12 Gauge

[rudrules]

I want to build a short double barrel shot gun, and need to know what is the shortest legal barrel with out going with an SBR.

I was told that 18 Inches for barrel and an overall length of 26 inches including the stock or pistol grip. its that correct?

I want it to be legal but also want it to look like the old style sawed off shot guns.


I need the experts to chime in!

Thanks,
Rudy:America::2pistol:

Something Like this drawing!

[ssg23inf]

18" barrel AND 26" oal. You are correct.

[rudrules]

Thanks ssg23inf!

just want it to make sure it was legal before I got one and trimed the barrel and the stock a bit!

Now I go looking to find an old one to modify a bit!

:America::2pistol:

[ssg23inf]

Here's a great start if you're looking to build.
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=190593796

[bladeworks123]

Just remember the "AND" rule.....the barrel length must be at 18"+ but it also has to be 26 inches overall. It's not an "or" situation on the barrel and overall lengths. I know you understand the difference, but some guys miss the "and" part. I always tell guys to be sure and make the barrel 18 1/2 " and the overall length 27" just to be sure there is some room to play with if it ever gets measured for you.

[rudrules]

Thanks Blade!

I will post some pictures when I finish the project!

:America::2pistol:

[RicePaddyDaddy]

http://www.hatchergun.com/NFA/Coachgun_III_Dutone-2.JPG

These are pretty sharp but they must have been measured with a short ruler.

[Buddymack]

That makes it interesting how the Taurus Judge can be a legal gun then.

[RicePaddyDaddy]

That makes it interesting how the Taurus Judge can be a legal gun then.

The barrel is rifled so it is classed as a pistol.That's the answer at the gun shop.

[okie shooter]

Once a long gun, always a long gun. Thus the issue of cutting down a existing weapon into a sbr or pistol is the problem. The Judge is as stated a pistol, remember it just is able to shoot the .410 shot, but is labled a .45 long colt.

[Buddymack]

I find it laughable these rules that have no rhythm or reason behind them the fact that the Judge shoots 45LC makes it more like what it would seem they are trying to suppress in the first place.
But don't worry I am not going to try and make sense of the Government anytime soon.:icon_confused:

[Jagman]

Heres one I shortened Rud, this one is definately SBR.

http://images52.fotki.com/v637/photos/2/139782/8039296/PistolGripShotty009-vi.jpg
http://images52.fotki.com/v641/photos/2/139782/8039296/12guagepistol-vi.jpg

[Optimus Prime]

http://www.hatchergun.com/NFA/Coachgun_III_Dutone-2.JPG

These are pretty sharp but they must have been measured with a short ruler.

Going off the link address I'm guessing it's a registered SBS. Definitely is pretty good looking though.

[Woodman in MO]

Once a long gun, always a long gun. Thus the issue of cutting down a existing weapon into a sbr or pistol is the problem. The Judge is as stated a pistol, remember it just is able to shoot the .410 shot, but is labled a .45 long colt.

Hmmm....thought that was the other way around. Once a pistol always a pistol....you can SBR a long gun...you can't SBR a pistol...or am I smoking dope...

[Optimus Prime]

I think it's more of you can SBR a rifle, and you can SBR a pistol, but you can't pistol a long gun, ie, you can't take a 16"+ AR and put a pistol buffer and a 7.5" barrelled upper on it and claim it's a pistol (you would be in possession of an unregistered SBR at that point.)

[deth502]

I think it's more of you can SBR a rifle, and you can SBR a pistol, but you can't pistol a long gun, ie, you can't take a 16"+ AR and put a pistol buffer and a 7.5" barrelled upper on it and claim it's a pistol (you would be in possession of an unregistered SBR at that point.)

yeppers!!

and yes, the judge is a 45lc, and has a rifled bbl. if it was a smooth bore, then it too would be an sbs.

[WildBillCody]

So make a pistol in .45 long colt that can take .410... It would give you the same look, and be nicer to shoot...

[rudrules]

Heres one I shortened Rud, this one is definately SBR.

http://images52.fotki.com/v637/photos/2/139782/8039296/PistolGripShotty009-vi.jpg
http://images52.fotki.com/v641/photos/2/139782/8039296/12guagepistol-vi.jpg

Hey Buddy,

That looks real nice!

I just finish mine today, I will post some Pictures in a minute!:America::2pistol:

[Buddymack]

I agree that is too cool, but I would be in big trouble in my state for owning that.
When I am king for a day I gotta lot of work to do!:icon_biggrin:

[rudrules]

Here it is, I worked on it all night last night till about 3.am, and cut it today at work, came home and finished bluing the area were I cut the barrel and drilled a tiny hole to put in the front sight just for giggles.

Sanded the nasty paint it had on the handguard and stock and just put in a couple of coats of stain, and put it together for some pictures, but I'm still going to tinker with it some more!

Hey Blade I followed your advise, I cut the Barrel 18.5 inches and also cut of the stock and now the overall lenght is 27.2 inches!

Is short and sexy enough for me, and is legal!

What do guys think?

:America::2pistol:

[hunter_la5]

Very nice! :thumbup: I want to make one now...

[okie shooter]

Heres a link with a atf letter about TC encores and pistol and rifle configurations and trying to switch.
http://www.bellmtcs.com/store/index.php?cid=239

I used to have a link to another letter discussing this with receivers and the thought of once a long gun its always a long gun, but from the tech branch seemed to say if you wanted to cut down a rifle, the only option is a SBR. If there wernt a rule how easy would it be to make ar pistols and only own one receiver for both a rifle and pistol. Remember its the point that the receiver is the firearm on these things that can be easly interchanged .

Interesting comments by tech branch remember say you can not put a fore grip on a pistol, if so you make a non pistol, thus needing sbr. So you cannot have your cake and eat it too, you have to pay 200 to make sbr either way, from a pistol or a rifle.

[Jagman]

wow! very nice, you were able to save the checkering too, looks great.
Will you be firing both barrels at once :icon_biggrin:

[rudrules]

wow! very nice, you were able to save the checkering too, looks great.
Will you be firing both barrels at once :icon_biggrin:


Thanks Buddy,
No I don't think I'm going to try it!

I would be afraid to, it will provably be one heck of a BANG!

I took the wood apart tonight to give it a couple of clear coats over the stain!

:America::2pistol:

[7.62guy]

looks good rudy. that will keep the wolf from the door.:icon_biggrin:

[cwo4uscgret]

Another, as of yet finished project - a Remington Made Browning A5 20 gauge, soon to be a Whippet. Even though not that many were made during WWII, this gun doesn't have a lot of collectibility; the addition of a non-factory PolyChoke and non-standard butt pad detract immensly from its collectible status. These are marked "Browning, St. Louis, MO" but were more then likely made in NY; they are Remington made. I think in 20 gauge it will be a great Whippet, I just need to make two cuts and refinish it...

[slackjaw]

why ruin such a beautiful gun

[rudrules]

Another, as of yet finished project - a Remington Made Browning A5 20 gauge, soon to be a Whippet. Even though not that many were made during WWII, this gun doesn't have a lot of collectibility; the addition of a non-factory PolyChoke and non-standard butt pad detract immensly from its collectible status. These are marked "Browning, St. Louis, MO" but were more then likely made in NY; they are Remington made. I think in 20 gauge it will be a great Whippet, I just need to make two cuts and refinish it...

Hey buddy, I can picture in my mind what your gun will look llike after you cut it, and I think it will look real cool, it will have a mean look to it!

A friend of mine did one that looked similar to yours and it looked awsome.

Post some pictures after you complete the project!

Rudy

[cwo4uscgret]

why ruin such a beautiful gun

rare, collectible, or otherwise worth a lot of money. Keeping the barrel more then 18" and the overall length +27" still makes it a legal shotgun.

Here's a quick and dirty photo of it taped off; the barrel, from the breach is 19-1/4" and over all length is 33". Still plenty long and legal!

[Buddymack]

So it seems it would be like a semi auto riot?

[Patria Povo]

The barrel is rifled so it is classed as a pistol.That's the answer at the gun shop.

Interesting. Does that mean you could make a Mad Max style double barrel shotgun pistol as long as the barrels were rifled?

I'm thinking this AOW will be my next firearm purchase:

http://www.serbu.com/top/superShorty.php

[deth502]

Interesting. Does that mean you could make a Mad Max style double barrel shotgun pistol as long as the barrels were rifled?


well, yes. but.....

you would have to MAKE the receiver. you could not use an existing shotgun receiver, and i have NEVER seen a virgin dbl bbl receiver.

AND it would have to be a .410 shotgun, because any bore over 1/2" would automatically classify it as a dd.

[hunter_la5]

Interesting. Does that mean you could make a Mad Max style double barrel shotgun pistol as long as the barrels were rifled?


Those movies are the sole reason that I want a double-barrel sawed-off shotgun.... :airtight:

[brewskzilla]

I saw a rig that could pull that tanker two days ago. You wanna get out of here? Talk to me... Okay... I want one, now...

[bladeworks123]

rare, collectible, or otherwise worth a lot of money. Keeping the barrel more then 18" and the overall length +27" still makes it a legal shotgun.

Here's a quick and dirty photo of it taped off; the barrel, from the breach is 19-1/4" and over all length is 33". Still plenty long and legal!

Chief, Here ya go,,,,WWII Remington Model 11. When I inherited it it was solid rust, barrel was rusted into the receiver.

[rudrules]

Blade, that is an awesome job!
Did you do it all your self?
Like removing the rust and the bluing and such.

You got to teach me some of your skills bud, That gun looks better than new!

:rockon:


Rudy:America::2pistol:

[bladeworks123]

Oddly enough, the only part of this thing that wasn't soild rust was the chamber and the bore. It had oily rags stuffed in the muzzle and a round in the chamber, and the magazine was full also. It had been stored in a canvas case and was entirely rusted. I had to beat the barrel off with a mallet after soaking the whole gun in PB blaster. Took me about a month to get the surfaces cleaned up to re-blue. Had to replace the recoil bushings. It shoots like a dream though. I could see where the forearm had some sort of bracket attached to the left side, that was missing. Still have not found out what it was. maybe a bracket for a light???? Haven't found anybody who has any idea. Here you can see where the foream is notched for whatever was mounted on there...

[wonderwolf]

Were the barreles soldered all the way through? I've chopped a few dbls before and some are solid some are not, Suspend the barrels out of the action on a string and hit them with a mallet or something and see if they ring like a bell or clunk (before cutting) this will tell you how well the barrels are joined. I've never seen where the barrels have separated from the rib but I could imagine it happening.

Nice job on the conversion! I have some dbl actions and misc barrels I plan on doing some hack jobs on in the future for S&G. I recently got a Stoeger coach gun so that keeps me from chopping down a $$$ 5100 Springfield or some such thing.

Just remember if you find a muzzle loader dbl gun (please don't hack an antique) you can cut it as short as you want. Isn't it funny how we like BIG guns and then we cut them down?

[Buddymack]

Would have loved to seen some pics of the work Blade, you are very talented, maybe next time.:icon_biggrin:

[M1 Tanker]

You got updated pics yet? :)

[RicePaddyDaddy]

Very nice looking piece.I picked one up in RVN but had to trade it off when I found out it would not cycle the flechette shells we had.