War trophy red tape?

[Phirebug]

I was wondering if anybody here knows the proper way to document and bring home a weapon from Iraq. I've tried asking my chain of command, and I get a different answer from everybody. I figured that you guys know a lot more about guns than they do, and since a lot of you are also soldiers, some of you may be more familiar with the Army regs and which forms to fill out and hoops to jump through.

The rifle in question is a Pattern 1914 Enfield. From what little info I can find on the rifle, I believe it is one of the early manufacture models before the brits began contracting them out to winchester and remington, and it has not been rearsenaled. that both helps and hurts the collector value, as it still has the original volley sight, but the stock is in some SAD shape. It's not so much that I've got a rare and valuable rifle...it probably wouldn't sell for over $300. It's just that it's an unusual and uncommon rifle, it's a piece of history, and of all places for it to turn up, we found it buried under some trash in the back of an insurgent's hut. It's also got some deep sentimental value, not so much because of my attachment to the rifle itself, but because of the circumstances under which it was given to me. If you're curious, PM me, it's just that it doesn't need to be made public.

Can I bring this home? Can I mail it to an FFL or C&R holder from an APO post office? (and if so, could you please provide some sort of documentation that proves this, as the guys at the APO probably know NOTHING about this and are going to flip when I try to pack up a rifle and send it to America)

Since the rifle was most likely never officially imported into the United States, how would I go about registering it?

I really, really want to bring this rifle home and add it to my collection, but I want to do it the right way so that I don't come home and find out I just broke half a dozen federal laws and lose my entire gun collection for the sake of one rifle.

Thanks!
james

[turbothis]

i would like you to be able to bring it home too. i think this is a case where the laws only hurt honest people. all of the weapons that are smuggled into this country and a vet cant bring a historic rifle in. kinda a sad thing for a great nation to do in my honest opinion.

you could always send it to mexico and have a border jumper hand deliver it faster than any other form of mail!:eek:

[SteelCore]

Sounds cool, but I don't think there is any way to import it. I think the way ppl got them back b4 was not very above-board, or wasn't regulated allthose years ago. I din't know anyone from the sandbox that was able to bring anything back, and there have been cases where ppl did bring them back, and got popped.

I think that each unit may have a diff way to handle bring-back items, but the rifles...dunno.

TT...that last sentece will prolly get yanked by the mods...read the forum rules.

-Found this in a thread elsewhere:

"Individual Soldiers sending weapons home is a different matter, Cole said. Before 1968, Soldiers could send weapons home without much of a problem. That year Congress passed the 1968 Gun Control Act, which, among other things, made it illegal to send weapons through the mail.

It also created a weapons registry and tax a gun owner would have to pay on that weapon, Cole said.

The Department of the Treasury administered the registry and eventually closed it, making it impossible to register and pay the tax, thus making the weapons illegal to own."

More here: http://www.gunandgame.com/forums/militaria-collectables/17308-has-any-one-gotten-any-cool-stuff-out-iraq.html

"There are exceptions, Cole said.

Army regulations state there are weapons a Soldier can send home legally. A 35th Signal Brigade Soldier sending an 1856 Musketoon rifle home from Afghanistan last year is a case in point.

Because the weapon was made during or before 1898, it was an exception to the banned weapons on the 1968 Gun Control Act's list. Not only was it made before 1898, the Soldier also filled out the proper paperwork to bring it home.

"The key there is that he bought it," Cole said. "It wasn't something he took from somewhere.""

[M1 Tanker]

Phirebug, I'm 99% sure the currect DoD policy only allows you to bring back rifles made before 1899 and I think it excludes centerfire rifles. The only weapons I've seen come home are muzzleloaders. Goto Battalion legal and ask them, I would try hard anyway.

[cbear]

Here's an article from 2003 I found.
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_prfr/is_200304/ai_3290519093

Edit- I found the reg. in PDF
http://www.usmc.mil/directiv.nsf/6132dc9fe2213a378525707a00532d62/a51cda355aea6918852564970066aa95/$FILE/MCO%205800.6A.pdf



Air Force, Central Command set war trophy policy
US Air Force Press Releases by Scott Elliott

4/21/2003 - WASHINGTON -- Servicemembers deployed supporting Operation Iraqi Freedom may be tempted to bring home souvenirs of their war experience, but Air Force legal officials are urging them to think twice.

Depending on the item, bringing home a "war trophy" could lead to court-martial, said Lt. Col. Karen L. Manos, legal staff officer in the Air Force's operations law division at the Pentagon.

Air Force Joint Instruction 31-217, "Control and Registration of War Trophies and War Trophy Firearms," has been in effect since the Vietnam era, Manos said. The instruction specifies what a servicemember must do to legally bring home a war trophy, and lists items that are not allowed to be brought home.

"(The instruction) lets you bring home certain things, but it requires written permission from the theater commander," Manos said. "If you don't get permission, it would be like theft -- it would actually violate the Uniform Code of Military Justice and (the perpetrator) could be court-martialed."

Two airmen were prosecuted by court-martial for violating the instruction following Operation Desert Storm.

According to the instruction, servicemembers are not allowed to claim the following as trophies:

-- Property belonging to the United States or an allied nation.

-- Nameplates pulled from any type of equipment.

-- Live ammunition, flammables, explosives or any item containing explosives.

-- Weapons that are defined as firearms by the National Firearms Act.

[walt-oxie1]

I have heard of firearms being brought back as property of the unit not an individual. You may look into this option if you cannot bring it back for yourself.

[XO3319]

Tanker is correct

Check with your lawyer

Rifle manufactured since 1899 only

No handguns at all

and the historical program is broken too-- my battalion is still trying to bring home an RPK we captured in March 2003 in the 'Stan

[WildBillCody]

Bake the parts into a loaf of bread, you said the stock isn't any good anyway.
J/K wouldn't want to see you get in trouble.

[okie shooter]

Bake the parts into a loaf of bread, you said the stock isn't any good anyway.
J/K wouldn't want to see you get in trouble.
That thing would be one long italian sub roll, four feet long, for the barreled action eh. :)

Ironically after the first gulf war, Guys I knew said the conex/milvans the unit had, were never searched, they sealed them and unsealed them when they got back, thus there proably were guys sending almost anything and everything back from there.

[XO3319]

They learned from the 1st Gulf War-- customs inspectors went through every container.

But my guys still brought an intact 82mm mortar back they wanted to display in front of the Battery. Had to turn that one back into the museum. I almost died when they brought it into the Sergeant Majors office.

[kevin]

ive been told if you travel with a general (bodyguard) you can get stuff back because they wont search your his/your stuff

[WildBillCody]

Even better put it inside a General, no one would search there.

[Woodman in MO]

You'd have to remove the stick first...

[tanstaafl4y]

You'd have to remove the stick first...

Removing the stick isn't normally a problem...its all the Majors that get in the way.