922r compliance and the CETME/HK91

[rustypirate]

According to:
http://frwebgate3.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/waisgate.cgi?WAISdocID=41387427+1+0+0&WAISaction=retrieve

[Code of Federal Regulations]
[Title 27, Volume 2]
[Revised as of April 1, 2003]
From the U.S. Government Printing Office via GPO Access
[CITE: 27CFR478]

[Page 101-169]

TITLE 27--ALCOHOL, TOBACCO PRODUCTS AND FIREARMS

CHAPTER II--BUREAU OF ALCOHOL, TOBACCO, FIREARMS, AND EXPLOSIVES,
DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE

PART 478--COMMERCE IN FIREARMS AND AMMUNITION

on page 119....

[T.D. ATF-270, 53 FR 10494, Mar. 31, 1988]

Sec. 478.39 Assembly of semiautomatic rifles or shotguns.

(a) No person shall assemble a semiautomatic rifle or any shotgun
using more than 10 of the imported parts listed in paragraph (c) of this
section if the assembled firearm is prohibited from importation under
section 925(d)(3) as not being particularly suitable for or readily
adaptable to sporting purposes.
(b) The provisions of this section shall not apply to:
(1) The assembly of such rifle or shotgun for sale or distribution
by a licensed manufacturer to the United States or any department or
agency thereof or to any State or any department, agency, or political
subdivision thereof; or
(2) The assembly of such rifle or shotgun for the purposes of
testing or experimentation authorized by the Director under the
provisions of Sec. 478.151; or
(3) The repair of any rifle or shotgun which had been imported into
or assembled in the United States prior to November 30, 1990, or the
replacement of any part of such firearm.
(c) For purposes of this section, the term imported parts are:
(1) Frames, receivers, receiver castings, forgings or stampings
(2) Barrels
(3) Barrel extensions
(4) Mounting blocks (trunions)
(5) Muzzle attachments
(6) Bolts
(7) Bolt carriers
(8) Operating rods
(9) Gas pistons
(10) Trigger housings
(11) Triggers
(12) Hammers
(13) Sears
(14) Disconnectors
(15) Buttstocks
(16) Pistol grips
(17) Forearms, handguards
(18) Magazine bodies
(19) Followers
(20) Floorplates

What this means is that your rifle
!!CANNOT HAVE MORE THAN 10 IMPORTED PARTS ON THAT LIST!!

The parts on the list pertaining to the CETME or HK91 style of rifle are as follows:
(1) Frames, receivers, receiver castings, forgings or stampings
(2) Barrels
(4) Mounting blocks (trunions)
(5) Muzzle attachments (flash hiders or muzzle breaks)
(6) Bolts
(7) Bolt carriers
(8) Operating rods (charging handle)
(10) Trigger housings (FCG cage)
(11) Triggers
(12) Hammers
(13) Sears
(15) Buttstocks
(16) Pistol grips
(17) Forearms, handguards
(18) Magazine bodies
(19) Followers
(20) Floorplates

That makes 17 compliance parts. If you cannot have more that 10 IMPORTED parts in your rifle, then you must replace 7 of the above parts with US made replacements. (6 replacement parts if your barrel was cut and no muzzle attachment was added)

Most rifles from Century at a minimum have US made Muzzle breaks, Receivers, Charging handles, Pistol Grips and Hammers. This accounts for 5 of the compliance parts.

In order to reach the required limit of 10 imported parts Century replaced other rifle parts as well.

If the rifle ORIGINALLY came with wood handguards and buttstocks, then the following US made parts should be installed:
Frames, receivers, receiver castings, forgings or stampings
Muzzle attachments (flash hiders or muzzle breaks)
Operating rods (charging handle)
Triggers
Hammers
Sears
Pistol grips

If your rifle came with the crappy black plastic buttstock and handguard, then these US made parts were installed:
Frames, receivers, receiver castings, forgings or stampings
Muzzle attachments (flash hiders or muzzle breaks)
Operating rods (charging handle)
Hammers
Pistol grips
Buttstocks
Forearms, handguards

On some of the latest CETME rifles from Century, (Limited Edition)the wood furniture was kept, and the stock Flash hider was used as well. These rifles were shipped with magazines containing US made followers or floorplates, and only magazines with US compliance parts in them can legally be used with these rifles without replacing something else on the list with a US made part.
Frames, receivers, receiver castings, forgings or stampings
Operating rods (charging handle)
Triggers
Hammers
Sears
Pistol grips
Magazine Followers or Floorplates

Some Century rifles were shipped with US made replacement barrels and not every configuration is listed here.

Following will be a post with photos to help identify if your parts are US made or imported.

[drhall762]

I keep reading and this build gets easier to understand.

Thanks a bunch,
Dave :sniper:

[leonidas]

Just giving the thread a little boost. I am wanting to thread my barrel and put on what appears to be CETME surplus flash hider on my weapon but I need figure out which parts are or aren't US made.

CAI build with the retarded plastic buttstock and fore arm. I know it states which parts SHOULD be US made but how do I know for sure???

If you get some pictures up that would be great or know of a site which I could go to find out by pictures or markings if it is US or non-US. Thanks.

[hunter_la5]

sometimes the parts have a little "C" stamped on them, this means they are US made. My hammer, trigger, and sear/disconnector all have C's stamped on them. My charging handle does not, but it is shaped differently than the spanish one. now if i can find my damn camera...

i would recommend that you use on of SSwee's US made FH's, so you can skip the hassle of swapping out parts altogether. That's what I did. well worth the money, and they look authentic

[leonidas]

ok cool, my charging handle, hammer have it, i am pretty sure my trigger says it somewhere since it is an exact color match to hammer. Not sure what an american made barrel is marked either. Mine has RK 1 and 76 with something else on it but i can't make it out due to the coating.

Thanks for the help, at least i know some stuff are US.

[jfowl31]

If its a Century gun, its compliant from the factory until somebody modifies something (usually stocks or FH)

[CuttyLT]

I have a question. Just to play devi's advocate I guess, but when does the parts compliance become a problem? When you want to sell the firearm?

[okie shooter]

I have a question. Just to play devi's advocate I guess, but when does the parts compliance become a problem? When you want to sell the firearm?

The compliance issue, really is only in play when you piss some one off, and they are looking to nail you, otherwise its like speeding when you dont get caught. I have seen rifles out of compliance at gun shows on tables in one form or another, dealers rarely know anything about compliance or really care. Thus its up to you to keep your rifle in the "right" by meeting compliance.

Why risk any of the results of a rifle out of compliance when its so easy to keep one in compliance.

[CuttyLT]

Agreed, I was just curious if maybe it was different elsewhere in the country as far as people "taking notice"

[Lon Moer]

Just giving the thread a little boost. I am wanting to thread my barrel and put on what appears to be CETME surplus flash hider on my weapon but I need figure out which parts are or aren't US made.

CAI build with the retarded plastic buttstock and fore arm. I know it states which parts SHOULD be US made but how do I know for sure???

If you get some pictures up that would be great or know of a site which I could go to find out by pictures or markings if it is US or non-US. Thanks.
You just need to use a US flash hider. :wink:

- Sswee (http://www.militaryfirearm.com/Forum/showthread.php?t=71) on the Marketplace
- IGF (http://investmentgradefirearms.com/igfproducts.htm)

[Aodhfin]

The compliance issue, really is only in play when you piss some one off, and they are looking to nail you, otherwise its like speeding when you dont get caught. I have seen rifles out of compliance at gun shows on tables in one form or another, dealers rarely know anything about compliance or really care. Thus its up to you to keep your rifle in the "right" by meeting compliance.

For the dealers selling out of compliance ones the letter of the law states "assembling" said firearm without compliance. If you buy one already assembled that way you are technically not breaking the law. However, good luck proving that you weren't the one that "assembled" it that way!

[rustypirate]

For the dealers selling out of compliance ones the letter of the law states "assembling" said firearm without compliance. If you buy one already assembled that way you are technically not breaking the law. However, good luck proving that you weren't the one that "assembled" it that way!

Keep in mind that magazine parts also count for compliance, so inserting a magazine into the rifle also constitutes "assembling".

[19k40ret]

this section 922r is it a law or regulation, because a regulation carries no legal force unless it is part of a law.
the atf is part of the executive branch of government and as such has no power to make laws IAW the constitution. if the executive branch has through the regulatory process, set itself up as a defacto legislative body then it is acting illegally.
I understand that most of us dont have the deep pockets to fight the government on this, but at least we can refuse to convict if ever on a jury when someone is charged with violating a regulation or any other law that is unconstitutional whether the court recognises it or not.

[Lon Moer]

/section922r.aspx (http://www.tapco.com/section922r.aspx)

[MJ11]

It seems a wounder that no body has come up with an improved charging handle along the lines of the HK21 or folding SLR pattern?

Cheers
MJ

[W.E.G.]

this section 922r is it a law or regulation, because a regulation carries no legal force unless it is part of a law.
the atf is part of the executive branch of government and as such has no power...


The US Code delegates "legislative" authority to the Attorney General (exectutive branch).

This sort of delegation happens ALL THE TIME. Just look at the USDA, the FDA, the FCC, etc., etc...

The delegation to the ATF (via the delegation to the Attorney General), as it pertains to firearms, is as follows:

18 USC 922(r)
"It shall be unlawful for any person to assemble from imported parts any semiautomatic rifle or any shotgun which is identical to any rifle or shotgun prohibited from importation under section 925(d)(3) of this chapter as not being particularly suitable for or readily adaptable to sporting purposes..."

18 USC 925(d)
The Attorney General shall authorize a firearm or ammunition to be imported or brought into the United States...if the firearm...is of a type that does not fall within the definition of a firearm as defined in section 5845(a) of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 and is generally recognized as particularly suitable for or readily adaptable to sporting purposes, excluding surplus military firearms, except in any case where the Attorney General has not authorized the importation of the firearm pursuant to this paragraph, it shall be unlawful to import any frame, receiver, or barrel of such firearm which would be prohibited if assembled; or


26 USC 5845 - Sec. 5845. Definitions
For the purpose of this chapter - (a) Firearm The term ''firearm'' means (1) a shotgun having a barrel or barrels of less than 18 inches in length; (2) a weapon made from a shotgun if such weapon as modified has an overall length of less than 26 inches or a barrel or barrels of less than 18 inches in length; (3) a rifle having a barrel or barrels of less than 16 inches in length; (4) a weapon made from a rifle if such weapon as modified has an overall length of less than 26 inches or a barrel or barrels of less than 16 inches in length; (5) any other weapon, as defined in subsection (e); (6) a machinegun; (7) any silencer (as defined in section 921 of title 18, United States Code); and (8) a destructive device.

27 CFR 478.39

Assembly of semiautomatic rifles or shotguns.

(a) No person shall assemble a semiautomatic rifle or any shotgun
using more than 10 of the imported parts listed in paragraph (c) of this
section if the assembled firearm is prohibited from importation under
section 925(d)(3) as not being particularly suitable for or readily
adaptable to sporting purposes.
(b) The provisions of this section shall not apply to:
(1) The assembly of such rifle or shotgun for sale or distribution
by a licensed manufacturer to the United States or any department or
agency thereof or to any State or any department, agency, or political
subdivision thereof; or
(2) The assembly of such rifle or shotgun for the purposes of
testing or experimentation authorized by the Director under the
provisions of Sec. 478.151; or
(3) The repair of any rifle or shotgun which had been imported into
or assembled in the United States prior to November 30, 1990, or the
replacement of any part of such firearm.
(c) For purposes of this section, the term imported parts are:
(1) Frames, receivers, receiver castings, forgings or stampings
(2) Barrels
(3) Barrel extensions
(4) Mounting blocks (trunions)
(5) Muzzle attachments
(6) Bolts
(7) Bolt carriers
(8) Operating rods
(9) Gas pistons
(10) Trigger housings
(11) Triggers
(12) Hammers
(13) Sears
(14) Disconnectors
(15) Buttstocks
(16) Pistol grips
(17) Forearms, handguards
(18) Magazine bodies
(19) Followers
(20) Floorplates

[T.D. ATF-346, 58 FR 40589, July 29, 1993]

[jfowl31]

It seems a wounder that no body has come up with an improved charging handle along the lines of the HK21 or folding SLR pattern?

Cheers
MJ

US made HK-21 charging handles are already being produced and sold in green and black. I think black market parts has some right now along with a few other sites.

[Seattlefungus]

+1 to W.E.G said...
Just a little point regarding 922r. It is a section under 18 United States Code. The code is titled as the Criminal Code and is the same body of law which covers all major felony criminal acts under federal law. It's not administrative code, it's statutory law. There is an entire separate body of administrative code. Usually under the direction and control of the given Directors of a branch, like DOJ, ATF, IRS.. etc. these usually are the rules applied to persons holding licenses, such as FFL holders, Importers, etc. These rules hold the effect of sanctions for violations. Like revocation of license for violation. Then there is the CFR. Code of Federal Regulations. These are codified regulations which are criminal. Usually misdemeanor in nature. CFR 27 is often overlooked. This gives the option of using a misdemeanor charge for the 922r violation. It states:
Title 27: Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms
§ 478.39 Assembly of semiautomatic rifles or shotguns.
(a) No person shall assemble a semiautomatic rifle or any shotgun using more than 10 of the imported parts listed in paragraph (c) of this section if the assembled firearm is prohibited from importation under section 925(d)(3) as not being particularly suitable for or readily adaptable to sporting purposes.
(b) The provisions of this section shall not apply to:
(1) The assembly of such rifle or shotgun for sale or distribution by a licensed manufacturer to the United States or any department or agency thereof or to any State or any department, agency, or political subdivision thereof; or
(2) The assembly of such rifle or shotgun for the purposes of testing or experimentation authorized by the Director under the provisions of §478.151; or
(3) The repair of any rifle or shotgun which had been imported into or assembled in the United States prior to November 30, 1990, or the replacement of any part of such firearm.
(c) For purposes of this section, the term imported parts are:
(1) Frames, receivers, receiver castings, forgings or stampings
(2) Barrels
(3) Barrel extensions
(4) Mounting blocks (trunions)
(5) Muzzle attachments
(6) Bolts
(7) Bolt carriers
(8) Operating rods
(9) Gas pistons
(10) Trigger housings
(11) Triggers
(12) Hammers
(13) Sears
(14) Disconnectors
(15) Buttstocks
(16) Pistol grips
(17) Forearms, handguards
(18) Magazine bodies
(19) Followers
(20) Floorplates
[T.D. ATF–346, 58 FR 40589, July 29, 1993]

So, it's a copy of 18, 922r. I would highly recommend that if parts are replace for a repair of a pre-1990 weapon, that it be documented as such, it is an exception to the law under this section. (That includes magazines).

We also have a unique opportunity here. Under section, which states: "(d)(3) as not being particularly suitable for or readily adaptable to sporting purposes."
I know a number of members that use the CETME for hunting. I'd say it's time to start a thread with pictures of the deer, bear and javelina the members have been taking in "Lawful sport hunting". This legitimately shows the lawful sporting purpose, as do the range target firing.

[rustypirate]

Am I an idiot, or did I not post that information along with a URL link to the actual code on the BATFE website at the beginning of this thread?

[hunter_la5]

Am I an idiot, or did I not post that information along with a URL link to the actual code on the BATFE website at the beginning of this thread?

some people never read the whole thread before posting... :rolleyes:

[rustypirate]

Maybe I should be a tyranical Admin and lock this thread DOWN!

[tanstaafl4y]

some people never read the whole thread before posting... :rolleyes:

Heck I don't even read the first post in its entirety. I read the headline, form an opinion, click the link. Press ends and post a reply.

[silverbear]

On some of the latest CETME rifles from Century, (Limited Edition)the wood furniture was kept, and the stock Flash hider was used as well. These rifles were shipped with magazines containing US made followers or floorplates, and only magazines with US compliance parts in them can legally be used with these rifles without replacing something else on the list with a US made part.
Frames, receivers, receiver castings, forgings or stampings
Operating rods (charging handle)
Triggers
Hammers
Sears
Pistol grips
Magazine Followers or Floorplates

Some Century rifles were shipped with US made replacement barrels and not every configuration is listed here.

Following will be a post with photos to help identify if your parts are US made or imported.

So if you want to use surplus g3 magazines, do need to replace 1 item or more then 1? And you're saying that that the list above is the items that must be KEPT or REPLACED?

[bladeworks123]

You need to determine how many US made parts you have now....You need 7 US made parts on your CETME to be compliant. The list that Rusty has there was the typical US made parts on the Limited edition rifles. However, since you purchased the rifle used, it's a good idea to identify what you actually have, in the event someone else changed something. If you have the original flash hider for instance, You could replace it with a US made one and then not have to worry about your magazines. Whatever combination you have to use to get to seven US Parts.

[rustypirate]

Bladeworks is correct, you need to determine which of the par4ts on the compliance list are fioreiugn made oir US made first. Then you must ensure that you have enbough US made parts to keep from having over 10 foreign made compliance parts in the rifle. For the CETME adn G# style rifles this usually means 7 US made parts.

[jfowl31]

Silverbear, you're fine using whatever mags you want on that LE Cetme. You have plenty of US stuff on it.

[silverbear]

Silverbear, you're fine using whatever mags you want on that LE Cetme. You have plenty of US stuff on it.

Thanks - do you have (or know where to find) a list of parts that are US Specific? I emailed century about it and i'll post a response if I get one.

I'd also like to replace the pistol grip with an inexpensive import wood one if possible

[jfowl31]

Thanks - do you have (or know where to find) a list of parts that are US Specific? I emailed century about it and i'll post a response if I get one.

I'd also like to replace the pistol grip with an inexpensive import wood one if possible

On the LE you have

Receiver
Barrel
Muzzle brake
Trigger
hammer
Sear
Cage
And I think the cocking handle
You're free to use whatever furniture or mags you want as they were produced and sold with foreign furniture and mags.

[silverbear]

On the LE you have

Receiver
Barrel
Muzzle brake
Trigger
hammer
Sear
Cage
And I think the cocking handle
You're free to use whatever furniture or mags you want as they were produced and sold with foreign furniture and mags.

Excellent - now to find a good deal on a wood pistol grip

[jfowl31]

Thanks - do you have (or know where to find) a list of parts that are US Specific? I emailed century about it and i'll post a response if I get one.

I'd also like to replace the pistol grip with an inexpensive import wood one if possible

Contact Jdowney here on the forum. Or find his ad here.

[silverbear]

Contact Jdowney here on the forum. Or find his ad here.

I saw his ad but for some reason my account cannot reply to that thread. No access :(.

This may be a stupid question, but what exactly does the psg-1 grip style do w/ the palm shelf. What is the benefit exactly that justifies the extra cost.

[jfowl31]

Yeah, just PM him. You have to have something like 50 posts to post in the FS section. The palm shelf is just one more thing to increase accuracy in a way. It helps you get your hand more consistently in the same spot every time. The theory is that anything that helps with consistency will increase accuracy. There isn't a ton of purpose for it, but after shooting my rifle with a palm shelf, I wouldn't have it any other way. Its just a comfort thing for me now. But I don't have one on any other rifle...

[silverbear]

Will do - gotta get the rifle first and try it once without :)