8mm or 7.62Russian?

[Alaskagrown]

I am looking for a cabin gun. A gun that I can leave out at my cabin that is inexpensive but can be accurate and powerful enough to take game in the area. I was looking at the Mosins and then a Yugo Mauser caught my eye so now I am not sure what I want to go with... The game in the area includes bear both black and brown as well as moose. I know that the 8mm is close to the equivelant of a 30-06 and the 7.62R is a little lower as far as velocities are concerned. Any shot that would be taken would be 100 yards or less so I am not to worried about a huge accuracy or velocity drop off for any of the calibers. I would have put this in the hunting section but figured here it would get more action.

So here are the choices

Yugo Mauser 8mm for $165
Mosin 91/30 for $129 or $139 can't remember which
Mosin M44 for $139 or $149 can't remember which

[nalioth]

I am looking for a cabin gun. A gun that I can leave out at my cabin that is inexpensive but can be accurate and powerful enough to take game in the area. I was looking at the Mosins and then a Yugo Mauser caught my eye so now I am not sure what I want to go with... The game in the area includes bear both black and brown as well as moose. I know that the 8mm is close to the equivelant of a 30-06 and the 7.62R is a little lower as far as velocities are concerned. Any shot that would be taken would be 100 yards or less so I am not to worried about a huge accuracy or velocity drop off for any of the calibers. I would have put this in the hunting section but figured here it would get more action.

So here are the choices

Yugo Mauser 8mm for $165
Mosin 91/30 for $129 or $139 can't remember which
Mosin M44 for $139 or $149 can't remember whichGet the Mosin 91/30. Ammo is gonna be available for a long time.

[k98k792]

Well for that type of thing commercial hunting ammo is what you need. There are more choices in 8mm,as it is still one of the preeminent hunting cartridges in the world.

[woofert]

Well for that type of thing commercial hunting ammo is what you need. There are more choices in 8mm.

k98k792 makes a good point, I'd check to see what hunting ammo and reload components were available first.

[ELEFANTMKVI (The Inbred clown)]

Well for that type of thing commercial hunting ammo is what you need. There are more choices in 8mm,as it is still one of the preeminent hunting cartridges in the world.

I agree on the 8mm, when useing the Norma and other European loaded hunting ammo it far surpasses the 30-06 and 7.62x54R.:2pistol:

[k98k792]

Midway has several hunting loads,here is one by Hornady
http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=583743

[Norton]

Well for that type of thing commercial hunting ammo is what you need. There are more choices in 8mm,as it is still one of the preeminent hunting cartridges in the world.

I think that was true for the past 60 years. But now they have really improved on the types and prices of 7.62x54 available. The Yugoslavian and Russian civilian soft point seem to be widely sold at good prices.
As for what round would be better for a cabin gun.. I would say the 8 mm would be slightly better, but I don't think a bear or deer could tell.
The M 38 would be easy to hide and you could put a cheap Russian scope on a B square mount and you would be set.

[k98k792]

Avalibility of 8mm ammo is still much greater. You can find it in almost any gunshop,even in backwoods smalltowns.
The safety on the Mauser design is superior.
The 8mm has taken EVERY type of large game on the planet.
Cheap mounts and scopes can be had for the Mauser also if you wish.
If I was going to shoot a Brownie,I would want the best damn bullet design I could get.
Of course I am partial to the Mauser.

[Alaskagrown]

how are the actions to manipulate on the two as well as the safety's which rifle is better made Russian vs Yugo

[Smokehouse69]

In my humble opinion, the Mauser 98 has a smoother action than the Moisin, just my opinion. Both are great rifles and great shooters.
Personally I think the safety on the Moisin is better this is based on the fact that I have 4 98 actions and 3 of the 4 have very difficult to operate (stiff) safeties. My Moisins operate without and trouble.
My Moisins kick one hell of alot harder than my Mausers! :icon_biggrin: But not nearly as hard as a .303 jungle carbine!

[okie shooter]

In my opnion, for mainly game takeing, and it being a rifle you might need ammo on a short notice, I might look more for a 30-06. You can get ammo almost anywhere in this country that sells any ammo. That said, 8mm over the 7.62x54, just much more common loading, and as stated above better action.

[turbothis]

get a hakim. i would charge any bear with mine!


















and the 25 round magazine too.

[Norton]

If you do go with the 8 mm you might want check out Sarco's web page. They have Swedish m 96 with civilian 8 mm barrels. These were factory Swedish 1950s and 60s hunting rifles built on millitary surplus Mauser 98 or Swede 96 actions. They are not hack jobs.. I bought a M 98 with a Swede civilian barrel in 30 06, it had German 1940s quick release scope mounts. The prices are from $189 up some still have German civilian scopes. If you clean them up they are great big game rifles.
By the way the section is econo hunting rifles

[okie shooter]

how are the actions to manipulate on the two as well as the safety's which rifle is better made Russian vs Yugo
Safety, on the Russian, hmm There isnt a safety on the Moisin at all, they rely on the heavy trigger.

[weasel_master]

Safety, on the Russian, hmm There isnt a safety on the Moisin at all, they rely on the heavy trigger.

I can't tell if you're joking or not but the mosins DO have a safety. You pull back on the knob on the back of the bolt then rotate it to the left.

[Rampager]

I can't tell if you're joking or not but the mosins DO have a safety. You pull back on the knob on the back of the bolt then rotate it to the left.

I used to think they didn't have a safety either till a buddy pointed this out to me. On mine, they are a real bear to engage and disengage though. I'd rather just leave the bolt open as safe.

[okie shooter]

I thought they hadn't had one either, Guess its not easly engage thus proably wasn't used much either.(I had been told they didnt, guess I need to check things out, thanks for the corrections guys) I learn something new every day, guess I need to take them out shooting more often. I have two rifles, and havent shot either.

[weasel_master]

Yeah they are definately hard to engage. On all 3 I have they are extremely stiff.

[mrbgt]

91/30 ,you can still buy your ammo in the sealed tins ,just make sure you get the can opener

[esninak]

hey alaska grown, i also live in alaska and i just got a yugo 8mm and a M44. one thing to consider is ammo, are you planning on using surp or factory ammo? i know that in fairbanks its hard as hell to find commercial 8mm or 7.62R, surrplus aint much easier. for a cabin gun i would lean twards an M44 or M38, it can be packed through the bear brush much easier since they are so short, and if you use the 203gr Silver Bear SP im sure you would be fine with any of our game, and its only $5 a box. thats just my oppinion. just to add a little extra, my M44 i just got is from Classic Arms on the net, they are selling some that they hard chromed. they are sweet looking and for a cabin gun, you dont have to worry about rust. thats why i got it actually is for a wheeler gun. i think they are only $150 too, good deal. just my .02

[nevada]

M44 if you want to go with the Russian caliber, Handier than the 91/30 and no probelm with accuracy at 100 yards. Yes, Mosins have a safety, but the bear will get to you before you can operate it. The safety on my Mausers - Yugo and German - are easy to use. The stripper clips work better on Mausers, too.

[jonboy20]

I just picked up a sweet M44 from AIM for $69 and 300 rounds run you about 33, all total with shipping it was $120. So if you are looking for a throw down gun(not me), then you can not beat the price!

[SteelCore]

if the dense pine woods where black bear roam in upper ontraio is at all similar. M-44 has a nice flip out bayo, too.

The M-44 is carbine length, and the corrosive ammo used in them is corrosive for a reason-- corrosive salts int he 762x54R primer is made to resist changes in heat/cold/humidity. The russkis hadta fight in all climes, and needed reliable ammo.

You can get Soft point.

Any reason you're wanting a bolt gun over a semi?

"7.62R is a little lower as far as velocities are concerned"
--That depends on whether or not you fire it from a longer bbl (like 91/30) or shorter bbl (M-44, M-39, etc)...also it is regarded as equla to or more powerful than 30.06 in some sources I've checked out...other say it falls in between the 762Nato and 30-06.

--ETA__

"The .303 British cartridge is probably the closest overall match to the 7.62x54R in terms of age (both date from the late 1800’s), configuration (both are rimmed bottleneck cases of similar length), & ballistics (170-180 gr bullet @ 2300-2400 fps). They also both use .311-.312 diameter bullets.

With proper bullets, both will take anything short of Africa’s Big 5."

WWII rounds from _Cartridges of the World, 6th edition_:
.30-06 Springfield M2: .308, 150gr., 2700 fps (1940-on, Garand loading)
7.62x54R Russian: .310, 147gr., 2886 fps
.303 British Mk VII: .311, 175gr., 2440 fps
7.7x58 Japanese Arisaka: .311, 175gr., 2400 fps
8mm Mauser: .323, 154gr., 2880 fps

[XO3319]

If I was going cheap I'd go with a M1891/30 and a lot of hunting ammo is available for a good time to come

But the Yugo Mauser is a very fine rifle and not too expensive. Hunting ammo will be available for that rifle until you die + about 50 years.

I vote the Mauser plus anyone/thing/goblin hit by a 7.92 will definately go down

[SteelCore]

Heavy is good...that's gonna hit with about 3200-3300 foot pounds per square inch at 100 yds.

Endorsed by these finns:
http://www.kevos4.com/images/bear1a.jpg

And this guy:
http://www.kevos4.com/images/skitroops2.jpg

[nevada]

Great pic of summer hunting in Finland!

[Jacobite]

Personally I have not found any Mosin with accuracy I will depend on. They have to be out there because so many on the net claim good groups from theirs. However I would choose the 8mm mauser of your two picks. Just the ease of safety use is reason enough for me. Plus the chance to get a good shooter is better in my opinion. I also feel the mauser has a smoother action and feeds and loads easier than the Mosins I have shot. Heck if it is just to be a cabin gun look for a mauser that Bubba has butchered. You might find one with a scope for under $200.

[Woodman in MO]

8mm cause of what K98 said. Better ammo choices.

[hunter_la5]

I voted Mauser, but only because I like the sights better. the tapered post of the mauser makes accurate shooting easier for me than the fat rectangle post of the Mosin's, IMHO. they're both fine choices either way

[nevada]

The mauser action is definately easier to cycle, which would cause me to pick it over the mosin as well as the mentioned ease of safety use.

Can't you get some eskimos to pop over the Bering straight and pick some ammo for you?:icon_biggrin:

[jfowl31]

I like both, but I vote Mauser hands down.

1. 8mm is a little harder hitting with the bigger bore.
2. the Rimless casing is a major plus... strippers work better, as does cycling
3. The mauser action is superior in my opinion as far as smoothness and ease of operation
4. A wider variety of ammo is available with 8mm
5. Mosins do have a safety, but its horrendous, and virtually impossible to work with cold hands. Mauser safeties are MUCH easier
6. Sights on a Mauser are much better for fine tuning/ hunting rather than blocky square Russian sights.

Me personally, Id get a Russian capture German K98.

And dont get me wrong, I like Mosins, bu a Mauser is a far superior overall rifle IMO. Even USA copied it with the 03's. The action is still used today on modern commercial rifles, and is still considered one of the top actions to use.

I picked up my RC K98 from Big 5 for $200.... not half bad IMO.

[Rampager]

I like the Mosin and the 54R and all, but when it comes down to a choice between the two, I'd have to go with the Mauser.

The Mauser bolt is much better than the Mosin's IMHO. The Mauser has a better safety also. And if stripper clips ever come into play the Mauser's rounds slide in butter smooth compared to the Mosin's.

Again, I'm not slamming the Mosin, I like it for what it is...a good solid military rifle. The Mauser, even though being a military rifle too compares a little closer to commerial hunting rifles to me than the Mosin though. The 8mm has a slight edge over the 54R too IMHO.

[wonderwolf]

90% of the time My vote would be for a 8mm mauser that being said..I would recommend the Mosin nagant.

Yes the Mauser is a good weapon but I havnt seen many around here that were under $150 for a while..You can get Mosin nagants all week long for under $100 and still have money for a case of ammo. The mosin nagant is simple and robust. Made for the harshest conditions. A mauser MIGHT have some reliablitity issues cause of its tighter tolerances in some conditions.

the 8mm Is a great round but unless you hand load your gonna pay for the privilege of top line hunting ammo

This is going to be a rifle that gets left in the cabin. Might get abused might get stolen??? A mauser is a great gun but I think the MN would fit the bill a little better.

[Rampager]

^ good points too.

It's hard to beat the "bang for buck" factor of the Mosin. At $69-$89 they are probably the best bargain on the surplus market right now, ammo still reasonable right now too. Though I have a feeling that is going to change in the near future.

Buy the 54R ammo while you can cheap!

[XO3319]

I voted 8mm Mauser

[SteelCore]

If you want the most reliable weapon and ammo system you can get for under 200 bucks (and that'll buy a rifle and 880 rnds), you want the Mosin.

I'm not knocking/slamming the Mauser, but hands down you want the Mosin.:sleepy:

"Great pic of summer hunting in Finland!"

-->Heh. Yeah. you can tell its summr in the top pic the guy ont he right has only a shirt on!

"Personally I have not found any Mosin with accuracy I will depend on."

--I've gotten both of mine to do pretty good. If you don't have an accurate mosin, I've found it comes down to 2-3 things:

1) Cleaning - The mosin will have tons of old copper fouling in there...clean, clean, clean using a copper solvent like Sweets, or Pro Shot' copper solvent.

2) Practice, practice, practice - The Russian military themselves said that the Mosin had the longest training cycle of all their weapon systems. I shot 140+ rounds thru mine b4 I started getting consistent and confident. It is not an AR, where all who pick it up are doing quarter sized groups at 100yds.

3) Trigger set - Some mosins have horrible triggers, some break nice. Always dry fire a mosin b4 buying...if you don't like the trigger, there are some adjustable triggers and replacement triggers...and clenaing really helps.

Oh, and remember to check the bbl and trig guard screws for tightness. if they're loose (and they do work themselves loose from shock/humidity change) you won;t get any accuracy.


(All the praise for the 8mm mauser makes me wanna try one out tho.)

[k98k792]

So you have not tried the Mauser?

[mofocus]

jg has M38s for $99, and AIM has then for $69, thats where id go, less you wanted to sport the funds for a M39, now that would be choice ;)

[Jacobite]

I don't know how anyone who don't have a mauser can recomend a Mosin over one. Well wait yes I do. If they did have a mauser or experiance with one they would know it is the better rifle.:2pistol:

[mofocus]

also better at getting stolen, and you wouldnt want it to be as much a knock around gun

[SteelCore]

OK, fine, Jacobite and K98 cal me out.:airtight: I don't have a mauser, but that doesn't invalidate my endorsement of a Mosin, or 762x54R

The title of the thread is not "Which WWII bolt gun is superior" which is your point, I suspect. I am merely saying that it is totally acceptable as a cabin gun, cheap, effective, shoots ammo that is made for any climate, hits moment of paper plate at 100+yds...

(Like I said, I'll prolly have to spring fer a Mauser, b4 the really get any more expensive...I'm intrigued.)

The thread and the poll have to do with an ammo type, so I'd still endorse the 762x54R ammo over 8mm....whether it goes thru a mosin or some rare Winchester Mod 95.

[Seattlefungus]

When I was a kid, a cabin gun was left in the cabin off season, maybe hidden in an oilcloth. It was something reliable and ammo was cheap and stored in old GI ammo cans. I have a K98 RC, a Yugo M48, 1903 and 1903A3 and 91/30, M38 and M44. For just a cabin gun, I'd go with the M38. About the size of a 30.30. A hard hitting round. I was always tought that the best safety was no finger on the trigger unless you were going to shoot. The reason Nagant bores are so inconsistant is'nt the copper fowling.. It's the rush of production. They blued the bores too... So the more you clean them and shoot them, the more of the bluing you'll get out. I was trying to figure why every Nagant I saw had a dark bore. I used a bore light. Every one had a blued bore. We always plug barrels before bluing or Parking. The Russians were in a hurry to just get the rifles into the hand of the troops. Then then they stored them in the 50's, they serviced them and reblued and counter bored most of them. Just look down the barrel. You see a nice shiny crown, then 1.5 inch of smoth barrel until the lands & groves pick-up. And it's totally blued... Chamber too...

[k98k792]

Around here the cabin guns were usually an old pump shotgun with a variety of buckshot,bird shot and slugs. One gun to do it all.
I still have my Dads cabin gun a early 50s wingmaster with the corncob fore grip, in 16guage.
It took everything from rabbits,squirrels,quail to deer.


Damn I miss him.

[SteelCore]

Weirdest thing...I have yet to find and hold a counterbored mosin of any make. NEVER seen one, held scores of them.

[k98k792]

I have a counterbored M38. Still seems to shoot pretty good.

[jfowl31]

that is weird steely

on the M44' and 38's around here, Id say 80-90% are counterbored, and probable more like 60-70% of the 91's are as well.... is it possible you just arent looking for it?

In fact I bought my old 38 that I bought, I bought specifically because it was rare to find one with an bore that was NOT counterbored.

[Jacobite]

Out of 4, 91/30's we got none were counterbored.

[Seattlefungus]

I have 8 91/30's none counter bored. 4 m38, 4 m44, all counter bored....

[jfowl31]

I'll have to check the 91/30's closer I guess now...

One thing that could be a culprit though is that the vendors around here only buy the lowest grade stuff... maybe the reason Ive seen so many counter bores is because they are buying poor-fair grade bores which are more likely to be butchered.

[Seattlefungus]

I don't know. I've spoken on occasion with a very knowledgeable collector that told me it was a "Russian" thing. Counter boring before putting them into storage after re-arsenal & refinishing them. That, and their love of shellac as a wood finish. That the workers got 1/4 liter vodka break, like our coffee break a few times each shift. That was why sometime you see the shellac on the metal... That was later in the shift and they were getting a buzz...