PDA

View Full Version : m53 still not firing



sava6e
12-22-2010, 02:11 PM
from my previous thread, i modified my own bolt, made my own firing pin, modified my lower grip and installed ar trigger,sear, hammer. at that point i would chamber a round and nothing, the primer had been clearly struck but nothing, i bought a wolff spring and installed it yesterday and still no bang. now i have been pulling the bullet and powder and just seeing if i can get the primer to pop since its somewhat of a drive to go shooting from my location just to have nothing happen (im not sure that thats the reason, but i could be wrong) any ideas?

:icon_sad:

Im not sure why i didnt think of it earlier but it hit me the other night, if my primer strikes are light then ultimatly, there isnt enough force present to detonate, right! so F=m*a which if F isnt enough then i either need to increase mass or acceleration, well i already have a wolff spring so that should increase the velocity of the hammer movement, which still wasnt enough, so that leaves mass, in which at the same time i thought im using ar-15 parts, and some people used fal parts which should be heavier than ar parts due to the caliber differences, this verified in my mind that my hammer might be light, so i welded on extra material in the areas uneffecting function, and viola! i can get primers to go offf reliably,, so today im taking her out! well see if everything else functions properly! either way im really happy that i dont have an expensive paperweight laying around any more

waffendude
12-22-2010, 02:53 PM
what type of ammo ?-----8mm yugo---is very hard to pop primers---rommy is the stuff to use
is the hammer binding on anything ?----bolt ext,recoil spring---
do you have a "top" hole cut into the bolt ext ? to "see" the hammer hitting the primer
could the firing pin be a little to short ?
these answers would help alot to get her running
just my .02
waffen

sava6e
12-22-2010, 05:48 PM
what type of ammo ?-----8mm yugo---is very hard to pop primers---rommy is the stuff to use

im not sure the type, its steel cased fmj headstamp has 22 on one side and 73 on the other, and it came in a green spam type can


is the hammer binding on anything ?----bolt ext,recoil spring---
do you have a "top" hole cut into the bolt ext ? to "see" the hammer hitting the primer
its possible however the primers are dented to a fair extent, also when the lower is out of the receiver it looks like if moves unimpeded, i dont have the top hole, im seeing there being one sometime in the near future.



could the firing pin be a little to short ?

perhaps, i measured when i made it, however having the hole in the bolt extension would be more assuring


these answers would help alot to get her running
just my .02
waffen

thankyou will make hole and see

sava6e
12-26-2010, 02:34 AM
update:

so i cut the hole in the bolt extension, the firing pin was a bit long so i took just a lil off to make the hammer sit a bit more upright when fired, still nothing; the primers i swear look like they should have detonated, im not sure if pulling the bullet is somehow messing up the primer.

any ideas?

DaCapster
12-26-2010, 07:21 AM
I know you bought a spam can but try different ammo first........

Perro Del Diablo
12-26-2010, 11:07 AM
try it with romanian ammo ONLY until you get it running correctly
put the yugo, or turk, or german stuff away until it is working on the romanian.

if you can't get romanian ammo to ignite the primers reliably with a wolf extra strength hammer spring then try removing the firing pin return spring and see if that will ignite a primer (pull the bullet first of course), and if it wont set off the primer without the firing pin spring then you have a short firing pin. If it will set off the primer without the spring then reduce the rate on the return spring, or shorten it some.

i made a firing pin out of one of the original mg42 firing pins. I turned down the back half of the firing pin to half its original diameter.
Then i bored a hole in the back of a piece of air hardening drill rod a tight fit to the newly modified firing pin. Dropped a bit of epoxy down the hole, and inserted the modified firing pin into the hole. Wiped off the excess epoxy that came out and let it harden.

the semi auto firing pin that i was borrowing from Big Steve broke when i test fired my gun, so i made a new pin, and the profile of the firing pin was different from the semi auto firing pin. After measuring the protrusion from the 2 with them bottomed out in the bolt, the original was different than the semi auto pin. I cant remember if the original stuck out more, or less, but you can bet it was the correct profile for the bolt set cause it was original.


just some things to try.

the mg42 is a very FINICKY semi auto - most of it has to do with the wide range of ammunition quality out there - start with quality ammo first, and then progress to the firing pin and firing pin return spring


Mike

M1 Tanker
12-26-2010, 11:23 AM
+1 to what Mike said about popping some primers with and without a spring.

Can you take a pic of that ammo? It sounds like Romy to me, but I wanna make sure. Also take a picture of the bullet strike on the primer.

sava6e
12-26-2010, 01:41 PM
heres a pic of the ammo, i have been mostly trying the steel cased stuff. the picture is from before i replaced the hammer spring with the wolff one, now the primers are a bit more indented. also i havnt been able to get a single primer to go off with or without the spring, i know the recoil spring isnt catching on anything because i have it removed so it would be one less possibility.

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w118/sava6e/photo2-1.jpg

hulygan
12-26-2010, 01:50 PM
those all look like light strikes ro me. even the ones that are deeper

M1 Tanker
12-26-2010, 03:18 PM
The steel cased stuff with the red laquer is what you want to use, its Romanian.
+1 to Hulygan, those are light primer strikes.

sdk1968
12-27-2010, 10:15 AM
yep those are waaaay too light of a strike to set of YUGO ammo.

not that id use it at all im my 42/53..

Romanian all the way! or even WOlf is cheap. CHilean isnt bad either.

ive not seen a picture of where your firing pin is being impacted by your hammer.

THIS IS CRUCIAL if your using an AR hammer and spring.

IF your hitting that pin too early in the arc it just doesnt have enough power for the mass you have left on the hammer.

you really gotta be 90* or a little better to the pin AT CONTACT.

its just a personal thing but i always try to have the AR group make contact at a degree or to PAST that and let it carry thru.

more power to impact.

you'll see this with a regular power spring. it will have more power at about 2* ish than the extra power spring has at 2* before!

check it out.

s

waffendude
12-27-2010, 10:24 AM
yep bud ---those are light primer hits---the yugo is some hard stuff to light
---use rommy ammo----
just like the others have said----make sure that the hammer is at the top of it's stroke as it hits the firing pin and that it is not binding on anything ---check that it is not hitting the top inside of the extention.
waffen

sava6e
12-28-2010, 01:18 AM
yep those are waaaay too light of a strike to set of YUGO ammo.

not that id use it at all im my 42/53..

Romanian all the way! or even WOlf is cheap. CHilean isnt bad either.

ive not seen a picture of where your firing pin is being impacted by your hammer.

THIS IS CRUCIAL if your using an AR hammer and spring.

IF your hitting that pin too early in the arc it just doesnt have enough power for the mass you have left on the hammer.

you really gotta be 90* or a little better to the pin AT CONTACT.

its just a personal thing but i always try to have the AR group make contact at a degree or to PAST that and let it carry thru.

more power to impact.

you'll see this with a regular power spring. it will have more power at about 2* ish than the extra power spring has at 2* before!

check it out.

s

its not striking at a true 90 degrees, will shorten the firing pin a tid bit


yep bud ---those are light primer hits---the yugo is some hard stuff to light
---use rommy ammo----
just like the others have said----make sure that the hammer is at the top of it's stroke as it hits the firing pin and that it is not binding on anything ---check that it is not hitting the top inside of the extention.
waffen
it is clearing the bolt extension and does not appear to be binding on anything

sdk1968
12-28-2010, 11:07 AM
be sure to let us know whether it did or didnt help..

if it didnt then we know where to look next. :-)

sava6e
02-26-2011, 07:01 PM
think i got it working see first post

sava6e
02-27-2011, 11:27 PM
took the baby out today! i had primers detonating without a bullet in the case as i live in the city its a bit of a drive to test for every mod, so recap, i would pull a bullet and dump the powder and see if i could ge the primer to go off, i finally got it to work where it would set the primer off, so today i went out and put live rounds in her and nothing, same ammo etc etc etc, thought it might be a dud so i put another round in and same thing did it a few times, :( so when i got home i pulled the bullet from the rounds that wouldnt fire, chambered it and boom! wtf! is there something with pressure inside the bullet that creates extra pressure against the primer that requires extra force???

help please

sdk1968
02-28-2011, 12:19 PM
thats not a real fair thing for you as you were hitting them a second time and then they lit.

did you put any of the ones that didnt fire back in and try them a second time at the range?

cause if they did then you didnt solve the original problem.

but again: i would only use ROMY or commercial 8mm until i had it running reliably then you can fine tune for the YUGo style stuff which is just sooooo much harder to get to run.

several guys have set up to run YUGO and then started blowing primers out when they went back to commercial stuff.

did you tell us what your FP protrusion was? this was a long time ago when you started this thread..

fordson
02-28-2011, 08:00 PM
i don't know anything about your model when setting the head space, sounds to me that with the loaded round the firing pin is pushing the cartridge forward. when you pull the bullet you may be pulling the shoulder forward and cloesing the headspace up so the case does not move forward when hit with the pin

sava6e
02-28-2011, 10:10 PM
thats not a real fair thing for you as you were hitting them a second time and then they lit.

did you put any of the ones that didnt fire back in and try them a second time at the range?

yes, i did try at least one of them twice


cause if they did then you didnt solve the original problem.

but again: i would only use ROMY or commercial 8mm until i had it running reliably then you can fine tune for the YUGo style stuff which is just sooooo much harder to get to run.

several guys have set up to run YUGO and then started blowing primers out when they went back to commercial stuff.
i am using the steel cased stuff which people on this board have told me is romanian


did you tell us what your FP protrusion was? this was a long time ago when you started this thread..
are you reffering to how far the fp will protrude from the bolt face? it is capable of coming out about .25" and sits just behind the bolt face a little.

i appreciate taking time out of your day/days to help me

sava6e
02-28-2011, 10:13 PM
i don't know anything about your model when setting the head space, sounds to me that with the loaded round the firing pin is pushing the cartridge forward. when you pull the bullet you may be pulling the shoulder forward and cloesing the headspace up so the case does not move forward when hit with the pin

i see your point, im somewhat curious how picky these are with headspacing, i havnt changed any rollers, not to say they arnt proper, the bolt carrier goes into battery and will pull the round out of the chamber when i pull the charging handle back.

sdk1968
03-01-2011, 07:39 AM
ok big big help from you there!!


sounds like yes you have some ROMY stuff. GOOD.

no these guns are NOT that picky on headspace if the rollers are locking into place.

BUT lets back up a little there...

if you only have 25K of FP protrusion then there is the problem...

you should have 40-50K and lots of people allow up to 60K on these for those deep set YUGO primers.
(which is why then they get punctures on commercial stuff..)
thought we had mentioned this early on but that was soo long ago and so many posts ago. LMAO

sava6e
03-01-2011, 01:34 PM
ok, ill get an actual measurement when i get home tonight, and if its not long enough then i'll work on the pin.


:icon_biggrin:

sava6e
03-02-2011, 12:05 AM
so i measured and my calipers are saying .25" and so your saying most people go .6? guess ill work on it and get back hopefully friday evening

i am curious for learning sake, any knowledge of why the primer goes off when no bullet and doesnt when there is?

jfowl31
03-02-2011, 12:15 AM
You're saying the firing pin protrudes 1/4"? Or is that supposed to be .025"? If I read SDK's post correctly he's saying that people shoot for .04-.05" and sometimes up to .06"

sava6e
03-02-2011, 02:37 AM
Correct it will protrude 1/4" if allowed to, I was kinda wondering why it would need more

jfowl31
03-02-2011, 02:45 AM
Well I'm no expert on your weapon but my TC Encore had issues with light strikes and the answer was the opposite of what you've done. I had to take weight off the hammer and install a heavier spring to get it to fire consistently. A heavier hammer moves slower and even though its more mass, what you need is speed for a quick sharp strike for reliable ignition.

waffendude
03-02-2011, 07:31 AM
it is possible that the barrel chamber is not correct or the head space is not correct ?---with no bullet it will fire---insert a complete cartridge --and it wont fire---in the chamber
could the cartridge not be seated completly ? and when the hammer hits it ---the cartridge is moving forward a bit and useing up the hammer energy?
just a thought----
waffen

sdk1968
03-02-2011, 11:48 AM
holy crap!!

i thought you meant .025!!

good catch Jfowl!!

my gun runs fine between 40-50K... no piercing or any trouble at all.

if it holds the round in the bolt face to light a primer then it should hold it when theres a bullet in there as well.

you gotta be pretty close.

couple of things to remember: for those of us with the FAL set up.. by the time we get done cutting the hammer down for clearance it doesnt weigh any more than the AR hammer...

but the SPRING is giving it a lot more power. it will mash the crap out of your finger in a hurry. this is also a little tougher set up to get right.

the AR set up is easier but lots of people have trouble getting enough "umph".. so did you ever get the hammer impact point at the top or a little past on the swing?

lakeracer69
03-19-2011, 02:36 PM
If your firing pin protrudes .250 out of the bolt something is TARFU! As stated before .025 probably too little, .040-.050 seems to be a good range too much over that and you'll pierce primers.

Sound like you have an issue with a weak hammer spring too.

resting
03-19-2011, 05:37 PM
Does your hammer travel far enough forward? Could it be striking the forward lip of the grip stick hole keeping it from rotating forward sufficiently? Saw that once.