I've got a dumb Mag Q?

[wonderwolf]

Ok so Ya'll know how much I loooooove my Yugo UF right...k....I got to thinking after my good friend picked up some 20 round mags the other day if they actually used 30 round mags for these or not. Since these were made for tankers and guys falling out of the sky it kinda made sense to my to have perhaps a 20 round mag in the drop case or what not.

Or did they just all use 30 round mags and 75rnd drums?

[k98k792]

30 round mags were issue. Drums were issue for RPKs. The Rifle will fit in a M60 barrel bag with a 20 in it.

[wonderwolf]

cool I have wanted to get some 5 and 20 rounders but didnt even think if the 20's would fit while on the gun in the case...Those cases sure do come in handy don't they?

[SteelCore]

20 rnd tanker mags are hi-quality, too. I like em.

[wonderwolf]

Sooooo the 20 round mags were tanker issue???????? crap now I'm confused again...I feel like I'm back in philosophy class :icon_confused:

[SteelCore]

in Hungary or somesuch.

AK UFs were tanker issue in Poland, Yugoslavia, etc, but IIRC used 30 rounders.

[okie shooter]

Wonderwolf, I have read that the twenty rounders were as stated, for personal in armor carriers, made for a more compact package, the forties were made for the rpk gunners along with the drums(but they all work in everything). I also have read that the older guys in the units would get their hands on the forties for use in a standard ak, for more firepower, without getting all the weight of a drum.

The guys in from what I have read in combat on the ground wanted the steel mags over phenolic, due to their thought in a vest they might give some additional protection if hit, in my opnion maybe this would work maybe not. The additional metal might help in a pinch if you didnt set your rounds off. That said, steel schrapnal in your body shows up better than phenolic in a x-ray. I imagine these maybe just stories too.

There is one other thing about the twenties, they fit on a romy "G" with the front grip, it makes changeing mags easier than thirties.

[wonderwolf]

Thanks very much for the info........Now you have to tell me where you got your info from as I've been looking for a good AK-47 reference book for a while now.



:bash:

[nalioth]

Sooooo the 20 round mags were tanker issue???????? crap now I'm confused again...I feel like I'm back in philosophy class :icon_confused:Confused? Try this:

http://www.akforum.net/photos/magchart.jpg (http://www.akforum.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=93)



The guys in from what I have read in combat on the ground wanted the steel mags over phenolic, due to their thought in a vest they might give some additional protection if hit, in my opnion maybe this would work maybe not. The additional metal might help in a pinch if you didnt set your rounds off. That said, steel schrapnal in your body shows up better than phenolic in a x-ray. I imagine these maybe just stories too.
The mythbusters, er, box o' truth (http://www.theboxotruth.com/index.htm) did a test on this theory (http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot9.htm).

[Optimus Prime]

[QUOTE=okie shooter;18850]The guys in from what I have read in combat on the ground wanted the steel mags over phenolic, due to their thought in a vest they might give some additional protection if hit, in my opnion maybe this would work maybe not. The additional metal might help in a pinch if you didnt set your rounds off. That said, steel schrapnal in your body shows up better than phenolic in a x-ray. I imagine these maybe just stories too./QUOTE]

Ever wonder if it really works? hehe


http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot9.htm

[wonderwolf]

Ever wonder if it really works? hehe

Hold ma beer'n watch this



Taken from the last page of the website


Lessons learned:
1. AK magazine pouches filled with loaded magazines do not provide any significant protection from rifle fire.

2. The hit rounds may cook off, but this would not result in any major injuries. Not that it would matter much, as the wearer would already have a large hole through him.

3. Both the 5.56 and the 7.62 X 39 punch right through these magazines.

4. Shooting stuff is fun!

Thanks to Tman for the help. And a special thanks to C-4 for shipping me the mags. I think we learned a few things.

[okie shooter]

Remember though, I am thinking schrapnal, not high speed projectiles, In the eighties(the soviets invaded Afagastan in 1979, not today) I imagine soviet, body armor, wasnt as good as it is today against rifle bullets. It was in those days intended to stop secondary projectiles not bullets. Remember the US army started with Nylon/durlon, fiber vests in the early fifties to give solders in Korea some protection against secondary projectiles, thus twenty five years ago, I imagine the soviet vests wernt up to the snuf of todays vests. Heck the Us army vests of the era were for secondary fragments too.

[wonderwolf]

I was at the range yesterday and as always the first thing I do is dig through the trash. I usually find some wonderful things in there brass, Broken magazines, parts and once a full box off ammo :rockon:

Yesterday I got a odd surprise....I found a thick cardboard box that somebody used as a target with what looked like a 9mm round of some sort. Bullet looked to heavy for 380 but It might have been that as well...anyways I looked over the box and saw something shiny....the cardboard was thick stuff about 1/4" and here a bullet had "Split the card" and after about 2" of travel through the edge of the box it stopped...intact..on the side of the box. I was kind of amazed. I pulled it out fairly easy and looked over it.


I could see in some instances where a mag would stop a otherwise "lethal round" but it just depends on the variables and physics of it. I've heard stories where in korea a thick warm weather vest would stop a 30 carbine round yet a Level II vest would not have a chance against it. This is something I intend to disprove this summer when I get my testing frame done for the 2nd chance vests I have around to test.

[okie shooter]

Wonderwolf, you hear of the most unusual of things stoping potentnal leathal projectiles, steel belt buckles, bibles, flasks in pockets and such. I don't care what the guys at BOX O TRUTH, say, I imagine the guy in afagastan in the late seventies, and early eighties, given the choice of steel mags on top of his ballistic vest, vs phenolic ones, took the steel ones. I cannot imagine untill the ninties and the advent of ceramic armor, that the solder has any sort of chance against high speed projectiles, these were not what the older body armor was designed to defeat. Thus why I contend the stories of soviet troops in afagastan getting their hands on steel mags is proably true, In 1980 I imagine us body armor wasnt worth a darn against the rifle threats it faced either.(vietnam era jackets, even vietnam jackets were issued to troops into the ninties)

The first body armor in wide spread use was to defeat projectiles encountered by the eighth airforce over europe in the early forties, they found if they could stop the projectiles from hitting the guys in the bombers, not even high speed projectiles, just when steel moving fast and its sharp cutting into soft tissues and such. The casuality rate goes down(on aircraft, on long missions over europe, the golden hour of treatment might be more like five to six hours, till you could get a guy to a hospital, by that time the wound wouldnt be deadly but the fact he lost too much blood or shock would be the killer to a wound). Do some research on body armor in battle, its constantly weight vs protection, the first vests in Korea weighed eight lbs, almost the same weight as today, as that is a amount of weight felt to not impeed the solders mobality. Thus steel body plates didnt get wide spread issue, even though they would have worked. The army started looking at ballistic protection for troops as early as the turn of the 19th century, many layers silk(the strongest naturlal fibre) could stop bullets of the day, though it took twenty five or more layers. This is the theory of most ballistic fabrics, its not strong enough in one layer but in multipals with laminations for more strength, it works against what its designed for.

Even Korean war vests(watched "Pork Chop Hill" this weekend, and saw even that movie showed the guys in the late part of the active conflict, wearing balistic vests) defeated 68% of the projectiles that hit the solder, and I imagine reduced the velocity of the ones penetrateing. I imagine the Soviet Solder in afagastan, wearing their vintage of ballistic vests, took any advantage, preceived or not for protection. Against secondary fragments, I would take two peices of steel plus steel caseings atop of my vest to stop them. In the eighties very few troops were issued anything close to what the body armor that is issued today(for protection you see now in eight lb vests, they weighted closer to twenty five lbs., thus everyone thinks that its a apples to apples comparison, In the seventies and eighties I imagine that they were happy to stop guys getting killed by fragments, and strikes by pistol calibers, not rifle ones.

P.S. For all of the quoters of "Box O Truth", the soviets were issueing their first wide spread body armor to troops in afaganstan, in the early eighties(from this source ,http://www.sovietairborne.com/Equipment.html) , before that there was steel plate armor, used in urban fighting during WWII but nothing like the US or other allied powers worked on since.(the us was issueing its third generation of fabric based infantry armor, in the vietnam era stuff, and was almost ready to issue the kelvar fourth generation)

Thus of the era, the only thing a soviet era solder had prior, was his vest, to protect his torso from low speed but leathal projectiles. Thus two thin layers of steel gave far more protection than nothing against fragements.

The folks from "Box O truth", don't realize that there was no soviet body armor(or dont care,because it don't make their case, bullets vs magazines, they didnt test against slower projectiles, or other secondary objects in battle, which used to kill many troops too and why to some extend artillery was the "king of battle"(most casualties from artillery arn't not from direct strikes from artillery but more from secondary effects)) until early in the afgan fighting, and that like the body armor of the time, unless you want to wear twenty five lbs of the stuff or more(look up ranger body armor, the first stuff considered by the us to be bullet proof), untill now you didn't have "bullet proof" armor against normal battle field projectiles(rifle).

[wonderwolf]

Wasnt Teddy saved from a folded speach in his breast pocket he was about to give?

[k98k792]

Yep, from a .32 S&W.

[nevada]

The box o thruth does a test with the M1 carbine and clothing, and books stopping bullets. It's an interesting site. No shrapnel testing, though.