Forword Assist

[Otis61]

So I dont understand the purpose, or the advantage of a forward assist. I saw that ohio rapidfire had some assemblys for HK21 and PSG1, and so you could probly get it to fit a cetme. Does anyone have any thoughts on this?

[pfdr22]

If you are referring to the forward assist as seen on the M16/AR15 series rifles, its intention is to allow you to fully seat the bolt portion of the bolt carrier group into the chamber if it does not lock up on its own when you depress the bolt release catch or pull the charging handle to the rear and then release it. The opposite end of the button (A2) or the teardrop (A1) on the right side of the upper reciever protrudes into the reciever and pushes on the ridges you see on the right side of the bolt carrier group.
The original rifles which the Air Force bought and some early ones the Army bought didn't have this feature These receivers, at least in some cases, were actually marked AR15. (I'm reaching way back now to when I initially came into the Army and when I was in VIet Nam.) When the weapon went through its first set of improvements as part of its adaption the forward assist was added because fouled chambers etc. caused the above problem.
In my opinion, this is about as useless as tits on a boar hog. If the buffer/recoil spring doesn't seat the bolt fully, it ain't gonna go as a result of you striking it with your hand. I've never been able to get it to work if he bolt didn't lock up on its own. The Army used to teach you to strike the forward assist after loading a magazine into the weapon. Basically, an exercise in futility. Just my opinion but I've carried, shot, and built these things (ARs) for over thirty five years. I'll let a REALLY smart guy address how viable they are for CETMEs.

[JayGeeWentWorth]

I have read from multiple sources that the forward assist devices on the PSG-1 and MSG-90 are there to greatly reduce the noise of the closing bolt.

[okie shooter]

The swedish variant, ak4 has a thumb shaped depression for foward assist, as stated above to lessen the noise of either closeing a bolt, or allowing the operator to close a bolt that failed to close.

[robocop10mm]

I was taught in Colt armorers school the forward assist is just that an assist. your palm should NEVER impact this part. Think of it as a thumb button. That is the most pressure that should be put on the button. It was explained the purpose was to fully close the bolt after a chamber check or after cracking open the chamber to release water that may have gotten in.

[Patria Povo]

The Norwegian G3's had a weird thumb-nail forward assist. Not a totally worthless feature, IMO, for some weapons - but I can't imagine it being much use with a roller-locking bolt.

[jfowl31]

forward assist is something that I think the Cetme/HK design lacks more than just about anything else... other than a last round bolt hold open.

chamber checking is the main use that Ive wanted it for. short of smacking the muzzle on the carpet, I havent found a good way to get the bolt to seat after checking the chamber for a round. forward assist would be a REALLY nice addition to a sniper rifle. Thats why the PSG-1 has it. you can chamber a round silently instead of using the loud HK slap method.

Last round bolt hold would be my first improvement if I had the means though. I hate the "click". and I hate having to reach all the way up to the front of the rifle to load a round. This is one of the few places that I would give the M16 an advantage over the G3 design.

[Otis61]

forward assist is something that I think the Cetme/HK design lacks more than just about anything else... other than a last round bolt hold open.

chamber checking is the main use that Ive wanted it for. short of smacking the muzzle on the carpet, I havent found a good way to get the bolt to seat after checking the chamber for a round. forward assist would be a REALLY nice addition to a sniper rifle. Thats why the PSG-1 has it. you can chamber a round silently instead of using the loud HK slap method.

Last round bolt hold would be my first improvement if I had the means though. I hate the "click". and I hate having to reach all the way up to the front of the rifle to load a round. This is one of the few places that I would give the M16 an advantage over the G3 design.

What I usually do is push on the bolt assembly through the extractor hole on the side of the reciever. That works for me.

[Otis61]

So I've been thinking about building a CETME "target" rifle. I was wondering if anyone knew how they were attached, and if someone had pictures. Maybe pictures of thier own PSG!.

[nalioth]

So I've been thinking about building a CETME "target" rifle. I was wondering if anyone knew how they were attached, and if someone had pictures. Maybe pictures of thier own PSG!.
I believe they were milled directly into the bolt carrier.

[jfowl31]

to use the PSG-1 forward assist, I believe you have to use the PSG-1 bolt carrier... so you can't put it in a Cetme. And I don't think you even want to know the price tag on PSG-1 parts.

[jfowl31]

if you got some serious skillz, I would imagine you could scab on an AR-15 forward assist and mill grooves into the bolt carrier. With enough measurements and some good welding skills, it seems theoretically possible.

[nalioth]

I don't think you have to 'scab' anything on to the rifle. Here is a link to a pic of the Swedish AK 4 (which has a forward assist) http://www.sturmgewehr.com/bhinton/Heckler_Koch/HK_ManualAK4_Swedish2.jpg and to pics of the PSG-1: http://world.guns.ru/sniper/sn14-e.htm

I don't see anything 'scabbed' onto either.

http://www.hkspecialist.net/images/car27.jpg

http://www.hkspecialist.net/images/car29.jpg

You use your thumb on the milled serrations as a 'forward assist'.

[The Great 308]

So I've been thinking about building a CETME "target" rifle. I was wondering if anyone knew how they were attached, and if someone had pictures. Maybe pictures of their own PSG!.

I am building a MSG90 clone and the forward assist is one of the features I am leaving off. RTDS sells a copy of the housing and forward assist button but they are expensive at least $350. Gordon Miller at HK specialist sells the actual HK parts $575 for the housing and $165 for the forward assist button. I think when I looked in to it it was going to cost around $500 in parts for a feature that I would probably almost never use.

As far as attachment the forward assist is welded on the receiver just behind the ejection port. You could use the forward assist on a Cetme but you would have to make small cuts in the right side of the bolt carrier like the ones in an MSG90/PSG1 bolt carrier for the forward assist to catch.

IMHO this is really an unnecessary feature. If you could get the parts for around $200.00 and could do the welding your self it would be a nice feature but with prices the way they are for parts and labor I would not add one unless you were building an exact clone.

Good luck on your build!!:thumbup:

[nalioth]

Well, my shoes taste good.

Thanks for the good pictures, Great 308 :thumbup:

[The Great 308]

Well, my shoes taste good.

Thanks for the good pictures, Great 308 :thumbup:

LOL:lolgreen:. I was actually writing my post while you wrote yours you just responded much quicker. I have done a lot of research on this since I have been planning this build for about four years. It really takes a lot of time and money to track down all of the parts. As I said I am not going to do an exact clone I just want to build a very accurate HK90 series rifle. :sniper:

:thumbup:

[jfowl31]

Nalioth, I wasn't talking about scabbing with the milled cuts on the bolt carrier. The "scabbing" I was referring to was to weld on an AR-15/M16 forward assist since the HK series forward assist assemblies are so expensive. The M16 style assist would also act as a port buffer and more than likely save some case life as well. Its much cheaper to buy an AR upper receiver with forward assist and cut it to fit if someone is just looking to have the feature and doesn't necessarily want the original expensive parts.

You could use your thumb, but its not quite as effective as having the push button.

Personally, I think a forward assist would be a great addition, because I like to chamber check my rifles. YMMV, and I get by without it, but if it were cheaper to add on, I'd probably do it. I'd most certainly add a bolt hold open before a forward assist if that were an option.

[Patria Povo]

. I'd most certainly add a bolt hold open before a forward assist if that were an option.

Now THAT is something I would be interested in!

[jfowl31]

on the bolt hold open

It really doesn't seem like it would be all that hard to engineer something like the AR-15. Really and truly, I don't even like the design of the M16, but some of the little features are just so simple that it makes the rifle very functional and easy to operate.

I think the only problem would be figuring out how to make the bolt hold work with the magazines as they don't have that extension in the rear like an AR mag. Im thinking it would have to be something like many pistol mags where the hold open lever is activated by the front of the follower instead of the rear.

Ahhhhh the things I would do if I had the tools, time, and money..... the things I would do..........

[The Great 308]

On the bolt hold open, I have seen this topic brought up on other boards several times over the years. I think the main issue is that you would have to stop the bolt carrier at exactly the right moment. The bolt carrier is so heavy and a lot of inertia is involved. If you did not stop it at exactly the rear most position the rifle would tear itself apart due to the weight.

The next issue is would there be enough force to close the bolt fully when a new mag was inserted. In other words if the catch was not far enough back then you would not get the full HK slap to chamber the first round of the next mag properly.

Several Hk builders have worked on this idea and no one has come up with a reliable system yet. I agree that it would be a very desirable feature and I think many people would want the feature if someone did come up with a feasible way to do it. IMHO I am not sure if it would ever be possible to make a reliable and safe bolt hold open device on a rifle with a sheet metal receiver and such a heavy bolt carrier.

[okie shooter]

I guess if you need foward assist, there always is the indention in the bolt that with some sort of pointed object(case with bullet has been mentioned) should work. The reason for the fa on a target gun I imagine is so the shooter can keep the sight picture, but still close a partally opened or unlocked bolt if he is trained on its use.

On the m-16 the thought was to be able to close a tough to close round, that just needs slight assist, without having to eject the round and try again(if there was a light fowling or such keeping the first round out, then the second wouldnt work either, thus the fa gives you use of the weapon back in that case)

[jfowl31]

good point on the weight of bolt/carrier... never thought of that. That'd be a lot of force on the walls of the receiver and the little pice to hold open the bolt.