C&R Question:Giving a gun as a present

[weasel_master]

My girlfriend's brother just graduated high-school and had his birthday. I have an Enfield I am going to give him. I am a resident of MN but have my C&R for my MI address where I live. I know I cannot sell to anyone who isn't a MN resident but can I give a gun for a present to someone outside my resident state? I figure since I am not selling it but just giving it, it shouldn't be a big deal. I just want to make sure I'm doing it right before I log it out in my book and give it away. If it's not legal I'll just have a 01FFL transfer out of my name and into his. He is over 18 as well.

[pigpen]

Did you send a change of address to the ATF?

[Seattlefungus]

As you have a Class 3, you are kinda stuck. You would be best to do the plan you have where you have a class 1 do the transfer for you. When I got my Class 1, I asked the ATF Agent about my transferring a weapon I owned in my personal collection and had acquired years ago and if I decided to sell or give the weapon away he said as I was a regulated License Holder I put my self in the position where I could no longer do that without doing the whole transfer logs, and ATF transfer with all corresponding documentation... So I'd check with ATF, but I think you have the right of it, transfer to the class 1, and they transfer to your friend.

[weasel_master]

Did you send a change of address to the ATF?

Maybe I was a little unclear. My resident state (drivers license, license plate etc.) is MN. I have been in MI for a bit now as I am going to college here. This allows me to keep my MN residency though. I didn't apply for my C&R until I was in MI so I didn't need to file a change of address. I actually did send in a change of address a few weeks ago because I moved a few streets down into a different apartment though.

[Schultz]

I have a C&R also and did give one of my rifles in my collection as a gift to my son. I did it with the stipulation the if he ever wanted to get rid of it it would come back to me so technically its still in my collection. I would call the ATF and ask to be safe however i was told that as a gift it could be done just as long as it wasn't done frequently as that would draw suspicion.

[M1 Tanker]

If the gun crosses state lines, then its an interstate transfer and you must send it through a FFL. If your 03FFL address is in MI, and he lives in MI, then you can just log it out to him. But if he lives in MN, and your 03FFL address is MI, then it becomes an interestate transfer.

Even as a gift, its still interstate.

[NavajoNPaleFace]

As a C&R FFL holder you should have gotten a clarification letter from BATFE a year or so ago about this very same issue. I did.

In that letter they said you, even as a 03 FFL holder, can give a gun away
and even sell a C&R gun to someone just like ANY citizen can do.

What they mentioned in that letter, too, is that your C&R license allows you to collect and trade but NOT conduct a business solely in buying and selling for profit so you could even, on rare occasion, sell a C&R.

Granted if you ship the rifle you will have to ship it to aminimum of a 03 FFL holder an it cannot be given or shipped across state lines on a C&R.

Be careful of your state, county, or local legal issues.

Keep in mind you will still need to log ANY C&R gun in your acquisition and disposition log. Even C&Rs you purchased BEFORE you received your 03 C&R license.

Now, if the person you intend to give it to comes to your state I am thinking he/she would be legal to take it to their state as long as they are legally able to possess that rifle in their state.

I might be wrong but that's what I am thinking.

[cetme]

I would just call the MPLS office of the BATFE they have been more than helpful with all my questions in the past.

[NavajoNPaleFace]

I would just call the MPLS office of the BATFE they have been more than helpful with all my questions in the past.

After I posted my initial message and left the computer I thought of the same thing.

When I first started up 9 years, or so, ago, I wore out the phone line to the Phoenix office and they were polite, helpful, informative and got back with me within a reasonable time on issues that didn't have the answer to.

I think the important thing I think of is no matter how WE read the laws it's how they say it's enforced.

[M1 Tanker]

Keep in mind you will still need to log ANY C&R gun in your acquisition and disposition log. Even C&Rs you purchased BEFORE you received your 03 C&R license.


thats not correct. I talked to BATF (Dallas Office) 3 weeks ago about this. I shipped 3 C&R rifles to a a 07FFL for bluing. 2 rifles were acquired with my C&R and 1 rifle years before my C&R.

They said to log out my 2 rifles that were on my books to the 07FFL. Then log them back in when I received them back. When I asked about my other rifle, they said it should never cross my bound book.

[Norton]

So clear this up for me .. If a CR holder gives a rifle to an adult relative in his or her state as a gift .It will have to be marked disposed in the bound book. But if a non CR holder buys a shotgun a Wall Mart and gives it away as a birthday present they don't? What of out of state gifts to family members who can own that weapon in his or her state do I have mark it my bound book?.. i.e Christmas presents.

[weasel_master]

So clear this up for me .. If a CR holder gives a rifle to an adult relative in his or her state as a gift .It will have to be marked disposed in the bound book. But if a non CR holder buys a shotgun a Wall Mart and gives it away as a birthday present they don't? What of out of state gifts to family members who can own that weapon in his or her state do I have mark it my bound book?.. i.e Christmas presents.

With a C&R you HAVE to log in/out any firearms. If you give it away, you no longer have it, thus have to log it out. It's vaguely like a library. You check out books when they leave and check them in when they come.

[Norton]

That clears it up.. thank you

[NavajoNPaleFace]

One thing many looking at getting a C&R license don't know...and I didn't....is that, as a licensee, the holder must record every C&R transaction. Technically that includes ANY C&R one buys from a private person, at a gun show, etc.

BUT

If you don't have the license and act like Joe Blow Public you don't have to do Didley!

That in itself sucks!

[weasel_master]

It's not really that big of a hassle to record them in the bound book. It's just something that comes with the territory.

[okie shooter]

One thing many looking at getting a C&R license don't know...and I didn't....is that, as a licensee, the holder must record every C&R transaction. Technically that includes ANY C&R one buys from a private person, at a gun show, etc.

BUT

If you don't have the license and act like Joe Blow Public you don't have to do Didley!

That in itself sucks!

Yes but the hassles of keeping reacords as a C&R collector comes with bennies, like getting guns delivered to the door that meet the qualifications of being curios and relics, the rest of the joe blow public cannot do that. Thus the rest of us pay transfers from dealers and such on the great stuff you guys get to just write in the book. Plus carry copies of the lic with you and it allows you to buy qualified firearms out of state, there is something Joe Blow Public dont get to do either. At the "big" shows here in oklahoma, there are out of state dealers with pallets of C&R stuff that only licenced dealers plus C&R lic. collectors can get too. If you want one, as Joe Blow, you pay a nearby dealer for a transfer.

[Seattlefungus]

You guys see why I like this forum... You all have a wealth of information and experience and share it with out flaming noob's ... Kind of like a bunch of experienced craftsmen walking the newbies through the process with out calling people stupid or flaming... I feel very fortunate that I found, 1st CETME Rifles, saddened by it's loss and very happy that the legacy has continued. I can learn more about what ever weapon I want to find something about in this place than any other forum I've tried, Transfer info and any firearm topic... And the folks in the WTB & WTS are great too!

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