Bluing methods

[Buddymack]

Hey guys I am fishing for some experiences, a friend of mine at work has entrusted me to clean up an old Marlin 336 "1950 in REM 35" it is kind of pitty and I have been working on it with some of my spare time "lol" I am planning on rebluing it because it just makes sense for this beautiful old rifle...
I have parking tanks unused and I am not sure I want to get a recipe ready for it just now.
Have any of you had any luck with other products? DIY recipes?
I have tried Blue wonder with not exactly what I am looking for in results, same with the Brownells cold gel paste like solution to me the results were "meh" at best.

Thoughts? suggestions?

[Norton]

Buddy If you have the time.. Cold blue can look pretty good.. I sometimes see long stainless Steel pans around construction sites durring demolition . I have often wondered if I could rig up a hot blue tank and heat it with a propane burner also salvaged from a jobsite.

[jdowney]

You can also look into rust bluing, its an easier technique than hot bluing, but more time consuming. Rust bluing is reputed to be better protection than hot bluing, and has the added advantage that you don't need to do all that polishing. Down side is that its a big mental hurdle to actually intentionally rust a firearm :D...

Conventional wisdom on cold blues has long been that they are just aesthetic and don't provide much if any protection, not sure if that is still the case or not, I don't keep up on cold bluing developments.

[Buddymack]

You can also look into rust bluing, its an easier technique than hot bluing, but more time consuming. Rust bluing is reputed to be better protection than hot bluing, and has the added advantage that you don't need to do all that polishing. Down side is that its a big mental hurdle to actually intentionally rust a firearm :D...

Conventional wisdom on cold blues has long been that they are just aesthetic and don't provide much if any protection, not sure if that is still the case or not, I don't keep up on cold bluing developments.

I have heard that...how long does it take?

[jdowney]

I have heard that...how long does it take?

I don't know, haven't tried it yet but its on the list. Got an old Remmy model 11 that needs it. From what I've read, it should be similar in time required to hot bluing. You don't do all that polishing at the beginning, but you do have to keep rusting and carding. Depending on how you do it, you may have to dip in boiling water, changes the ferrous oxide (rust) to ferric oxide (blue). I believe you only need to do that if you use one of the bluing/browning solutions, not if you do it au-natural like.

Ever buff a fine powdery rust off a tool and find a really hard dark layer underneath? That's the stuff. Trick with a non-solution approach is keeping the rust slow and even to keep from getting pits. I have a couple projects in mind to do if I ever make some headway on the projects in hand.

[spectre]

my dad used this and it came out looking pretty sharp

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash1/hs324.ash1/28367_1300354625144_1118762230_30687898_3222397_n. jpg
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs314.snc3/28367_1300354345137_1118762230_30687892_4374834_n. jpg
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash1/hs324.ash1/28367_1300354545142_1118762230_30687896_182992_n.j pg

[Buddymack]

Isn't that a sodium hydroxide acid? and did he use it hot? did he mix anything with it like sodium nitrate?
Looks good Dad!

[Lalvis]

Yes, following up BuddyMack- Please include instruction on this method. I have never seen anything on this type. But I would love to know the how to's.:America:

[Norton]

I don't keep up on cold bluing developments.

lol.. If I hear of any I will send you a PM

[AURktman]

There is a way to heat the metal with a propane torch and rub oil into it over and over, but that is really effective for use on garden tools, not guns. If you want to try it on a slide, I guess you can.

[Lalvis]

I did the heat and oil on a reproduction Colt 1860. It came out very nice. Not sure I want to do it with a modern gun. :icon_neutral:

[mitchstoner]

I've heard that heat and oil method won't stand up to solvents. Have you tested the blue job on your Colt repro with any cleaning solvents?

[Lalvis]

I ended up polishing it to look like nickle. Very hard to get a uniform color.:America:

[agalindo]

Isn't that a sodium hydroxide acid? and did he use it hot? did he mix anything with it like sodium nitrate?
Looks good Dad!

Yep it's lye, this particular brand has potassium nitrate mixed in so all you have to do is mix one can of DrainOut to 16oz distilled water. Boil at 280deg for 20 to 40 min. It's nasty stuff but the results are much better than cold blue. I'm going to redo the pistol because I want to give the metal a bit more shine. Planning on doing a S&W m59 slide and a bersa thunder slide also.

If you want I can post some more info on the process.

[Lalvis]

Yes please, all the info we can get!:America:

[agalindo]

Yes please, all the info we can get!:America:

Detailed stripped the slide, put all the small parts, extractor, take down leaver safety leaver, etc into a small basket (no springs). I then dipped all the parts slide included into a diluted muriatic acid bath for 10 seconds to remove the old blue (don't have a sand blaster). Rinsed for 5 min then let dry. I spent some time sanding and polishing the slide. (should have spent more). Then put all the parts into a baggie with Remoil.

Just before putting them in the hot blue I rinsed the parts in hot water and Dawn, then in water to rinse, then rinsed with Acetone. Used black wire sanded shiny then rinsed in acetone to hang the slide and barrel.

The bluing solution is 16oz of distilled water to one can of DrainOut. I did a total of 4 cans. Next time I'm going with 5 or 6. No other chemicals needed, DrainOut has potassium nitrate in it. Boil the parts at 280-290 for 20min to 40 or more depending on how dark you want them. I did mine for about 40-50 min.

When putting the DrainOut into the water do it while the water is cold and be very careful it boils, smokes and pops. Drain out into water not the other way around. Go slow. Wear a faceshield, plastic apron, long rubber gloves and an extra thick overshirt. The stuff burns your skin on contact. Stay up wind from it also, the fumes burn. When putting DrainOut in the water if fizzled like soda but the mini drops that hit the skin burned. Keep a running water hose near by.

Don't put water in the boiling solution it will explode and rain lye on you. If you must put ice cubes in it and do it very slowly and carefully.

The pot and thermometer must be steel or stainless steel anything else will contaminate the solution and will be eaten away.

Has to be done outdoors.

After the parts come out dip them in a hot water container to rinse then rinse them in cold water. Oil them down and wait 24 hours before cleaning.

Note: prep is 90% of the bluing job. Sanding, polishing etc...
If the finished result are covered in a red slush don't worry it will wash out with WD40.

[Lalvis]

Thank you very much! This is a good follow up on the one I read on "Military Firearms Refinishing" forum board! He used fertilizer with at least 30% Ammonium Nitrate and Lye. He also had the conversion to Potassium or Sodium Nitrate. Said it was to much of a chance you would get a visit from some fella's if you went to a feed store and asked for 3 1\2 lbs of Ammonium Nitrate!:eek: Just smile and tell them the next stop is the gas station:eek:

[agalindo]

Yea, I hadn't gotten around to doing it the lye+fertilizer method and when I came upon this recipe I figure less trouble everything is premixed and no fbi list to make. :)

[Lalvis]

Having lived in a farming area, I know what would happen if I walked into a feed and seed and asked for some 12-15-5 in 5lbs.:2pistol: They would be looking at me as if I was :osama: Then:cop: would be asking me to "come'er boy":wow::America:

[Buddymack]

Having lived in a farming area, I know what would happen if I walked into a feed and seed and asked for some 12-15-5 in 5lbs.:2pistol: They would be looking at me as if I was :osama: Then:cop: would be asking me to "come'er boy":wow::America:

This is the recipe I was referring to http://www.blindhogg.com/homemadesalts.html, it is not hard to obtain really but you do need to order from online providers since Red Devil is no longer out there.
but this other ingredients is very promising because it is an already combined chemical that will work once the aluminum burns off.

[agalindo]

Yep, I get drainout at walmart, cheap and always in stock. Much easier to find than reddevil.

By the way last weekend I found a local store that still caries dedevil.

[konigstigerii]

Hmm very good info, may have to try it one day, have a mauser that is a little rough looking in the blueing department lol

[Buddymack]

Well it looks like I need to grab a few cans here and there every time I shop at Wally world, which has been a little more often lately thanks to some Fed 9mm for less than 10 bucks a box and now they are carrying 45LC also...now ....ammo stock and then a few cans of Drainout might get junior in the vest a bit paranoid.
Can this stuff be stored after use? like regular salts.

[agalindo]

I haven't stored it but I've heard that you can as long as it's air tight.

[Buddymack]

I haven't stored it but I've heard that you can as long as it's air tight.

It would seem it would just be like any salt once its cooked...I hope I am right.

[Lalvis]

Darnit, I spent all day looking for it here and no one has it! Not even the WallyBygolly had it!
12/5/10 I've been to 5 WalMarts, 2 Home Depots, 2 Lowes, 5 supermarkets, and 3 hardware stores! We don't have Drain Out here! I guess I will have to mix the 20-20-20 I found with the 100% Lye I found.