heavy duty buffer

[biblenguns]

Hi, I am new here so I hope I am doing this right. I am interested in installing the new R.T.G. heavy duty buffer in my P.T.R 91. They are out of stock at the moment and I am on a waiting list for it. The buffer that comes with the gun appears to be a solid piece of steel,the new buffer is spring loaded and is supposed to take some of the impact out of the action and reduce felt recoil. Has anyone had any experience changing out the buffer or with this new buffer? Any help would be appreciated.

[jdowney]

Can't help with info, but I would suggest you post the question in the cetme/HK forum, might get more traffic there.

I suspect you'd have to deepen the buffer hole and toss the rear screw, as that buffer looks pretty long. I don't think you actually need the rear buffer screw on the HK style recoil assembly, as the two screws on the front should hold everything together nicely.

[holescreek]

I don't have the answer either but the idea leaves me scratching my head and wondering.
I thought the idea behind the heavy buffer was to take the shock from heavy machine gun fire? I can't imagine anyone shooting any of the standard ammo avaialble needing a heavy buffer in a semi auto. It isn't going to change the effect of recoil any, right? I think on a semi-auto you can get better control (felt recoil) by changing the LP angle.

[HKaltwasser]

I don't have the answer either but the idea leaves me scratching my head and wondering.
I thought the idea behind the heavy buffer was to take the shock from heavy machine gun fire? I can't imagine anyone shooting any of the standard ammo avaialble needing a heavy buffer in a semi auto. It isn't going to change the effect of recoil any, right? I think on a semi-auto you can get better control (felt recoil) by changing the LP angle.

I don't know for certain about this particular buffer but heavy buffers do reduce felt sharp recoil. Makes it more of a smoother puuuush. The HK PSG1 comes with a heavy single or double stage buffer and it is only a semi auto. It justs makes it a much smoother shooting experience. This one of the reasons people like the PSG1 over other more accurate semi autos is because of the smoothness that this buffer(HK Heavy) helps create. Get a PWS muzzle brake and a heavy buffer and you'll notice a difference. I believe the one that RTG gets is from Ghilliebear(AKA Jeff Walters). He's a well know HK builder and I have read that people have had good results with this buffer.

[holescreek]

I believe that the weight of the PSG1 rifle (listed at 15.9 pounds) has more to do with the smoothness than the buffer. There are an awful lot of competition shooters of all types of weapons who weight their rifles with lead to achieve the same effect.

[7.62guy]

I believe that the weight of the PSG1 rifle (listed at 15.9 pounds) has more to do with the smoothness than the buffer. There are an awful lot of competition shooters of all types of weapons who weight their rifles with lead to achieve the same effect. all this is true, but on the same note i can fell a differance when the 91's are in a stock with a heavy buffer vrs the factory stocks. the sr9 in the thumbhole stock, which has the heavy buffer, shots softer than when it is in a prs stock with a standard buffer. not going to try and explain it. it just is.

[biblenguns]

Thanks for the replies, my thought behind this was to reduce the recoil some, but mainly to keep the bolt from hammering that solid buffer. It just dosn't seem that it can be doing the gun any good. I have also noticed that the pin closest to the grip is hard to extract and replace now,I think it may be taking a lot of shock. This new buffer is supposed to be a direct replacement for the stock buffer, I was hoping someone may have done this already. The cost of this buffer is $65 from R.T.G. . This PTR 91 has become my favorite rifle,I noticed that I don't even look at the others that much anymore.

[jdowney]

The standard buffer isn't solid, it should have a spring or some such in there (but I've never taken one apart)

[holescreek]

They have rubber discs inside. I had a really old one that felt solid too. When I took it apart the discs had all hardened and broke when I took them out. I replaced them with a die spring, put it back together and have been shooting it for a year or so. I bought replacement discs from Apex but keep forgetting about replacing the spring with them.

[bladeworks123]

There is a noticeable difference in the recoil with the heavy buffers, and faster recovery shot to shot for me.

[rustypirate]

both the CETME and G3 have buffers that absorb recoil. the CETME one was made up of rubber and leather disks. The G3 was an improvement of this design by using a steel spring and leather insert to stiffen it up a bit. If properly adjusted, and with good bolt gap, these rifles should not "beat" the buffer assemblies. This is an indication of something else being out of spec.
If I remember correctly the heavy buffer was designed for the HK 11/21 and other light machine guns that ran in full auto primarily. They were adopted in the PSG rifles and other precision rifles that were built off of the G3 platform due to the reduced recoil and faster return to target.

[The Great 308]

I have not used the heavy buffer that RTG sells it is the one made by Jeff walters AKA ghilliebear, but I have heard many good reviews of it on HKpro. The ghilliebear buffer has the same OD as a standard buffer but is longer it should slip right into your PTR stock without problems. Some stocks may need modifications. For example if you have a wood buttstock you would need to drill the buffer hole deeper.

http://www.hkpro.com/forum/hk-clone-talk/144238-ghilliebuffer-rocks.html

As a note Bill Springfield makes a kit to modifiy a standard buffer with a longer piston and a different spring. He also has a version for the collapsable stock. These do not require any modifications to the butt stock.

http://www.triggerwork.net/hksbuffer.html

As others have said the standard HK stock buffer is not solid it has an internal spring but they are very hard to compress. I will also note that I did have one standard HK buffer that was stuck (this came in one of my PTRs). I had to take it apart to free it up.

I have used standard buffers, HK heavy buffers and PSG1 buffers, there is a big difference in felt recoil with either the heavy buffer or the PSG1 buffer. It makes the rifle much more plesant to shoot.

I also recommend a Hk21 rubber butt pad. HKparts.net has the originals and a US made version. These attach to the buttstock in the same manner as the stock butt pad and are softer with a larger surface area. If you use one of these with a heavy buffer and compare it to the standard set up there is a very large improvement in felt recoil. As described above it turns the recoil into more of a push.

[bladeworks123]

Bill Springfield is also producing a variant, which is available as a drop in replacement for buffers that have gone "hard". I have a couple of builds right now that the customers have requested Bill's buffers in, and I will post a review when I'm done with one and can test it against a good factory buffer.


http://www.triggerwork.net/hksbuffer.html

[hansellhd]

http://www.triggerwork.net/hksbuffer.html

I have two of them (Springfield buffer) one is used in a G3 wood stock (HK91) the other is in a G3 plastic stock (PTR91) and yes they will reduce that sharp recoil impulse. I also run a msg90 buffer on my PTR91 GI, effective but expensive.

http://www.hkparts.net/shop/pc/Enhanced-HK-Buffer-For-HK-German-MSG90-PSG1-114p1014.htm