saiga 12 vs remington 870

[slackjaw]

hi i am looking for a remington 870 or a saiga just wondering what you guy thought of the saiga 12 i used to have 870 in 20 gauge but i gave it to my little brother.

[Optimus Prime]

Well... you looking for a semi or a pump? Other than that, they're both great guns.

[slackjaw]

semi or pump doesnt bother me i want somthing for shooting for fun and killing deer i dont hunt hunting implies i might fail

[M1 Tanker]

My 870 has always gone bang when i told it too. Your mod options are pretty limitless with over the counter, readily available products. I have had 2 issues with my 870. 1. I bought the $299 870 Express 12 gauge at Wal Mart, which means it comes with a rough finish and el cheapo wood. As a duck hunter, i found that neither the finish, nor the furniture stood up to the abuse of duck hunting, especially salt water. Having learned that lesson, I bought a premium 1187 and had no issues in the same harsh environment. 2. Second issue was this. Bought a case of Winchester white box dove loads that would pop out of the magazine back into the receiver. Happened to me and my buddy who also had an 870 super magnum. Could have been ammo, but it ruined a dove hunt.

I don't have a Saiga, and I want one. From my limited research, the biggest issue I see is it doesn't cycle low brass.

[Buddymack]

They are two very different guns, I would love to have a Saiga 12 but the price range is so close to other guns I would rather have or are on my short list..
I have two Riots one of which is an 870 and the other is an old Ex Police Hi Standard...the 870 is very limitless on what you can do with it as far as Mods and stuff and is very fast for a pump...I can fire it almost as fast as many could shoot an auto it is fairly reliable from what I gather from others but isn't built as well as a Hi Standard in my opinion it is just that the HS is a little slow in comparison...but the HS is built like an old truck no mamby pamby parts...the Mossberg 500 is sort of a copy of it ..
if budget is an issue an 870 can be had for less than 200 used easy were a Saiga 12 is going to be in the 500 range or better ...then if it were me I would make it look more like an AK47 ...it's just what is right to me that AK receiver looks odd with a Remchester style stock!

I think I need also to mention that you can buy other barrels for the 871 and with a few turns of an end cap within seconds you do a barrel change and now you can hunt...not to mention you can get rifled barrels ...not sure why you would want to.

[19Charlie_84]

I'm no doubt the worst person to give gun buying advice, get both.

I have an 870 in 20ga (walmart special) and a 12 painted od green to seal from elements w hogue stocks for duckin. I also have a converted saiga with 2, 5, and 12 rnd mags for any application. Both are excelent guns, however the 870 has like 2 million units sold, so that says something on quality and longevity.

Furthermore, me being still unsatisfied with the pump/semi situation forced me to aquire a SPAS 12. (Uses both actions). Hold off on the SPAS for now.

[DaCapster]

the SPAS 12 sucks for dove hunting....

[slackjaw]

how much is a spas 12 and where would i get one i have never seen one at a gun show

[jbruney]

I've two 870 wingmasters...flawless performance for forty years on both the 20ga. and the 12ga.. They aren't hard to look at either. I was raised on Mod.12 , 870, A5, and 1100, so I'll probably never know what the Saiga even feels like. I would like a Red Label just to fondle.

[patjsimpson]

I have a saiga 12 and love it. I have been one of the lucky ones in that mine will shoot low brass ammo all day long. I have even thought of getting one of the ones barreled with the 24 inch barrel but I have not seen them in stock lately. Love the Magazine flexibility with these guns but would like to see more low round count mags for hunting.

[okie shooter]

Are you looking to hunt or tatical, I have both a saiga 12, for the bad a$$ look over anything pratical, gonna do a conversion on it, to make it look ak like. For versitile, I want the pump(no 870's here but a couple of mossburgs, a police style armscorps, as stevens pumo and a 1100)

As said, anything should feed thru the 870, the saigas are rumored to be picky on what they will eat, thus you will pay more for ammo, or learn to load for your self, which is what I have thought about.

Price, remember the saiga maybe twice as much as a 870 depending on availablity, and there are few used saigas-12's out there.

[Noskov]

how much is a spas 12 and where would i get one i have never seen one at a gun show

I have a Saiga 12 and a SPAS-12. For all intents and purposes the Saiga would be the better choice overall.

The SPAS is heavy, a little complicated (takes a while to get used to) and not too many aftermarket parts. The real value in it is the collector standpoint and the fact it can often hold it's value more so than other shotguns depending on the configuration you have.

SPAS-12' s vary widely due to all the variations it can come with.

[cfish]

I own both the 870 and the saiga 12 converted back to original. I would not own a saiga 12 unless you intend to restore it to its original set up. The trigger thaat the s12 comes with is crap and unless your one of the lucky few, expect to be tweaking your s12 until you can get it to run right. I have owned my 870 for 20 years and it has more then 20k rounds thru it, and I can say it has never ever ever failed once. I use the 870 for 3 gun matches and bird hunting(two different barrels) Far more options(less expensive) for the 870 as far as an all around gun. I have been using the s12 in the last 2 3 gun matches I have entered. It rocks but in both matches I had a failure to eject in both matches. If you have your clearing drills down then its not as bad. It is easy and quick to clear once you learn the method. If you buy a s12 and have problems there is a company(I can post if you like) that will do the warranty work here in the US and they do good work. They will not work on any converted s12's!! The s12 is damn fun to shoot especially with the MD 20 mag and buck shot!

[cfish]

All saiga 12's can easily be made to shoot low brass rounds. Its important though that if anyone here does purchase one that they shoot it a bunch before converting it so not to void the warranty.
Tanker, you need to get one, they rock especially with the 20 round drums. I spanked everyone two matches ago, it was funny watching guys reload over and over while I walked thru and never reloaded.

[slackjaw]

i do have a reloader and im probally just going to blast deer and some geese that makes the wrong decision to land on my field

[cfish]

Saiga 12 with 20 round drum then!!!!!

[slackjaw]

thank my choice has been made saiga 12 with tapco stock and 20 round drum

[cfish]

Go with the DPH stock its much more solid and looks cooler!!

[weaponoffemdom]

neither, mossberg 500, sorry

[Perro Del Diablo]

i gotta disagree with you on that one WOF, strictly my opinion though.

Im not sure if it is because i have owned an 870 for so long but i prefer the 870 over the mossberg 500.
For me, the 500 is difficult to disassemble, has the safety on top which seems completely difficult to operate with the gun in the shoulder to me, and the slide release is located in a weird place on the 500 compared to the 870. Add a pistol grip to the 500 and the slide release becomes impossible to operate.


For a pump shotgun for self defense, i really like the High Standard K1200 flight king riot. It has one of the nicest actions i have ever cycled.

i own the 870, a few different variations of 500, and the saiga 12
if my life depended on it, or i had to choose a duty weapon to carry use, and clean, i would choose the 870

if i wanted something fun, it would probably be the Saiga with one of the tromix conversions on it

my opinions for what you paid for them

[k98k792]

870 man here also. I have three of them. I had a Mossberg 500,and sold it, mainly for the issues Perro stated.

[weaponoffemdom]

i hear you, the tang safety is useless with a pistol grip, it is better in a hunting config. but this argument has been made before and it will be made again. i shoot left handed so I can release the action with my trigger finger.

[Perro Del Diablo]

i have the Marine Corps Mossberg 500 tactical with the steel receiver, and a standard 500 with the aluminum receiver.
they cycle nicely, maybe even better than the 870, but i cannot handle the controls on the gun. It drives me nuts.

[weaponoffemdom]

!sorry

[Perro Del Diablo]

!sorry

for what??
Im just shooting the breeze here, and giving my opinions, nothing more
its cool by me if nobody shares my same point of view

[k98k792]

Perro, he was replying to me.

[oldpaint0]

I love my Saiga 12 and it is true about the low brass not wanting to cycle, but this is true in my case. I tried about 200 rounds of Win. white box with horrible resulsts and then I went to military buckshot which cycled just great and then back to the low brass again with horrible results. I was planning on buying a low brass kit from Carolina Shooters but I fed the gun some Rem. 3" mag. buckshot and that loosened it up and now it will shoot Wally World low brass all day long. I do love my Remingtons but the Saiga is a hoot. Kobra sight and a MD 20 rounder and she rocks.

[rudrules]

semi or pump doesnt bother me i want somthing for shooting for fun and killing deer i dont hunt hunting implies i might fail

I had a Franchi Law 12, Reminton 870, Mosberg 500 in stainless steel and my Saiga after I converted it.

Well if your looking to have fun I would have to say my Saiga 12 here it is!2804028041

It Shoots as fast as you pull the triger!

So that's my Humble Opinion!
Rudy:America::2pistol:

[freedomkeeper]

30084neither, mossberg 500\590\590a1, take your pic.

[HKaltwasser]

I'm no doubt the worst person to give gun buying advice, get both.

I have an 870 in 20ga (walmart special) and a 12 painted od green to seal from elements w hogue stocks for duckin. I also have a converted saiga with 2, 5, and 12 rnd mags for any application. Both are excelent guns, however the 870 has like 2 million units sold, so that says something on quality and longevity.

Furthermore, me being still unsatisfied with the pump/semi situation forced me to aquire a SPAS 12. (Uses both actions). Hold off on the SPAS for now.

I agree, get both. I have an 870 Wingmaster but the SAIGA12 is definatly on the list.

[HKaltwasser]

I had a Franchi Law 12, Reminton 870, Mosberg 500 in stainless steel and my Saiga after I converted it.

Well if your looking to have fun I would have to say my Saiga 12 here it is!2804028041

It Shoots as fast as you pull the triger!

So that's my Humble Opinion!
Rudy:America::2pistol:

That is one sweet lookin piece!

[k98k792]

A person I know who had a Saiga and an 870 said that he found the large mags cumbersome, and the handling of the Saiga, especially in close quarters,awkward compared to the 870. He felt being able to top of rounds when ever you got the chance,as opposed to doing a mag change somewhat negated the Saigas somewhat larger capacity(10 rounders?). So he sold the Saiga. I wish I had known, regardless of whither he was wrong or right,I'd still like to have one just for the sheer fun of it.
Three 870's and a double, pretty well fill my shotty needs at the moment,though.

[Evilblackgunsrfun]

sorry to bring this old thread back to life, but i enjoy shooting my Mossy 500 , it has a pistol grip and i find no problem in using the slide release or safety, i guess i am use to Mossbergs. i do also like 870's, i just dont own one right now.

[nonleathal]

wiith you on that one evilblack. i own three mossbergs and i have no problems with any of them. i guess it all depends on what your used to, and what you perfer.

[Evilblackgunsrfun]

nonleathal, i have 2 Mossbergs right now, a 500 and a 930 SPX. I have shot and hunted with differant shotguns over the years, Ithica shotguns, from a old 16 ga pump pump gun to a more modern deerslayer, i believe it was a model 37, i have hunted with a Stevens Savage 20 ga bolt action shotgun, A model 1100 Remington, model 870's, and others that i can not remember at this time and had fun shooting all of them and got use to them in no time.
If i would buy another shotgun in the future, it would either be a 590, KSG, or a Saiga 12, i am not saying i would never own a 870,i know they are very nice shotguns , a 870 is just not on my list of guns to own right yet.

[Buckshot]

nonleathal, i have 2 Mossbergs right now, a 500 and a 930 SPX. I have shot and hunted with differant shotguns over the years, Ithica shotguns, from a old 16 ga pump pump gun to a more modern deerslayer, i believe it was a model 37, i have hunted with a Stevens Savage 20 ga bolt action shotgun, A model 1100 Remington, model 870's, and others that i can not remember at this time and had fun shooting all of them and got use to them in no time.
If i would buy another shotgun in the future, it would either be a 590, KSG, or a Saiga 12, i am not saying i would never own a 870,i know they are very nice shotguns , a 870 is just not on my list of guns to own right yet.

I have owned a number of shotguns and used the 870 folding stock in the military and had no issues with it. If you are looking at the Saiga 12 for future purchase they are very good and I really like the compact 12 rd promag drum.
I had several 12 rd stick mags and after getting a couple of drums sold all, but two of them. The 20 rd drum pictured by the gun is a little large for my taste and you can see the lenght of the 12 rd stick, very long. The 12 rd
drum locked in the gun is about perfect in size and weight.

[Evilblackgunsrfun]

Very nice Saiga scattergun Buckshot, pretty much what i am looking for, standard or close to standard length barrel, add on pistol grip stock , and acouple drum mags.
And like i said, i like a 870, i have hunted with acouple of them, i like them, i know they will go bang every time, but i am just in the market right now for a Saiga 12 or a KSG, i could hold off on a 590
Anyone looking for a good shotgun should consider the 500 and 590 along with the 870, all three always go bang. Seem to anyway IMHO