf regs as not ap, but still steel cored.

[nalioth]

I will post an interesting snippet from a thread (http://www.akfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23798) on another forum:


Under the rules [xxUserxx] keeps linking to but apparently hasn't read are two definitions for AP ammo under the law. If the ammo doesn't meet those definitions then it is not AP, end of story.

Yes, the regs could be changed at a later date to make ANY ammunition AP, but currently there is no danger of ATF reclassifying the currently imported 5.45 ammo as AP under the existing laws and regulations. Arguing that making pistols to handle 5.45 ammo will somehow make ATF sit up and take notice that we need a revision of the law is like saying we shouldn't home build AKs and then post the results here because they will want to change the laws to regulate it. If you buy into that then why are you here helping other people to proliferate home builds?

The law and regs specifically and legally define AP ammo as one of two things:

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/legal/armor.htm
"(i) a projectile or projectile core which may be used in a handgun and which is constructed entirely (excluding the presence of traces of other substances) from one or a combination of tungsten alloys, steel, iron, brass, bronze, beryllium copper, or depleted uranium; or

(ii) a full jacketed projectile larger than .22 caliber designed and intended for use in a handgun and whose jacket has a weight of more than 25 percent of the total weight of the projectile."

Definition two is designed to specifically outlaw handgun caliber ammo that has an extra thick or reinforced jacket for the purpose of penetrating soft armor. Note the round must be "designed and intended for use in a handgun". Kinda hard to argue that a cartridge designed for a rifle 30 years before pistols for it came along is handgun specific ammo. Non starter right there. In any event the jacket is not 25% of the weight anyway.

Definition 1 is the one we have to worry about. Note the definition says the core must be "constructed entirely" of one or more of the prohibited metals listed to be considered AP. Note also lead is not one of those metals. As [xxUserxx] has posted several times, the cutaway view of the projectile in question does contain a section of lead separate from the steel. For this reason it cannot be classified as AP under the law because the core is not constructed entirely of steel, it also has a lead component inside. Same reason the SS109 ammo is not considered AP under this law, the bimetal core does not meet the definition.

Don't believe me? How about James Bardwell, one of the most respected Lawyers out there fighting for our second amendment rights.

http://yarchive.net/gun/politics/armorpiercing.html

"4) CONSTRUCTION - The bullet must either have a core made ENTIRELY out
of one or more of the listed metals, or be full metal jacket type
bullets with a jacket comprising more that 25% of its
weight. Thus SS109/M855 .223 bullets are not covered,
because their core is only partly steel, and partly lead. Lead
is not a listed metal, and bullets with cores made partly out of lead
are OK. ATF has expressly ruled that SS109/M855 bullets are not covered."


[xxUserxx] has also repeatedly said one cannot fire AP ammo out of a handgun EVER or they are in violation of the AP ammo law. I cannot seem to find that provision in the link he provided to ATF. The only restrictions placed on an individual are they cannot make AP bullets and if a crime is committed and the person is convicted, a handgun and AP ammo for it are an additional charge and prison time tacked onto the sentence. Licensed Importers and sellers can't legally sell the stuff, but unlicensed people can. Again, reference Bardwell link above.

I don't know how to make it plainer or more "from the horse's mouth" than the ATFs own website and the legal opinion of the top lawyer in the firearms rights field.

The above is the only factual stuff on the thread, imho.

[okie shooter]

I know some steel good, all steel bad no matter how soft, Interesting bistmith is heaver than steel(but I think that it would fragment, but heck make a steel jacketed bismith bullet) wonder if that would work and get it banned too. Ironically the goverment has so much DU on hand and they would love to find other uses for it, so they can get rid of it. They have tried in the past to find commerical uses as its so dence.