Feeding Problem

[G]

I finally made it to the range today after getting my bolt gap problem fixed. However, the problem I had today was every few rounds one would not feed. It would get pinched between the bolt and the chamber. I wish I had pictures. I figure it is either the magazine or it needs a good cleaning/lube. I will try those two things, but if there is something I am missing please let me know. I'm not sure any help you might have would be greatly appreciated.

[jfowl31]

a few things to check as well as cleaning and trying new mags... its probably just 1 thing, butif you get to the range, and its still happening, it will be frustrating.

check and make sure the recoil rod (spring guide) is dead nuts straight as you can tell. straighten accordingly... if its bent slightly, it can cause the carrier to bind and slow the action.

check your ejector and make sure nothing it dragging on the bolt/carrier there when the action is cycled. This can also slow the action.

make sure those flutes are really clean.. use a 45 cal brush to clean them if you dont have a chamber brush. if they are dirty, extraction is harder, and this can slow the action.

other than that, if its a new build thats being broken in, just drench it with oil and run some ammo through it, then clean the hell out of it. that has been reported to break them in pretty well.

if its trying to chamber and stopping short, its probably just a little slow on timing... if its catching the rounds a little wrong and jamming because of that, it could be mag related. Id try a few different mags and see if you can sort it out with that if the other checks dont reveal anything.

Good luck with it, and post back with whatever you find... Im sure others will report a couple more things to check. Its nice to be informed of any possible things to look at instead of having to come back and check for more stuff... Id make a list, run through it all at home and again at the range.

Do it do it when manually cycling, dry cycling, or only when firing? or all 3?

[G]

jfowl31, thanks alot for your help, i knew i should have brought more mags w/ me. it did not happen during manual cycling only during firing. i dont know cetme very well yet, but it acted alot like my fals w/ a bad mag if that helps. I gave it a good cleaning, and the flutes were a little dirty, ejector doesn`t seem to get caught on anything, the recoil rod seems dead straight.
Hopefully I can make it out to shoot this weekend with more mags (g3's and cetme). I will also take along another butstock. I will let you know what happens.

Greg

[jfowl31]

Whats your bolt gap, and what sized rollers are you using.

If you've got some room to play with, rollers and new components (LP and Bolt head) can be used to time the system if you still have problems.

If it works perfectly dry cycling, I'm thinking maybe the timing is off a little bit so that the bolt doesnt unlock quick enough, and it short-strokes a little bit.

This can be caused by a hangup somewhere (like the ejector riding the bolt, and the recoil rod being bent) or if the bolt gap is a tad too low, and the bolt doesnt unlock easy enough.

I forgot to ask originally, but what ammo are you using? If you are using commercial, the cases could be sticking in the chamber as well... these rifles were built for 7.62 NATO, not 308 winchester, even though it will chamber and fire both. Figured Id better throw that out, as many problems can arise shooting 308 through it.

It could be a combination of a couple things like slow timing and a bad mag, but when you dry cycle, you are giving the bolt the full strength of the spring, so it may overpower the problems a bad mag could cause. So fixing a mag issue could solve the problem, or fixing another issue could solve it. Theres so many different variables, that if they are all just a little bit off, it can cause problems.

Keep diagnosing it... youre on the right track with trying new mags, and a new buttstock. If the ejectors not riding the bolt, the next thing I woul do is tweak the BG a little bit (raise it more if you can), and see how that effects operation.

[jfowl31]

a couple more things... after a little research I found your post about the bolt gap here... http://www.militaryfirearm.com/Forum/showthread.php?p=13860#post13860

what it sounds like after reading that is your new bolt that you put in there is resting on the cocking handle. If the bolts are both unmolested, they should produce very similar gaps... internal wear on a bolt may lower it a few thousandths, but not 16.

So you could, theoretically, be hurting the rifle if the carrier is resting onthe cocking handle. this means that every time the bolt slams home, it puts all sorts of stress on the cocking handle and the sheetmetal of the cocking tube, AND with it resting, it never fully locks the bolt.

I'd check that before firing anymore, and if thats not the problem, perhaps the original bolt was just SEVERELY worn or it had minus sized rollers in it or something. That just sounds fishy to have 2 unground bolts giving gaps so different. 16 thousandths is a MILE in these rifles. That's the difference of being at the very top end of spec, to out of spec completely on the bottom end.

[rustypirate]

How does your mag fit in the mag well?

Is it loose or tight?

When was the last time you cleaned the mag?

did you "tap" the magazine to seat the rounds to the rear?

As you stated you fixed your bolt gap problem, I would think that this is related to the mag, or the mag well.

One more question.... did you have to "tweak" that mag to get it to lock in, or did it fit OK to begin with?

[jfowl31]

well crap, a little more research and I found another thread where you found your carrier issue, and fixed it... my fault.

So whats your gap now with the new LP and fixed carrier?

Sorry...... disregard my last post... [/foot in mouth]

[G]

I'm back. Thanks for your imput. This is what I have. I started out with .002 bolt gap when I bought it. With a new locking piece plus 4 rollers and a new bolt, I have .010 and I have a gap at the cocking handle I'm sure the bolt carrier is not hitting it. So I am hoping a good cleaning plus different mags will help it. Oh yeah, the cetme mags fit real tight and g3 mags fit a little bit looser. Thanks guys, Greg.

[G]

Well I just wanted to let you guys know my first cetme is now up and running! Thanks to all of your help! The feeding problem was caused by the ejector getting pinched bad about halfway through the bolt head. I filed it a bit but it was not helping, anyway I finially figured out that the buttstock was forcing the trigger group too high in back. once I enlarged one of the buttstock pin holes the rifle cicles like a charm, no more binding ejector and I can now push both pins out by hand. It shoots straight, cycles great and my bolt gap is still .10 I am thrilled! I know I never could have fixed all of her issues without all your help.


Thanks everyone, Greg


P.S.- Once I get wood on it I will post pics.

[Leadandlevers]

Pretty much the same thing happened to me constantly.

Turned out that the recoil rod was a little bent.

Replaced the recoil rod, tried a bunch of mags.

Still seems to FTF about once per mag. A couple of mags seem to do it every 3 rounds. Those have a bent left lip.

The bolt gap is at .15 mm, unground bolt.

The ejector and trigger group have been worked on by Bill Springfield, so there are no more FTE.

I have a new carrier group from APEX that I haven't tried yet, which seems longer than the bolt carrier group that came with the gun by about 1/16th of an inch. Weird.

Now, it's just a little FTF, still a bit. Magazine well seems pretty loose with both HK and CETME mags. I guess I'm going to try to tighten it up a bit with a C-clamp.

[Smokehouse69]

Do any adjustments to your magwell slowly! Test fit several mags in between squeezes! :thumbup:

[nevada]

That's one piece of info to keep in mind about these rifles. I haven't heard about the buttstock messing things up before. Thanks for the info.