Cleaning after corrosive rounds

[Brock]

What is the best way for cleaning after using corrosive ammo?

I was told by the guy that I bought my mosin from was to use boiling soapy water.

I did this and then used my normal gun cleaner after this. Is this a good thing to do or is their a better way and potentially easier way?

I've seen guys using windex out at the range but I don't like the idea of all that amonia on the gun.

[Optimus Prime]

Both techniques work fine, just make sure to follow it with normal cleaning and oiling. The Windex works best while the gun is still warm.

[pigpen]

I like the old GI bore cleaner from WWII


The issue G.I. bore cleaners during the corrosive priming era were water-based. There are two commonly-encountered formulations: the first type is a brownish color and smells like creosote; the second is milky-white and is based on a water-soluble oil. Either of these will work to dissolve and remove the corrosive salt residue from firing corrosive-primed ammunition.

Formulations containing ammonia 'neutralize' the salt, which is, in fact, of neutral pH, being neither acidic nor basic. Only by dissolving and removing the salt residue can after-corrosion be prevented, and no bore cleaning compound which does not contain water can be relied on to do this.
So long as water is the most efficient, readily available and cheapest substance for the job, why not use it? All that is necessary is that the bore and parts exposed to firing residue be thoroughly swabbed (and a brush helps in the bore) with water, hot or cold, with or without additives, then thoroughly dried and oiled before being put away.


Townsend Whelen recomended using HOT water, followed by a thorough drying and then oiling. Sounds like he had the straight scoop 80 somthing years ago.

[Norton]

I always used soapy boiling water then gun oil

[sdk1968]

ive got "corrosive ammo nuetralizer" taht i use at the house when shooting it...

BUT

guys use windex at the ranges for a reason..

IS THE AMONIA... thats want you want. the amonia is the neutralizing agent to the corrosive part.

it wont hurt your barrel at all. spray some down the tube and then just clean it with hoppes or any other good cleaner like regular and it will be just fine.

if your a super accuracy shooter your not gonna be using old corrosive primered stuff anyway. lol

s

[97th Signalman]

I have used windex at the range and hot water at home followed my hoppes #9 and a good oiling afterward. All that stuff seems to work just fine. Then I discovered Aqua Clean Bore Cleaner by Shooters Choice Guncare Products. It is water based and disolves carbon like magic. I dry thoroughly and follow up with oil when dry.

Check it out:
http://www.shooters-choice.com/aqua_clean_bore.html

[jdowney]

Tough subject, there's a lot of so-so info out on the web, and inevitably strong opinions on various forums. This is about the only place I'd enter into a discussion on the subject without thinking I was going to waste time.

In a nutshell, this is my understanding of the chemistry - older primers used compounds that left behind salts as a residue of combustion. Salts are very hygroscopic, they attract and bond to water molecules, and will absorb a large amount of atmospheric moisture to the point of forming a liquid solution. As we well know, water is bad for steel, and salty water is worse (the dissolved ions make the solution more chemically active than just water).

So it should be relatively easy to get rid of salts right? Very soluble in water, should wash right out. Here's the problem.... all that crusty, nasty powder residue helps hold the salts packed right there in our nice shiny bores (ever notice that corrosive primers never seem to be paired with nice clean burning powder?:D)

What ammonia does is dissolve the powder residue. It's a chemically active ion in solution that bonds readily to hydrocarbons, and also basic enough to dissolve them readily, and has some nice surfactant properties to help it along with the cleaning. Older powder solvents had nice stuff like benzine to dissolve the hydrocarbon residues, and they probably worked better than ammonia in that regard, but as a non-polar solvent, they would not dissolve the salts.

Without seeing an MSDS sheet for the "old" Hoppe's, I couldn't say whether it would be effective for corrosive ammo or not. If it was in an aqueous solution it would be an effective combination. The current Hoppe's #9 contains more ammonia and alcohol than windex (according to their respective MSDS sheets), leading me to believe that most, if not all of what I've read about this on internet forums is total bunk (sorry guys, just the way I see it :D).

I'll go a bit further and speculate that older solvents were not so good for corrosive residues, probably got rid of the hydrocarbons but not the salts, hence all the boiling water business being revised from blackpowder days. I would be willing to bet that if modern solvents had been around between the advent of smokeless powders and non-corrosive primers, there would be much less of a big deal about this subject. Of course an un-provable bet is the best kind :D

I used to shoot Chinese 7.62x39 in my sks when I had one, about 1990. Cleaned with Hoppes and never saw any rust ('course the bore was chromed). I only recently bought a couple Mosin's last year and haven't shot them much, but still I've cleaned with Hoppes soon after shooting, and never had a problem. It helps, without a doubt, that I live out in the desert and rarely see enough atmospheric moisture to rust steel that's covered from direct rain exposure.

Of course, no one wants to gamble with a rifle, even a $100 one. So if you're happier with the windex, then go to it, not going to hurt a thing.

So to end all this blather on an amusing note, I was in a gunshop last year looking for 7.62x54r ammo, one of those shops that never seems to have what you need, but does have a couple guys hanging around to waste your time. One of these guys was telling me that urine was used in the field, by the Russians I think he said, because they didn't have any proper solvents and the stuff was hot, ammoniac, and watery. Never mind that it also contains the very salts you're trying to get rid of in a much stronger solution than what would wash out the barrel. So if any you guys see someone pissing down their Mosin bore at the range, I betcha I can tell you where they shop! :D:D:D

[ronsii]

I think i will stick with ammonia for now, as I have seen a lot of guys using it and oil things afterward. However after reading the posts here and a few other places I should research it further just to get a little more knowledgeable than 'I'm doing it because he's doing it'. I know one thing I don't plan on doing it the Russian way:wink:

[Buddymack]

This spring I am putting together a bug sprayer cleaner, I can make a custom ammonia, distilled water and vinegar mix to clean the rifles under light pressure.
These can be used for all sorts of things, mobile shower etc.

[Milsurp]

Windex with ammonia. Followed by a good cleaning has been working for me.

[7.62guy]

jdowny hit it right on the head. it is the salts from the primers that cause the damage as he said. the main ingredient was a fulminate of mercury if memory serves me still. that is what has to go. at the range i keep a small bottle of dish soap and water mixed. a patch or two down the pipe and bolt face, etc. and then regular cleaning. the only thing i do at home different is the water is hot. not to sure on the russian way, but the british troops used to pee in the vickers when they ran out of water. say it really stunk. i guess it may be true, but who knows.:icon_confused:

[sdk1968]

^^^^^ different subject but the British just werent smart enough to put "snow caps" on the Vickers like the russians did the Maxims!!

pop the cap stuff full of snow.... close cap resusme firing.. lot better than trying to pee in it and getting your schlong shot off.

[Brock]

Thanks guys for all the info. I guess I'll continue using the hot soapy water and thorough cleaning and oiling afterwards.

Do you completely disassemble the bolt and firing pin when you clean? Last time I cleaned it I took the bolt apart but not the firing pin.

[chili]

My bottle of Hoppe's #9 says it removes corrosive primer residue. It does, 'cause my K98 .303 and M39 do not have rusty bores.

[oldpaint0]

I have 3 74's and 3 Mosins and all have been cleaned and kept using Windex and Hoppes #9 for the last 10-15 years.

[yellowhand]

I got a can of that crud buster that comes out like carb cleaner and evaporates quickly and spray it at the range on the bolt and down the barrel and then follow up with #9 and breakfree.
No rust or anything but a shiny bore on my russians.