Women in Combat--Special Units

[mitchstoner]

Has anyone else seen this? http://www.military.com/news/article/female-special-operators-now-in-combat.html?ESRC=dod.nl

Half my brain says, "well it's about time," considering the stated mission, and the culture of the places we are currently engaged--Iraq and Afghanistan. I'm sure these female operators will be valuable for intel gathering and having to deal with Iraqi/Afghan women who are possibly engaging in insurgent activity.

The other half says "no friggin way!" for at least a dozen reasons.

[drine]

Whatever it takes.

[ctdemolay0405]

its a new generation. I've never thought women were any inferior to men as long as they pulled their own weight. the ones who try to use their female prowess to manipulate men to do their work are the ones that suck.

yes, i know the liberals of past generations won with that statement, but people my age are very good about looking past race, gender, creed, etc.

btw, the wife does still make me breakfast, so the libs didnt totally win!

[chili]

I am mixed on this. Part of me says "yep, you wanted to be in the military, now pick up a rifle and stand post" other says "No way".

On a personal note: I have seen 110lb Security Police females, sling a M60, spare barrel and then pick up 4 cans of ammo and take all of it to the Hummer. I have alsoseen 180lb guys complain about having to carry "aal of that weight" by themselves. IMHO, it's all about mind set.

[Norton]

I don't see it as anything but common sense
It seems like a throwback to the 1950/60s big city's police department policy. That is you have a 'policewomen' talk to the women or in some cases kids (little girls). The thinking was.. They will feel more comfortable talking to a lady police officer, rather than some gruff Bulldog looking detective. I can see these old fashioned middle eastern women or childern not wanting to talk to some big burly Western trooper. But a women soldier trained in the cultural norms of the area, could sit down in private and say look I am not a Storm Trooper, I am a lady like you. Then ask who did this to you, where do they come from, who are they.. How many weapons?
Maybe she would get a correct reply and we could get some important tips

[Planning]

i will tell you that when the stuff hits the fan you do not care what sex, color, etc. the person next to you is. i have been there and women do great in battle.

during tet 68 we got 2 C-123's full of m-yards, the whole family was with them. when the husband was killed or wounded the wife took his spot. the women were exceptional in combat. the sad part is most of the men were killed in the first 2 days. ( they had never been in a town before and didn't have a clue about city fighting, but that is another story for later.) bottom line is they saved our A$$ for those days.

when i was in the reserves we had to qualify/requalify on the M-16, almost all the women fired expert, (all of them qualifed). about a third of the men didn't qualify ( they had to go back the next day) and only a few of us fired expert.

would i be willing to have women in combat on my team. you bet i would.


side note, i have fought against women in fire fights and you could not tell the men from the women in the battle.

ron

[APEXgunparts]

I have a good friend who is currently in Afghanistan working as a contractor.
He spends a great deal of time moving from one FOB to the next working on systems.
He has remarked to me about the number of Female Soldiers he has encountered.
The Romanian FOB's have had Female Commanders as well as Section Leaders.
The Marines have Female door gunners as well as the Female Marines running the TOC at the FOB's.
The British and Canadians have Female Soldiers on their FOB's working in combat roles.
I am sure this is very common, we just are not aware of it.

Richard

[DAA1]

I would argue women in combat units would make sense.
Has anyone seen some of the female Soldiers? Just like men, some of these women are just as tough or tougher, and I think they deserve a fair chance to show that. We can argue gender roles, physical fitness, emotional stress, etc, but there are some darn tough women out there. Judge them by the their qualifications just as you would anyone else, some of them will show you just how tough they are. The days of women in support roles are coming to an end, so we may as well train them and prepare them so just like any other combat Soldier they have tools to get the job done.

[Perro Del Diablo]

i would definately prefer to have her on my side than on the other - i would hate to make her angry

I think they should make a special forces group of Fem Troopers trained to go in and nag the enemy into submission!! They could get the enemy to lose the will to fight and want to leave the area immediately :snicker: (kidding)

[chili]

Holy crap! That chick has a serious hole under her nose.

Perro--your all girl combat squad should also be PMSing to achieve maximum combat effectiveness. jk

[APEXgunparts]

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/17/national/17medal.html

Female M.P. Wins Silver Star for Bravery in Iraq Firefight

By ERIC SCHMITTPublished: June 17, 2005

WASHINGTON, June 16 - Sgt. Leigh Ann Hester, a military police officer in the Kentucky National Guard, became the first female soldier awarded the Silver Star since World War II, for her role in thwarting an Iraqi insurgent ambush in March, the military said Thursday.

27994

Jeremy D. Crisp/United States Army via Getty Images
Sgt. Leigh Ann Hester of the Kentucky National Guard receiving the Silver Star in Iraq.

In a 90-minute firefight, Sergeant Hester and handful of other Guard soldiers fought off more than 30 insurgents armed with assault rifles, machine guns and rocket-propelled grenades after the force attacked a supply convoy southeast of Baghdad. The Americans killed 27 and wounded or captured 7 others, the military said. Sergeant Hester, 23, a store manager in Nashville in civilian life, and seven other members of her unit, the 617th Military Police Company, received medals on Thursday in Baghdad from Lt. Gen. John R. Vines of the Army, the American ground commander in Iraq.

She is believed to be the first woman to receive the Silver Star, the Army's third-highest award for gallantry, in more than 60 years, said Martha Rudd, a spokeswoman for the Army. Mary Roberts Wilson was the first woman given a Silver Star, for gallantry at the Battle of Anzio in World War II.

About 140 Silver Stars have been awarded for bravery in Iraq.

The rescue and Sergeant Hester's role in repelling the assault gained news coverage as Congress debated proposals to limit women's positions in combat zones.

Under a Pentagon policy from 1994, women may not be in direct ground combat units smaller than brigades, because the smaller units typically have a greater likelihood of engaging the enemy. Ground combat units are defined as infantry, armor, Special Forces, field artillery and combat engineers.

The counterinsurgencies in Iraq and Afghanistan illustrate the blurring of traditional battlefield boundaries, exposing troops in support units like the military police to direct combat. About 15,000 female troops are in Iraq. Thirty-five servicewomen have been killed there.

Critics of the current restrictions have pointed to Sergeant Hester's actions as an example of how women can hold their own in combat.

Her unit was patrolling at midday on March 20 near Salman Pak, Iraq, when a convoy of 30 civilian trucks nearby came under attack. Sergeant Hester and her units sped three Humvees through the weapons fire, turning up a dirt road to cut off the attack, according to a military account.

Sergeant Hester and her soldiers stopped their Humvees and ran to a berm, firing at the attackers with rifles and grenades.

"Bullets were flying everywhere," Sergeant Hester, who was not injured, said in an interview in April with Knight-Ridder newspapers. "I could hear them pinging off the truck in back of me."

She and another soldier ran into a trench, firing at three or four fighters 150 feet away. "Her actions saved the lives of numerous convoy members," the award citation said.

[Bad Monkey]

I don't see a really issue with it. The Russians during WWII had woman snipers and as far as I know the only woman ace. If the can do the job let them.

[bladeworks123]

I think.....it's fine by me...

27995

[APEXgunparts]

US Marines and the Brits...

ALL US Marines are Riflemen...

27996

[brewskzilla]

Aw... How cute are THEY?!?! er...ahem... I mean... OORAH!... Yeah, that's what I meant to say... yeah...

[HKILLER]

I think.....it's fine by me...

27995I would love if she held my gun!

[rpmfly2]

That could be arranged through hormone therapy!
Just stay gone for 7-10 days and hope they don't turn on each other!


Holy crap! That chick has a serious hole under her nose.

Perro--your all girl combat squad should also be PMSing to achieve maximum combat effectiveness. jk

[SSwee]

Brits have messed up covers. Look like something that would go over a kilt.

[Nazgul]

I would love if she held my gun! I got dibs on her first! =)

[bladeworks123]

Let's not leave out the Israeli's,,,,,
28005

[Perro Del Diablo]

I've known alot of hardcore Women Marines in my lifetime, and i know alot of WMs who would be perfect in a combat role. I proudly call them sisters, and i feel they should have the ability to serve if they choose.

I would hate to be a father whose daughter was about to go into combat in a country especially intolerant of women, and worry about what most likely would happen to her if she ever got caught.

I don't know really - im on the fence about it
there is no reason why they cant handle the job, but is it the right place to put women? Men are hardwired to be the white knight and to do the right thing for women. It is in our nature to want to drop our coat in a mud puddle so she doesnt get dirty - its hard wired into our melons.
Then there is the issue of troopies falling in love - or lust. I have been on ship with a bunch of horn dog Devil Dogs and Squids who haven't seen women in 6 months and woo wee, i wouldnt want my daughter anywhere near some of my best friends i had back then - what about lack of sex in combat when you have your fellow female soldier in the fox hole next to you?

There is no doubt they deserve to do the job and can handle the job. It is not them i worry about but the men (on both our side, and the enemies)
maybe my white knight instincts are kicking in here and trying to protect the woman from harm, but not sure if its the right place for them and it has nothing to do with them being able to do the job, and everything to do with what is hard wired in a mans mind.

Ladies - tell me where im wrong?

[bladeworks123]

I think our society has has created an invisible double line in the sand. There are those of us who were raised to believe that women are intended to be worshipped and protected, there are those chauvinists who have twisted that thinking in their favor and came up with "it's not a womans place." And there are those who are so egotistical that they can't admit that a woman could be as "good" as they are at something. I agree with Perro on the sexual issues it may cause, but firmly believe that could be simply handled by a unilateral policy that allowed for females to administer a well placed shot to the knee cap of any mental midget that is that short of self control, morals and ethics. I think that if a person wants to be a combat troop, and can prove themselves by established uniform standards, then they should be allowed to do just that. Do not deny them the privilege of serving if they want to, based on sexist or antiquated moral beliefs that can be leveraged by those who don't want to see a woman do as good or even better than they can do.

[Perro Del Diablo]

i agree with that Blades. In a perfect society it would work great.

This is my experiance of how things went when there was lack of sex
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aI-c2mD7hmQ&feature=related

True story based off of the diary from a Rolling Stones journalist.



like i said, i dont fear her being able to do the job, i fear what happens when you place a female next to a male in a very stressful situation when lack of sex is involved lol.
There are very natural responses in both men and women when you place them together, and is combat the place to do that?? I'm on the fence.

[SteelCore]

What Norton said. Planning and others: Good context and perspective. It my stydies of military history, women in combat go back about 7000 years. Most times, cultures that had a warrior class or caste had plenty of women out kickin arse, alongside the men, all times, all places. And when your country is invaded, and the populace take up arms, women AND children fight.

Not here to say it is right or wrong (as so much in war is wrong), but there is historical precedent around the world for martial cultures to have women in combat. If they could do it with bows, spears, clubs, chariots, swords, axes, and knives, I think they may be able to swing some modern arms as well.

[SteelCore]

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c290/wisemanhousehold/forums/LMB1.jpg

Note the USMC tat. Teufelhunden!

[Sapheit warrior]

I recently read a book called "The Athena project" by Brad Thor. The Spec ops group is 100% female. Its inline with this thread.

[SteelCore]

This thread needz moar....WONDER WOMAN!
http://cache.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/8/2010/10/lynda-carter-as-wonder-woman.jpg

[mitchstoner]

Not gonna say that women can't do the job. Some can, some can't and never will be able to, just like some men.

And I think there's not much more likelihood of men taking sexual advantage than in civilian life. Some male supervisors or co-workers will attempt it, also some female supervisors or coworkers will attempt it. Actually the sex taking place is more likely to be the consensual kind than not, just like in civilian life, and the consequences are more likely to fall on the female participant than the male, just like in civilian life.

My problem is probably just because I was raised in a different era. The idea of a male soldier getting cut down in his prime, mutilated, maybe taken prisoner and abused, just seems to me to be one of the risks of war. With a female soldier, the prospect of those risks just seem to me to be much more horrible.

Guess I'm an old chauvinist.



P.S. Lynda Carter=HOT.

[Perro Del Diablo]

yup - those are some very beautiful women for sure - i cannot imagine 1 single heterosexual male not wanting to share a foxhole with them thousands and thousands of miles away from home, in a galaxy far far away.

It would give me something nice to look at to distract me when they are shooting at me .............. oh wait............. Im not supposed to be looking at that when people are shooting me.

The work thing in civilian life?? Sure, most men have enough control where they wouldnt rape a beautiful office worker, but if you think ANY work is getting done when that beautiful office co worker is passing by you are CRAZY. Combat is work to Soldiers and Marines, and if you think any work is getting done effeciantly when that nice WM with the huge ummm biceps is sitting next to you im claiming BS


my opinions only :)