Info to convert m16 fire control parts to semi

[gtty]

Anyone know where to find info to legally convert m16 fire control parts to semi? Or should i just go buy new parts?

[HKILLER]

buy new ones dont chance it they are like $30 for the three.

[Orlando]

buy new ones dont chance it they are like $30 for the three.


Does that mean you would use the bolt carrier either?

Its easy to mill the hammer, selector.
I'll see if I can find any pics for you.
I used a Dremil tool , but a file would also work.

[gtty]

Does that mean you would use the bolt carrier either?

Its easy to mill the hammer, selector.
I'll see if I can find any pics for you.
I used a Dremil tool , but a file would also work.

I'd like to use as many original parts as possible, without breaking the law.

[Orlando]

Its going to be up to you to decipher the laws. Some dont feel as I do,I spoke my opinion but it comes down to you making your own decision.

[Silvera]

Someone correct me if I am wrong...BUT...

Last ruling I read from the BATFE said NO M-16 parts could be used in a AR-15
Including the bolt carrier.

Now if you can mill off (or cut off) the Sear, and the Hammer spurs but you would have to replace the selector. And the bolt carrier can be milled out if it's not hard chromed, the hard chroming brings it up to about a 60-62 on a Rockwell and a standard end mill will chatter against that. So it may be cheaper to buy a new bolt carrier.

I have read a BATFE news letter a few years ago that said that if you own a AR-15 AND M-16 parts you are in violation. Later I read that the parts had to actually be in a gun.

Someone here offer something up on this????

Also I agree with HKILLER buy new parts.....

[Orlando]

The tine can be ground or milled off the selector
This is directly from the ATF website
In order to avoid violations of the NFA, M16, hammers, triggers, disconnectors, selectors and boltcarriers must not be used in assembly of AR-15 type semiautomatic rifles, unless the M16 parts havebeen modified to AR-15 Model SP1 configuration. Any AR-15 type rifles which have been assembledwith M16 internal components should have those parts removed and replaced with AR-15 Model SP1type parts which are available commercially. The M16 components also may be modified to AR-15Model SP1 configuration"

[spectre]

I believe M16 bolt carriers can be used. i know people buy them to use in their rifles because of heavier bolt/lock time/ or something to that effect

[Orlando]

I believe M16 bolt carriers can be used. i know people buy them to use in their rifles because of heavier bolt/lock time/ or something to that effect

You are correct, in 2005 ATF ruled it is legal to use Auto bolt carriers
In fact if anyone owns a Colt AR15 you may very well have one installed

[Optimus Prime]

Written by Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (BATFE), Chief of the Firearms Technology Branch
...M16 bolt carriers are not designed and intended solely and exclusively for use in converting a weapon into a machinegun and are not any combination of parts from which a machinegun can be assembled. Further, an M16 bolt carrier is not a firearm as defined in the GCA or a machinegun as defined in the NFA. An M16 bolt carrier is simply a machinegun part and as such its domestic sale and possession is unregulated under the Federal firearms laws. It is not unlawful to utilize a M16 machinegun bolt carrier in a semiautomatic AR15 type rifle.
(http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-Bolt-Carrier-Group-MPI-Auto-M16-p/bcm%20bolt%20carrier%20group%20auto%20mp.htm)

According to BCM. I still stick with semi trigger group parts though, I'd rather have those purpose built than risk screwing up the mods or running into a extra-picky ATF agent.

[Silvera]

I thank you for that info as I am behind the times on the bolt carrier info.... Thanks!!!

[spectre]

i myself was confused on it also. i called Bushmaster about 2 years ago and they said it was illegal but i knew people were doing it for competition purposes also. so i was not clear on the feds standing on it.

[Optimus Prime]

I haven't seen an "official" letter on it myself, but Bravo Company's a good outfit and they generally have their $^*+ together.

[19Charlie_84]

No FCG parts should be used in a semi gun. They make selectors that go all the way around but still fire in semi auto if your heart desires the second click. Bolt carriers are OK as it only adds wieght to slow the BCG to allow a FA gun to function. A semi carrier would deffinetly work in a FA but it would jam.

[Different]

I haven't seen an "official" letter on it myself, but Bravo Company's a good outfit and they generally have their $^*+ together.

It's a letter from the BATFE Firearms Technology Branch Chief dated May 2008. I have a copy of it in .pdf. You may be able to find it on the Internet.

[Orlando]

No FCG parts should be used in a semi gun. They make selectors that go all the way around but still fire in semi auto if your heart desires the second click. Bolt carriers are OK as it only adds wieght to slow the BCG to allow a FA gun to function. A semi carrier would deffinetly work in a FA but it would jam.

Again this is directly from the ATF website and is in my book of rules and regulations that is sent to FFL holders

"In order to avoid violations of the NFA, M16, hammers, triggers, disconnectors, selectors and boltcarriers must not be used in assembly of AR-15 type semiautomatic rifles, unless the M16 parts havebeen modified to AR-15 Model SP1 configuration. Any AR-15 type rifles which have been assembledwith M16 internal components should have those parts removed and replaced with AR-15 Model SP1type parts which are available commercially. The M16 components also may be modified to AR-15Model SP1 configuration"

[gtty]

Orlando, Do you have the info about modifying the parts to stay within the law?

[Orlando]

I just know how to do it, I looked for pics but couldnt find anything, It might just be easier for you to buy ar15 trigger and hammer and disconnector and mill off the tine on the selector.
I'll dig around in my parts box some more and see what I can find

[Orlando]

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f197/Garandlover/semiauto.jpg

[Orlando]

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f197/Garandlover/diagramlg.jpg

[okie shooter]

Wonder if it would be worth it, reworking hardened steel parts, then not refinishing or reharding them. Plus the possablity of trouble with the legalities of it. IMHO, I would just assemble the FCG for sure with a AR-15 or as said SP-1 type parts.

P.S. here's a link to the letter or what pretends to be the letter on line about bolt carriers.

http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/ATF%20M16%20Letter.pdf

[Different]

It's a letter from the BATFE Firearms Technology Branch Chief dated May 2008. I have a copy of it in .pdf. You may be able to find it on the Internet.

May 2008 BATFE letter on M16 BCG in a semi-automatic AR-15: http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/ATF%20M16%20Letter.pdf

I'm familiar with the February 2005 BATFE letter. State and local laws still apply. Also, the BATFE has recently, within the last year, done a remodel on its web site. A lot of the FAQ questions are no longer posted. If your AR-15 lacks the M16 FCG parts and doesn't shoot more than one round with each pull of the trigger, it's likely not a machine gun. FWIW

[gtty]

i'm not buying it. But i guess he's sure about what he is doing.
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=204817913

[Orlando]

Thats all completely legal, just as I showed in the above several pictures.Filling in the back of the trigger really isnt needed. I'm not going into it all again, I have explained the laws many times already

[gtty]

Thats all completely legal, just as I showed in the above several pictures.Filling in the back of the trigger really isnt needed. I'm not going into it all again, I have explained the laws many times already
i wasn't trying to stir the pot. just saying that apparently others are doing it too.:icon_biggrin:

[Silvera]

Look, what will happen is this, you will put altered 16 parts in your gun, a over zealous uneducated BATFE agent will somewhere sometime out of the blue look at your gun and confiscate it charge you, you will go to federal court after spending tons of money to show you were legal, nobody will give a rats a$$ and the whole time you could have spent 165 bucks for a AR-15 FCG and a bolt carrier.

So what would you be better of doing???

[19Charlie_84]

This is for M16 parts, I got it. I was closely examining the inner workings of my M4 the other day and noticed on the trigger instead of having the small semicircle cutouts directly opposite one another in the disco channel, they are offset by about 1/8". It also has two disconnectors and I believe the channel to be wider. Also there is a small sprocket wheel that rotates one turn every 5 shots, which is why the new grouping standard is 6 shots instead of 3. Dont use M4 parts, or M16 parts.

[gtty]

found this guy listed on Nodaks website and he sells AR15 retro parts. here is his email.
jrs@outdrs.net


I'm not sure how far you want to go to stay on the safe side, but here are the individual pparts prices and youy can choose what you need. You should be able to sell the original parts with no problem and finance the replacements.

Semi Hammer in grey,------ $20
Semi Trigger in grey,---------$18
SemiSelector in grey,--------$15
Semi disconnect in grey,---$10


I may grab a few of these items.

[HKILLER]

Good find gtty

[Orlando]

Look, what will happen is this, you will put altered 16 parts in your gun, a over zealous uneducated BATFE agent will somewhere sometime out of the blue look at your gun and confiscate it charge you, you will go to federal court after spending tons of money to show you were legal, nobody will give a rats a$$ and the whole time you could have spent 165 bucks for a AR-15 FCG and a bolt carrier.

So what would you be better of doing???


So how many people have you heard that has been arrested that own a Colt SP1?? I dont know how many tens of thousands of them that are out there
You gotta do what you are comfortable with but spreading this paranoia is crazy when the laws are in black and white in front of you.
Good luck to you all and whatever you decide. If you need any more help PM me as I'm getting worn out here:icon_biggrin:

[Silvera]

So how many people have you heard that has been arrested that own a Colt SP1?? I dont know how many tens of thousands of them that are out there
You gotta do what you are comfortable with but spreading this paranoia is crazy when the laws are in black and white in front of you.
Good luck to you all and whatever you decide. If you need any more help PM me as I'm getting worn out here:icon_biggrin:



:nonono:Wasn't trying to spread Paranoia! I was throwing out the "MURPHY" card....:nonono:

And you are right there are tens of thousands of them out there....probably..

I remember the very first AR I ever bought had ALL M-16 parts except the Auto Sear and that was back in the day you could get the "drop-in" one at the local gun show. It was a full mill lower and actually had a dimple in the side where the pin for the auto sear went. Sold it. Bought another 1911, wish I still had it though....

[imarangemaster]

I use an M16 bolt carrier in my CAR-15. Helps with feeding: more mass.

[robocop10mm]

No FCG parts should be used in a semi gun. They make selectors that go all the way around but still fire in semi auto if your heart desires the second click. Bolt carriers are OK as it only adds wieght to slow the BCG to allow a FA gun to function. A semi carrier would deffinetly work in a FA but it would jam.

The extended bottom tail on the FA carrier is not to add mass (even though it does, marginally) it is the part that trips the auto sear releasing the hammer allowing for FA fire. It is not that the M-16 will jam with a SA carrier, it is that the auto sear will not get tripped so no full auto fire.

[robocop10mm]

This is for M16 parts, I got it. I was closely examining the inner workings of my M4 the other day and noticed on the trigger instead of having the small semicircle cutouts directly opposite one another in the disco channel, they are offset by about 1/8". It also has two disconnectors and I believe the channel to be wider. Also there is a small sprocket wheel that rotates one turn every 5 shots, which is why the new grouping standard is 6 shots instead of 3. Dont use M4 parts, or M16 parts.

The true M-4 is a 3 shot burst gun hence the "sproket" on the hammer. The M4-A1 is full auto with no burst capability. If your M-4 fires six shots with each pull of the trigger, it is broken (ie needs new burst parts).

The twin disconnectors are a part of the burst mechanism. One is a semi-auto disconnector, the other a burst disconnector. A full auto M-16/M4A1 only has one disconnector.

[19Charlie_84]

Cool, learn something new everyday! I dont know how long I have sat while cleaning my rifle that I have worked the hammer and watched the FCG parts to figure out how it works. It never seems to reset on burst mode, it always locks up and you have to click it to semi to get a reset.

[spectre]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDWVYYJN_2Q