Conservation an infringement on our rights?

[Arkane]

Another forum I frequent (basically a preppers forum) has a good thread discussing hunting rifles that evolved into an argument about game limits, area management, etc... Quite a few of the younger folks are decrying so called "fudd laws" (actually what they call them) stating it's an infringement on their rights to be told how much and what they can hunt. Even though most of them self-admittely don't hunt.

I called one out on it after he stated "it doesn't matter there's plenty of turkey farms, feed lots, etc.." (an odd perspective form a prepper) framing it as that was his opinion vs. centuries of conservaiton technology and practices. IMHO game laws are important. Do you all agree/disagree?

[k98k792]

I absolutely agree with you. I have seen a lot of slob behavior,that unchecked, would soon lead to almost complete eradication of game species in certain areas of my state. Human populations are constantly expanding,while habitat continuously disappears.

[Arkane]

It constantly amazes me at the hypocrisy of some people. One guy from out west who has never hunted a day in his life stated that completely eradicating white tails wouldn't be a bad thing. When I countered with "would it be ok to let the Japanese whale an entire species out of existence? Or the Russians completely eradicate seals?" then all of a sudden it was shock and awe.

I chalk it up to folks that never exercised the right trying to regulate rights.

[jbruney]

I am in total agreement because unchecked hunting shall send all game species to the same place as passenger pigeons, dodo's, where the buffalo no longer roam almost went, and myriad other species. Accepting limitations(closed seasons, bag limits, game husbandry, etc.) ensures we'll still have game to hunt in the future, as well as for those that come after us being able to enjoy the sport.

[Buckshot]

I completely agree. There were no deer where I grew up and very few down here years ago due to the lack of proper game management. There are plenty now in both places for all us hunters to enjoy.
It only happened after the need for proper game management became evident because game was pretty much being wiped out in many areas.

[Arkane]

I think I may have a little bit different perspective on the logic behind game laws. I remember all too well my grandparents stories of during the depression when the only meat they could afford was through hunting and how they even traded game for other staples. My grandfather also was adamant that I understood the decade it took for the local deer population to recover afterwards. Hell even nowadays we have the community chest where we take meat we're not going to store and it goes to needy families.

I hunt for a little game (usually my first deer fills the space in our freezer) and after that I may get one more for the community chest. Any other tickets I have go unused because I consider it a waste or resources to kill something I'm not going to eat.

[mitchstoner]

Elk were completely hunted out of Arkansas, turkey and bear nearly so. Deer were very scarce in many areas. There were no limits on how much game you could take when this happened. Then laws were passed to regulate what seasons you could hunt (to protect reproduction) and limits on how many, what sex etc. Deer and turkey rebounded over the next 75 years. Bear were reintroduced in some areas, rebounded in areas where a few remained. Elk were reintroduced from Colorado to the Buffalo National River area, where they are thriving even though the area is limited.

Now it is fairly easy to find deer and turkey to hunt, bear if you want to spend time going where they are found. Elk hunting is allowed in very limited numbers through an annual drawing for a tag. All of us, hunters or not, have many opportunities to observe and photograph wildlife that once was gone or rare. We are all benefiting from limits and seasons, not being deprived of our so-called personal freedoms.

To me, one of the principles of freedom is that we limit our own freedom in many ways so as not to tread on the toes of others' freedoms. I limit the deer I take so some are available for other hunters, and some remain to reproduce the next generation. But I guess in a society marked by selfishness, too many only want what they want and "screw everyone else."

sigh...

[drine]

Man I wouldn't even argue with someone that ignorant. As gun-loving as we are here, tell me NO laws would be better. Funner for some, YES, but we have to have some control. There has to be some regulation for everything because we can't seem to control ourselves.

[Norton]

They don't know what they are talking about. When I was a teenager you never saw a turkey, now they are plentifull. My dad and uncle said in the 40s deer were somewhat rare in of Virginia. The same with types of fish. Game management is common sense, it's what conservatives do.. We conserve, we don't waste. If they don't understand why there are game limits, they have little knowlege of hunting.

[tump]

i agree with game management and bag limits, but what i don't believe in is licensing, it has gotten way out of hand. in these difficult times a man can't go shoot a duck , rabbit, deer, or even go catch a darn fish to feed his family, without dropping some coin to do it. and that my friends is a crying shame.

[Arkane]

i agree with game management and bag limits, but what i don't believe in is licensing, it has gotten way out of hand. in these difficult times a man can't go shoot a duck , rabbit, deer, or even go catch a darn fish to feed his family, without dropping some coin to do it. and that my friends is a crying shame.

I used to feel the same way (especially when paying out of state fees) but I came to the realization that fee goes to help pay for the studies and efforts like repopulation. I paid $25 for my Arkansas one and it entitles the holder to hunt all game species using modern gun, muzzleloader or archery, and to take a total bag limit of deer. Six deer tags and two turkey tags are included with this license. For what it pays back in return I can't complain.

[Windy]

Similar to Norton, my father grew up post depression era in the mountains of Kentucky. Times were very tough and any animals that were killed, were killed for food( I am talking things like squirrels, possums and groundhogs were caught and ate to supplement the pigs, chickens and garden produce). The deer and turkey population was pretty much decimated before he was born in 42. Fast forward to today and he has deer running through his yard just about every night with the occasional Elk and bear. This could not have been possible without a conservation plan introduced by the state to relocate and maintain herd populations a couple decades ago.

The limits set forth by the state is so that populations can be kept at safe levels for the game... I would argue those tag limits protect your rights to even hunt.

[jfowl31]

As a responsible hunter who eats everything I shoot, I don't like the limits or licensing. Venison has completely replaced beef in my house and I shoot, skin, quarter, debone, process, package, store, and eat everything in house. Unfortunately, I understand that not everyone is as responsible as I am and therefore see the need for some regulations. I don't trophy hunt or save deer for anyone else or shoot deer for anyone else. I shoot my Max in tags and use it all.

In fact the grill is warming up right now for some Jamaican jerk sausage, some jalepeno cheese sausage, and some Bacon wrapped chopped steaks from this years kills.

[Bad Monkey]

Now it is fairly easy to find deer and turkey to hunt, bear if you want to spend time going where they are found. Elk hunting is allowed in very limited numbers through an annual drawing for a tag. All of us, hunters or not, have many opportunities to observe and photograph wildlife that once was gone or rare. We are all benefiting from limits and seasons, not being deprived of our so-called personal freedoms.





I was shocked when I found out there use to be 7 or so species of Elk in the U.S. Now there are 2 or 3.

I'm all for game limits at State level, based on science, not the emotion animal rights groups use. Don't really want the feds getting in on it that would make it to messy.

[Arkane]

I was shocked when I found out there use to be 7 or so species of Elk in the U.S. Now there are 2 or 3.

I'm all for game limits at State level, based on science, not the emotion animal rights groups use. Don't really want the feds getting in on it that would make it to messy.

Another hunter came out pretty hard in the argument - a guy from Wisconsin. He had a lot of great facts about their conservation progam which led me to look at the one in my state (Arkansas). I was actually suprised that it was so well organized with the surveys and data going all the way back to 1915 including things like aerial surveys, etc.. If my $25 is paying for that I have no gripes about it.

[Norton]

Virginia sends me a survey card when I check a turkey asking many questions about how many turkeys I observed etc.
They also send me surveys asking about red Squirells.. I.e do I know where they are and if so how many did you see?
This is one of the few goverment agencys that works they way it was intended.. They want animals out there for us to hunt, so they don't them all shot fished out, gigged in one season.

[Wertik]

Alaska has the right idea as far as conservation. I have never agreed with trophy only hunting. If you are not gonna eat it, I don't think you should hunt it. Everything I hunt, I eat. Even the wild hogs here in Georgia that are out of control we make sure get eaten. If I don't have room in the deep freezer, we give the meat to a needy family. I don't give meat to shelters here because the so called nonprofit groups mooch of the profits they make from the donations they get. I even see people who have really good jobs, that eat out all the time going to the James Brown turkey give away every year that is supposed to be for needy families.
Oh, I have the same set of antlers from a deer I shot almost 30 years ago to rattle with because I don't buy plastic made Chinese ones.

[pidaster]

I don't think I should have to buy a license or follow state game laws when hunting on my private property. If you are hunting on somebody else's land, leasing, or public land then you should follow laws and pay for a license.
I'd much rather take a few deer throughout the year as I need them instead of trying to cram in my hunts in two weeks. We monitor our herd throughout the year. I've killed several cull deer that weren't actually legal to shoot buy why should I care? It's my land.
I process all my meat myself and freeze it. I ate deer sausage dogs for dinner tonight and I've eaten deer meat for so long that beef is pure fatty to me and I don't eat much store purchased pork. I can't even eat pork sausage.

[Perro Del Diablo]

in my state, there is a lottery for hunting game animals. It might take you 15 years to draw a mule deer tag, and after you finally win the tag, you get 4 weeks to make it happen, and if you come back empty handed, or take one its a 10 year mandatory wait before you are eligible for another

elk is a once in a lifetime hunt here. I know a guy who has applied for one every single year for over 30 years and has never won an elk tag

I'm not certain that i agree with that. I do agree with protecting game animals, because without it, there would be no game, but the LONG wait to win a mule deer tag, and 4 weeks to make it happen with a mandatory 10 year ineligibility after that SUCKS

[RandyCOG3]

To me, this is a rare instance of those that are taxing ammo and charging license fees are actually ON our side. They *want* us out in the woods. Here in FL, we have Wildlife Management Areas, and somebody has to pay to maintain/improve them as well as having humans there to monitor the animals and hunters. Somebody has to pay to administer things, might as well be those that benefit the most. Obviously, nobody would want a dime of a license fee to go for beach restoration, or community tennis courts, but I don't think that's the case.
These men and women, that we are paying for, are who determines the bag limit on a given species, when to open and close seasons, etc... and, yes, there *has to be* limits, excepting in the case of something like wild hog populations going nuts.

RandyCOG3

[Bad Monkey]

Another hunter came out pretty hard in the argument - a guy from Wisconsin. He had a lot of great facts about their conservation program which led me to look at the one in my state (Arkansas). I was actually surprised that it was so well organized with the surveys and data going all the way back to 1915 including things like aerial surveys, etc.. If my $25 is paying for that I have no gripes about it.

I've looked into some of Michigan DNR's conservation programs and studies. I like how detailed and in depth it gets. They also send my wife and I questionnaires every year asking what we saw and how much while out hunting. The DNR did a study a few years ago on morning dove and tried to open up a hunt for them. Based off of conservation science. They got sued, and it went to a ballot initiativeve. In the end we here have to go to Ohio or Indiana after morning doves migrate there from here to hunt them. Which makes no sense to me if, as the DNR said it would not affect the population.


I don't think I should have to buy a license or follow state game laws when hunting on my private property. If you are hunting on somebody else's land, leasing, or public land then you should follow laws and pay for a license.
I'd much rather take a few deer throughout the year as I need them instead of trying to cram in my hunts in two weeks. We monitor our herd throughout the year. I've killed several cull deer that weren't actually legal to shoot buy why should I care? It's my land.
I process all my meat myself and freeze it. I ate deer sausage dogs for dinner tonight and I've eaten deer meat for so long that beef is pure fatty to me and I don't eat much store purchased pork. I can't even eat pork sausage.

The issue I see with no tags on your own land, is that wild life doesn't respect property lines. It wouldn't take a lot of people just going for the sack of it, or just not carring to desemate wild life populations. I know here in Michigan as a private land owner, you could get a block tag. There are some restriction on it and I don't know all of them. What I understand on them is you have to have at least 100 acers of farm land and show crop loss due to wild life and the DNR will issue them. I don't know if they say how many deer or other animals you can take in a year with them or not.

[Default]

I agree, game laws are very important. I dont like many game laws, mainly the ones that suround fishing/shellfish etc but if I had my way those animals wont exist for future generations.

Side note: IMO there will always be a balance in the ecosystem. If we influence the ecosystem too much we may not like the "new" balance. Theres a few very good shows maybe on Discovery or Nat Geo that show how ecosystems have changed with the elimination of wolves and how it directly caused increased erosion in certain rivers. Would suck if the ecosystem was rebalanced and your house flooded. Would also suck if the ecosystem was rebalanced and the "new" balance included shit tons of rats and mice spreading Hanta virus to our families and children. The big picture includes some things that most people cant predict and wont like. I dont have a problem with killing things, but at the same time I respect life.

[pidaster]

The issue I see with no tags on your own land, is that wild life doesn't respect property lines. It wouldn't take a lot of people just going for the sack of it, or just not carring to desemate wild life populations.

Most of the land owners I know that hunt are conservationist. It's the leased land people and hunting clubs that do the damage. That's why there should always be laws protecting game for non-private property hunters.

[Buckshot]

Most of the land owners I know that hunt are conservationist. It's the leased land people and hunting clubs that do the damage. That's why there should always be laws protecting game for non-private property hunters.

1+ (I am a land owner, a conservationist, and also respect the fact game wander over a wide area and are not my property to do with as I choose)