What is the easiest gun to build

[Buddymack]

I would like to read some opinions on Semi Auto Rifles what is the easiest gun to build.
Why you think this particular gun is easy would be nice info to include, things like parts availability and such and including budget is a factor also...so if you choose a certain weapon or gun I would like to know is it after you invest a couple thousand dollars worth of equipment, this or that is easy to set up ....or to understand....I am guessing the AR based rifles are the easiest so if it is it would be nice to see something than ...other than the AR I think ......fill in the blank:icon_biggrin:

[okie shooter]

AR's for sure if the upper is assembled.

[k98k792]

After the AR,I would say an AK,but you would have to find a kit with an intact barrel.
All you really need for an AK is modified bolt cutter to smash the rivets,a gear puller from Auto ZONE to pull the barrel from the trunnion, some all thread rod to repress the barrel, and some BFHs.

[M1 Tanker]

Build or assemble...there is a big difference.

I think anyone can buy an AR 15 kit and a lower and assemble it.

I personally believe a build involves some work :) Unfortunately, in this current parts kits market, its not nearly as inexpensive as it used to be. FALs are pretty easy to build, but the days of the $89 kit is gone.

So, build or assemble?

[Buddymack]

Build or assemble...there is a big difference.

I think anyone can buy an AR 15 kit and a lower and assemble it.

I personally believe a build involves some work :) Unfortunately, in this current parts kits market, its not nearly as inexpensive as it used to be. FALs are pretty easy to build, but the days of the $89 kit is gone.

So, build or assemble?

I would say the key word "build" is more what I am looking for or someone who is new to this..
So far from just what on the surface of what I have read, the AK based and possible VZ58 looks simpler to understand..
but I would sure like to read and I am sure others would like to read the opinions of you more experienced builders.
I guess the an absolute AR build is one of the easiest because it is designed to be put together with a wrench or special tool for the most part and it kind of seems to have that small block Chevy thing going for it.

[M1 Tanker]

An AR 15 is like buying a short block engine...the hard parts are done and you just bolt on the rest and drop it in. You don't have to install the crank, pistons, etc... Most AR kits the upper is pre assembled...and on ARs with new parts, headspace is a non issue.

I think FALs are the easiest and AKs, while not difficult if you read the how to guilds around, are harder. Some prebuilt receivers have all the holes, that may not be correct or you have to locate and drill the holes. Riviting is not difficult, but takes the right tools. Rolling your own receiver is a lot of fun on an AK, again just takes it to a high level of difficulty.

The pride and reward of building your own is what makes this hobby so much fun.

[Buddymack]

What is it about the FAL that makes it so easy? is it setting the headspace? or the whole general setup without special equipment?

I agree that building brings a satisfaction that money really can't buy...but I think I speak for many when I say you have to start somewhere...baby steps are something many of us guys don't like to admit to...do you remember that guy that asked all the dumb questions that you rolled your eyes at but were thankful he was in your class at the end of it...well that wasn't me I was the class clown ....but I remember that guy!

[okie shooter]

A FAL headspaces on the locking shoulder. Thus clocking the barrel may be tough, but when done, you can adjust the headspace with the shoulder. A drill index gives you the gages, and then if your shoulder is not right, you get the right one.

[M1 Tanker]

What Okie said.

Yes I remember, thats why many long time Gunboard/Cetmerifles/MilitaryFirearms guys still take the time to answer the easy questions instead of saying do a search, or go read the stickies. If I say that, I always provide a link to what should be read.

FALs require a receiver vise, a barrel vise (or a normal vise on the flats if you have the cajones) a bench vise and a breaker bar. Thats it to barrel the action. And like Okie said, some pin gages and headspace gages to figure out what size locking shoulder you need.

AKs require a press...at least the way I do them.

[HKILLER]

a g3 kit built with a ptr receiver would only take a few minutes if you have all the us made parts and bolt gap is good, just a few good welds need on the trunion and cocking tube.

[k98k792]

What Okie said.


AKs require a press...at least the way I do them.

They don't,but it makes them easier.

[Planning]

if you buy a press get a 20 ton HF press. i have never talked to anyone that bought a 20 ton instead of a 10 ton that regreated it, but plenty that bought a 10 ton press and they wished they had gotten the 20 ton press.

keep in mind that many that bought the 10 ton press are happy with it. it will do almost every thing that is needed for building guns.

if you wait for a sale and use a coupon it is only about $20 difference in price. ( i got mine for $139 OTD)

IMHO

ron

[SSwee]

Easiest is what you have the correct tooling for. Right tool for the job is the difference in the level of difficulty. I have done many jobs with work around tooling and it adds time and sometimes major frustrations to the equation. I have only done ARs and AKs. The ARs were more of an assembly due to cost and I don't have all the tooling yet for the uppers. The AKs were a breeze using a Nodak receivers and AK builder tooling. I splurged on the AK tooling because of how many kits I had gathered. The HF 12 ton press has done everything I've needed so far but I agree with Planning that if there is not much difference in price go with the larger press. I have a 30 ton pneumatic at the shop if needed.
SS

[Buddymack]

I agree that easiest would probably be what you have the correct tooling for, however there is another part of this equation that I would think needs to be pointed out..it seems as though the intricate procedures of headspacing seems to be in the lacking...
it is one reason why I posted the subject about AGI DVD's and upon reading the critiques I am somewhat let down, it seems like "similar to where I work" many procedures like to cover what can easily be figured out "to a point" but the meatier matters are held back.
I am interested in building many different guns, I am buying a 20 ton press "thanks for the tip BTW" I was wondering if I should go the extra mile ..but that being said were is the easier to understand directions? I was thinking a FAL would be easier until I read Holescreek tell another member here it is best he does trade or sell if he is not going to buy certain special equipment for trimming for headspace...all this to lose .001 seems negligible to me are the bullet rims that accurate?
walking away from this it would seem as what I expected that building an AR is more like an assembly ...
If headspace can be set by a gauge wouldn't that be easier?
I am leaning more to what it would seem as though an easier build would be a ready made G3 receiver build, but it would really hurt if you screwed up the welds ....and that wouldn't be easy....mercy!

[M1 Tanker]

Headspace on a fal is set by a locking shoulder that YOU install AFTER you measure the headspace with a gage. You don't know which size Locking shoulder to buy until your barrel the action and check headspace using your headspace gages AND pin gages to take the place of the locking shoulder.

Accurate? There is .004 between GO and NOGO on 7.62 NATO....so yes, .001 matters. There is only .006 between GO and FIELD.

To check headspace you need headspace gages for that caliber and know how to use them. Basically you clean everything and remove all foreign debris and oil. I remove the extractor, but not everyone does if their gage has a relief cut for it. The bolt should close on a go (using finger pressure) and NOT close on a no go. If it won't close on the go, you have to adjust it, depending on that weapon. If it will close on a NO GO, same them.

[Buddymack]

Headspace on a fal is set by a locking shoulder that YOU install AFTER you measure the headspace with a gage. You don't know which size Locking shoulder to buy until your barrel the action and check headspace using your headspace gages AND pin gages to take the place of the locking shoulder.

Accurate? There is .004 between GO and NOGO on 7.62 NATO....so yes, .001 matters. There is only .006 between GO and FIELD.

To check headspace you need headspace gages for that caliber and know how to use them. Basically you clean everything and remove all foreign debris and oil. I remove the extractor, but not everyone does if their gage has a relief cut for it. The bolt should close on a go (using finger pressure) and NOT close on a no go. If it won't close on the go, you have to adjust it, depending on that weapon. If it will close on a NO GO, same them.

That would make sense because if that much makes a difference it would seem as though even oil or dirty oil would give a false reading ....WOW

[M1 Tanker]

Yep....I clean, then degrease 3 times just to make sure!

[Buddymack]

if you buy a press get a 20 ton HF press. i have never talked to anyone that bought a 20 ton instead of a 10 ton that regreated it, but plenty that bought a 10 ton press and they wished they had gotten the 20 ton press.

keep in mind that many that bought the 10 ton press are happy with it. it will do almost every thing that is needed for building guns.

if you wait for a sale and use a coupon it is only about $20 difference in price. ( i got mine for $139 OTD)

IMHO

ron
I am waiting for the right deal on that I even joined their Inside Track club!
but thanks again for the bump in info I was looking at the 12 ton for 130 i would rather wait and get whats more effective.

[Planning]

i have posted this before, but if you only going to do 1 or 2 of the fals, then just send the barrel, receiver, bolt, bolt carrier, handguard bracket, to ken kubin ( he is a member here). he is very reasonable on rates. it is cheaper than buying all the special tools to do it.

i use to build mine, but i sold the tools and just packaged the parts up and sent them to him. he will set the timing, check the head space, install the locking sholder, etc. he has been right on on all of them. i think he has done 20+ of them for me already. when i get the parts back from him i just assemble the rest of the parts and shoot them.

(these are going to my grandsons and i wanted to make sure they were safe to shoot.)

ron

a couple example

[Buddymack]

That sounds like a good darn deal there! not to mention he seems like real good people and there is nothing wrong with supporting that!....many times I will walk out of a place because I smell arrogance...the last thing I want to do is feed that...
Too bad I couldn't send him my new CETME!

[ssg23inf]

The sten variations are easy builds too. A welder, drill, and dremel tool is all you need.