M1941 Johnson

[Smokehouse69]

They are high dollar collectables but the question is are they worth it? Has anyone ever fired one?

[M1 Tanker]

Perro has one and he loves it. I'm sure we can convince him to post pics.

[okie shooter]

They aint making no more, I would love to get one.

[GreenWolf]

My local gunshop just sold a couple of these this week. One went for $4610 and the other went for $3320.

[Darkwatch]

I wish I had that kinda cash my wife would let me spend on gun...course we'd need a bigger house:catfight:

[Rampager]

Those Johnson's are really cool. I'd love to have one. Prices are high, but you'd never loose money on it, unlike many things in life.

Vented handgaurd and 30-06...what more could you ask for?:icon_mrgreen:

Doesn't the Johnson load from the side and have a revolving magazine? How many rounds do they hold? Pics anyone???

[Longhorn789]

They are high dollar collectables but the question is are they worth it? Has anyone ever fired one?

I have a 1972 johnson...(heh heh heh heh):icon_mrgreen:

I fire it all the time...(heh heh heh heh):icon_mrgreen:

I find it very handy...(heh heh heh heh hee hee hee):icon_mrgreen:

:oops:

:ziped:

sorry............:tomato:

[Rampager]

:ignore:

[97th Signalman]

My gunsmith is restoring two Butchered/Sporterized Johnsons. He found enough parts to replace everything that got altered or replaced then the Johnsons were abused. He plans to keep and has promised to let me fire it. Then I can say yes to the question above.

[Smokehouse69]

I have a 1972 johnson...(heh heh heh heh):icon_mrgreen:

I fire it all the time...(heh heh heh heh):icon_mrgreen:

I find it very handy...(heh heh heh heh hee hee hee):icon_mrgreen:

:oops:

:ziped:

sorry............:tomato:

I fire it all the time..... :jerkoff: You funny...
I bet I've fired my 1951 Johnson more than you've fired your 72! :toothless:

[Longhorn789]

I fire it all the time..... :jerkoff: You funny...
I bet I've fired my 1951 Johnson more than you've fired your 72! :toothless:


Yeah, I'd say you got me "beat"......... :)

[MasterGunner]

Well, guys,
I have had two Johnson rifles over the years. They are fun to shoot, but there are problems with parts.

Many Johnsons from the former Dutch East Indies (aka Indonesia) were reimported by an outfit called Winfield Arms in the early 1950's. Winfield proceeded to "sporterize" them and offered them in calibers 7mm Mauser, .243 Win, .270 Win, .308 Win, and .30-06 Springfield. A custom Monte Carlo butt stock with rubber recoil pad was fitted. Many of the receivers were tapped for scopes. Apparently, Winfield wasn't smart enough to sell the G.I. parts to Numrich (Gun Parts), and scrapped them. This is one reason why parts are hard to come by. Also, as compared to the M1 Garand with production in the millions, the tens of thousands Johnsons are a drop in the bucket.

As the military sporter craze faded in the 1960's and 1970's, people wanted to restore these rare rifles to their prior military configuration and this further depleted the surplus parts market.

The Johnson has a major weakness that I found out the hard way: the two special retaining pin that (1) hold the butt stock to the receiver and (2) the magazine to the receiver. These pins have a stamped, v-notched end that snaps into a notch in the receiver or a clip on the front forearm. If you lose the rear one, the whole rifle will self-disassemble. The front one is an inconvenience, but the rifle won't fall apart.

In compariston to the M1 Garand, the Johnson rear sight is flimsy. On one of my rifles, the aperture was loose and had to be brazed. Johnsons do break firing pins and these may be difficult to find.

Many "sporterized" Johnsons deleted the bolt catch that holds the bolt open on the last shot. You may or may not have trouble locating one if yours is missing. The front pin that attaches the magazine also provides a hinge point for the bolt catch.

Johnsons are recoil operated. That means that the barrel has to move back in recoil for the bolt to unlock. The barrel moves within the ventilated barrel jacket of the rifle (much the same as the M1919A4 .30 BMG). The barrel jacket is very robust, but it can be damaged and prevent the barrel from moving. This is a point to check. The good point is the Johnson has a quick-change barrel.

If it comes to an M1 Garand or a Johnson, the shooter is better off with the Garand for spare parts availability. The Johnson is much more expensive to own and maintain. It is fun to shoot, but you should know that certain parts are a real problem. The retaining pins can put the rifle out of action if lost.

:g3:

[Norton]

Has anyone ever fired one?

I fired about 20 rounds from a former USMC M 41 back in the 1980s.
It had the serial number and USMC written in electropen on the reciever and barrel. I don't know if that part was real or a fake made from a Dutch export in the 50s (that is an entire story in itself). But it was interesting to shoot. Very little recoil for a 30 06, yet the rifle was light, or felt light. The recoiling barrel took some time to get used to and it made alot of mechanical sounds as it cycled. It gave me around 4 inch groups at 100 yard almost all were stringers. It seemed to me the front sight was a thin blade type. I did not load it as the dude who it belong to watched over it like a mother hen. He did the loading,but it seemed as fast as a M1 when he did it. It seemed like a good rifle, but I think even Mel Johnson himself admited the Garand was a better combat weapon. He said we should not put all our eggs in one basket.
I read somewhere the OSS (latter the CIA) took a batch and on a TV program I saw anti -Castro Cubans with them at the Bay of pigs invasion of 1961. Then on a second program I saw a Red toting a Johnson in the 1965 invasion of the Dominican Republic. I wondered what Castro did with those rifles, maybe he gave them to his stooges in that conflict. Maybe when El Hefe dies we will get a flood of cool 1950s cars, guns and motorcycles from Cuba

[SteelCore]

Oh, man! I knew this would happen again...

anybody got a Magic Johnson? and is a "Sporterized" Johnson just a eupehmism for "Circumcised?" :)

[Perro]

i have a real M1941 johnson, and i love it very much.
it is a cool weapon, and given its rarity, id say worth every penny
less than 30,000 were ever made. lots destroyed in a fire, and most left in the dutch east indies. they are VERY rare - even more rare unsporterized.

if you got the jack, i cant think of a better USGI WW2 semi auto to purchase - if anything else for the rarity - most people have never even heard of a JSAR

[rep30cal]

Perro, I knew deep down you really like the AR's, you keep popping
up different versions all the time. :lol3:

[weasel_master]

I was in Cabelas down in Richfield Wisconsin yesterday. They've got a nice looking Johnson there with the bayo and hanger. First time I've ever seen one myself. They are cool looking for sure.

[Perro]

Perro, I knew deep down you really like the AR's, you keep popping
up different versions all the time. :lol3:

i do love ARs - i have a few VERY nice ones.

some day ill photo all of my AR rifles, and then ill be able to flood charlies "lets see your AR" threads with many ARs worthy of ownership :)

[Perro]

the IRONY of comparing a JSAR to an AR15 is unknown by anyone who has really studied a johnson.

many people think that the AR15s bolt is of stoner design - EHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!
it is from the Johnson rifle. I was always under the impression that stoner invented the rotating bolt used in the AR15 until i bought my johnson. I was floored to find out that Stoner copied Melvin Johnsons bolt design (note, not carrier, but bolt)
i have always heard the AR15 bolt referred to as the "stoner bolt" so i had no reason to doubt that until i bought the Johnson. After buying the johnson, it really sunk home to me just how LITTLE the AR15 had of its own design - after you look hard at an AR15, damn near every part of the thing is borrowed from something else, and people always claim how revolutionary the AR15 was for its time, but every single thing it had on it was already used in other firearms.

so - by making the comparison of me calling the JSAR an AR is kind of ironic cause the AR copied the JSAR bolt :)

[Norton]

the IRONY of comparing a JSAR to an AR15 is unknown by anyone who has really studied a johnson.

many people think that the AR15s bolt is of stoner design - EHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!
it is from the Johnson rifle. I was always under the impression that stoner invented the rotating bolt used in the AR15 until i bought my johnson. I was floored to find out that Stoner copied Melvin Johnsons bolt design (note, not carrier, but bolt)
i

so - by making the comparison of me calling the JSAR an AR is kind of ironic cause the AR copied the JSAR bolt :)

I did not know that.. Did Eugene Stoner ever mention the Johnson in his writings?

[Perro]

never read any of stoners writings

check this page out
http://www.johnsonautomatics.com/internal.htm

[Norton]

I saw a TV interview with him were he defended the AR . He said the Army asked him to develop the lightest possible weapon and that is what he gave them. He said if I had been asked to make the most reliable weapon possible I could have done that.. But that's not what they wanted. I just wondered if he ever wrote a book, or was he in the USMC and was familier with the Johnson on some level.
I wonder what Mel Johnson thought about the bolts being simular.

On the Johnson in combat, I always wondered how it really did.. It was in sustained heavy combat in a very harsh climate for an auto rifle. Add to that few cleaning supplies and super primitive conditons even in the rear areas. With that said, if it was no good I think we would know it.. Like with the Reising's record at Guadaulcanal. From what I have read the feedback from Marines was mostly positive.. But they said they felt the Garand was a better combat weapon. They said Johnson was a welcome improvement over the 03 at Guadualcanal with it's firepower and easy reloading. But rearmed with M1 when the supply of Garands allowed it. But thats all I have ever been able to find on it's combat record. Did the Marines use them in any other island campaigns ? What did the Marines do with the Johnsons taken back from the Parachute Regiment and the Raiders? I do know the Army used a handfull of the Johnson LMGs in Italy. They gave it high marks. I read the OSS had a small batch that they may have used in Europe. If you look on the net there are very few photos of it in a combat setting.

[Genocide]

the IRONY of comparing a JSAR to an AR15 is unknown by anyone who has really studied a johnson.

many people think that the AR15s bolt is of stoner design - EHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!
it is from the Johnson rifle. I was always under the impression that stoner invented the rotating bolt used in the AR15 until i bought my johnson. I was floored to find out that Stoner copied Melvin Johnsons bolt design (note, not carrier, but bolt)
i have always heard the AR15 bolt referred to as the "stoner bolt" so i had no reason to doubt that until i bought the Johnson. After buying the johnson, it really sunk home to me just how LITTLE the AR15 had of its own design - after you look hard at an AR15, damn near every part of the thing is borrowed from something else, and people always claim how revolutionary the AR15 was for its time, but every single thing it had on it was already used in other firearms.

so - by making the comparison of me calling the JSAR an AR is kind of ironic cause the AR copied the JSAR bolt :)

Wow, thats some great information; never knew the stoner copied Johnson. thank you for sharing Perro!

[rep30cal]

Good info Perro, also maybe you will remember, but wasn't there a
rotating bolt shotgun. A Winchester maybe or even an older Stevens.