as a precaution as far as part kits go .......

[richl]

I have discussed with a moderator and this needs to be made clear as far as the full auto part kits and having a semi version of what you have........

I did discuss in full detail with a moderator my running in with certain individuals..
while having a hk91 and a ak47 semi rifle and having both full auto part kits in my possession .
in the basement in my buddy's house doing some work in the basement ........

as it was put to me personally. as it was put to me bluntly by several individuals...
it is considered intent to convert to full auto if the agent wishes to do so as far as pressing charges...
my response to the agent was it would not fit without modification to the " trigger pack "..
his response was " I have a dremmel in my possession" and thus could machine it to fit ..( no shit!! that what he said)
I was charged with intent to manufacture, intent to distribute, and intent to convert to full auto.
( can we say 10-15 years at club fed)
I will tell you after spending 72 hours in lock up and going through mass hell as far as mental hell can be ,
I was released and had to fight for about a year. to have charges dropped and my record expunged of such a incident ..
never again will I have in my possession a full auto parts kit and a functioning semi auto of the same make type... it is really up to the agent involved and how big his hard on is for you!!!
I have agreed to share this experience with all of you as per talking to the moderators.. to enlighten you that this can be a nightmare and hell on earth if you take this in to consideration
and have both in your possession ....
you have been advised as to what can happen

please learn from my encounter.. and remember gray areas of the law can come bite you in the ass when you don't think about .
depending on who the agent or agency's are involved .............

and yes I have been a law abiding citizen for all my life .. and always will be ....

and yes I own class 3's........

[turbothis]

sorry to hear that. imagine the things to come.................

[lima]

Sorry to hear what you had to go through. That agent sounds like a wank trying to impress somebody.

I can't help but think how many SBRs they might assume I intend to make with my old hack-saw blade.

Lets not forget the silencers they could assume I might intend to make with the Coke cans in my recycling bin!

[MID]

Thanks for the Advice and life lesson. None of my parts kits came with the evil parts.

[tump]

thanx for the good info. i'm glad its all behind you.

[OrygunKid]

I'm gonna have to mod some parts from my cetme kit just to be safe. I know that it would take alot of doing to make fit a semi, but like you said I own a dremel....
Here in Oregon a guy I met at a gunshow named David Bacon is dealing with over zealous atf agents as well. He sold a pistol to an undercover atf agent from Washington. In Oregon private gun sales are very unregulated, and he was unaware of his responsibility to check that the person was an Oregon citizen. He is now in prison and filing an appeal. He was highly involved in gun safety and education classes, and seemed like a very responsible citizen. The Oregon Firearms Federation http://www.oregonfirearms.org/
has been helping him greatly. But both these stories show that you can't be to careful. Dishonest people will do what ever they want whenever they want!!:nonono: Also, heres a link to his myspace account where there is additional info. www.myspace.com/freebacon

[drine]

Nothing is black and white anymore.

[Otis61]

Boy! My cynical nature is raging. Sometimes this stuff really gets me going. I wish this stuff didn't happen, but it does.

[rep30cal]

Sorry about your experience with the law and whether
folks like it or not, we are guilty until proven innocent.
Todays laws are not what they were meant to be.

[Darkwatch]

Man that sucks! So sorry you had to go through all that. Now if we could just get our fealess leaders to realize real criminals are the problem and to stop trying to make Joe/Jane 6 pack the next Bonnie or Clyde...kinda makes me mad.

[Sleater]

Sorry but something doesn't pass the sniff test here


I was charged with intent to manufacture, intent to distribute, and intent to convert to full auto.

There is NO law on the books prohibiting "Intent". Simply stated, you can't be "Charged" with a crime that doesn't exist.


it is considered intent to convert to full auto if the agent wishes to do so as far as pressing charges...

"the agent" can't arrest someone just because he "wishes" to. He needs a warrant. A warrant applied for by the US attorney and issued by a judge.


and yes I own class 3's........

I have been aquainted with Title II firearm owners for over 20 years. I have never heard any of them say they own "class 3's".

Sorry but none of this story makes any sense.

[WildBillCody]

I was stopped at the airport because I had a Sten parts kit in my checked baggage, detained for hours explaining that it wasn't a firearm, just parts, that was the TSA, then the ATF showed up and the guy was nice, he looked at it and said he's not breaking any laws, but if I would have a piece of pipe with it he would have charged me with intent to build a full auto gun.

These guys can take away your birthday, they lock you up and worry about if it's legal later, guilty till proven innocent.

[M1 Tanker]

Ok Sleater, to be your first post you should did start off on the wrong foot basically calling a member here a liar. Didn't your mama teach you any manners? I talked to Rich on the phone before he posted any of this. Did you ever think there was a warrant and thats how the LEOs made contact? I'm not going to post more on the subject then Rich has. He posted it as public service announment...you can take it or leave it.

I know many quite a few guys with NFA firearms that use the words CLASS III on a regular basis. Try hanging out with re-enactors that carry their machine guns to the field.

People are convicted of "intent"...like possession of pseudoephedrine with the intent to manufacture methamphetamine. Lets face it, we all have a pack of sudafed in our medicine cabinets, but if the police come are they going to charge us with possession of pseudoephedrine with the intent to manufacture methamphetamine?? No...

This is right out of the code.

823 Intent

Section 1005 of Title 18, United States Code, requires a specific intent to defraud as an element of the offense. See United States v. Pollack, 503 F.2d 87, 91 (9th Cir. 1974). see also Harrison v. United States, 279 F.2d 19, 23 (5th Cir.), cert. denied, 364 U.S. 864 (1960). It is not essential, however, that the indictment allege a specific intent to defraud as long as it tracks the statutory language. See United States v. Fusaro, 708 F.2d 17, 23 (1st Cir.), cert. denied, 464 U.S. 1007 (1983). However, a showing of "recklessness" alone is not a sufficient showing of intent. United States v. Adamson, 665 F.2d 649, 657 (5th Cir. 1982), rev'd on other grounds, 700 F.2d 953 (5th Cir. 1983)(en banc), cert. denied, U.S. 464 U.S. 833 (1983).

Three criminal intents are expressed disjunctively in 18 U.S.C. §§ 1005 and 1006: the intent to injure, the intent to defraud or the intent to deceive. It is sufficient to prove any one of the intents though all are cumulatively charged in the indictment.

It is not necessary that actual damages be shown in order to constitute fraud. See Baiocchi v. United States, 333 F.2d 32 (5th Cir. 1964); Harrison v. United States, 279 F.2d 19 (5th Cir.), cert. denied, 364 U.S. 864 (1960). The fact that a false entry was made is prima facie evidence of intent to defraud. See Phillips v. United States, 218 F.2d 385 (9th Cir. 1935).



So Sleater, I think you should maybe offer up an apology or go away. You don't get to come into my living room and take a dump...especially on your first post. Manners is what this forum is about and all you have shown us is your ass.

[mdm2]

I couldnt agree with you more his reply was as if RICHL was makeing the whole thing up Rich has personaly helped me out and went way out of his way and if he says it i believe it, after all it sure is possible with todays antiguners some people should think before they speak:America:

[IMBLITZVT]

I have discussed with a moderator and this needs to be made clear as far as the ....lass 3's........

That sucks Richl. I sure hope you sued that ATF agent personally (if it was ATF which you did not say). I mean that so far out that one can not (as I see it) can't protect against it, gun owner or not. I mean if you have a mill and steal... you can make a machine gun! So is that intent? How about any semi submachine gun... and a soldering iron? I mean if you solder the firing pin forward... it will empty the mag... I mean what you discribe is so far out there with, I do not see any way to protect against it.

That being said, with very few exceptions, having a FA trigger pack it not a problem. Otherwise parts kit with demilled receivers would be a considerable problem! Got a parts kit and a welder... then you have a machine gun...

Bottom line is thats got to be one odd agent. The answer here is to sue the crap out of that agent... because there is no other way to protect yourself!

[avord70]

Just think that somewhere a gun fearing wussy is stomping their hanky because a law abiding won and still has all their big nasty gun. Imagaine what will happen if hillary gets into office.:coolgun:

[tomoshenko]

M1 scolded...
So Sleater, I think you should maybe offer up an apology or go away. You don't get to come into my living room and take a dump...especially on your first post. Manners is what this forum is about and all you have shown us is your ass.

His rude post is certainly deserving of some kind of "lack of Avatar" punishment don't you think?
:=)

I will also have to repremand Jim at the Manchester firing line for using the term "Class 3" transfers on his website instead of "title 2". He should know better having sold, collected and rented MGs for so many years!

[IMBLITZVT]

I may also note that one a HK/CETME, I do not think you could mod the CAI receiver to fit a FA trigger pack with just a Dremel. You would at least need a drill or drill press.

On Sleater... I have to say it but I see where he is coming from. There is a lot of Bullshit on these forums and this story is far out there. Now I am not saying richl is a liar and if Tanker talked to him, thats good enough for me... but I see where Sleater is coming from... If I had read this elsewhere... I think I would be writing the story off...

[tanstaafl4y]

Several of you know my "bonafieds", For those who don't I'll just say I work in an envoronment where I come into contact with many, many law enforcement officers from a variety of agencies.


Intent: All it takes is a skilled prosecutor to nail you for intent to do ANYTHING. Possession of psuedoephedrine alone...you're ok but if you have lithium batteries, Kitchen matches, and draino your screwed...ask for a jury trial and attempt to sway atleas one juror that you not a bad guy, You just happen to have plausible reasons for owning such "dangerous" items.

Yes there are overzealous law-enforcement officers out there. There are even some who are ignorant of the complexities of the law. Thats why a magistrate will certify the charges before you are booked. IF it bullshit hopefully the District Attorney (with or without some prodding from your lawyer) will drop charges before you have to enter a plea or go as far as a trial.

This is where having a bunch of money to pay a defense attorney with Matlkock's reputation is benificial. However if your facing Federal Charges and US Attorney with political/career ambition...dig deep in you pockets.

Expunging your record can be a huge PIA and as laws change it become more and more difficult to do. For example in Virginia if you are accused (not arrested, not convicted, but accused of a sex crime it will be a fixture in your criminal history that can NEVER be removed(But thats a whole 'nother topic))

[Darkwatch]

I hate to sound the alarm bells but does anyone see a real side tword totalitarianism?!?! Yikes:eek:

[david sarnoff]

receive a parts kit that contains such parts to smash the parts and toss them in the trash. I have done it with each of my three AK kit builds and my M-92 SBR Krinkov.

I got the advice from a friend who was a gunsmith that had an agent go off on him once with ridiculous charges. Little did the agent know that one of the gunsmith's customers was a very powerful congressman who sat on the House Appropriations Committee who made a phone call. The letter of apology from the then BATF was amazing.

While you may be legally correct, the agent wins by costing you thousands to prove your innocence.

[M1 Tanker]

Guys,

When Rich first posted this on another thread, I deleted the post and asked him to contact me via PM. His post went against what all of us think, or perhaps know, to be legal. The PM elevated to a phone call where Rich went into details and we discussed what I know and what he knows.

After the talk, I decided to let him post as much information as he chose to. My reasoning was simple, if it could happen to one of us, it could happen to all of us. This post was put up to advise all of us of what is possible, even if we are law abiding citizens.

So, take it for what it is worth. Believe what you choose to and act accordingly. My Freedom is dear to me, as I'm sure it is to you and I've always made sure that I never got into a grey area. This muddies the water for me and extends the grey area in my eyes. Rich did say this happened a number of years ago and I personally believe things have changed, but maybe not. In the end, it resolved, but at the cost of an attorney and I'm sure some pesonal suffering.

So, just be advised, say thank you to Rich for sharing his experience.

Now be advised from the owner of this forum: The next person that calls BS on his story and calls him a liar, is banned. Ya have issues with it, I'm only a PM away and would be happy to discuss with you the rules on my forum.

[Darkwatch]

I just want to be clear that I wasn't calling BS on this story...I was just stating that we (as a country) seem to be sliding down the slippery slope tword totalitarianism. I for one don't doubt Rich's story because I have heard from others about very similar things happening to them (a few deservingly and most not). I am glad he's been cleared and saddened that it even happened in the first place. I just wanted to clarify.

[okie shooter]

Remember the alphabet folks are just doing their job enforceing the regulations as set down, its very clear what the object is of the reg, no more "machine guns", the problem is the definition of what constitutes one.

Thus as the computer learned in "War Games",


"the only winning move ... is not to play"

thus disposal of anything that could cause you future problems is proably in you best interest.

[WildBillCody]

While you may be legally correct, the agent wins by costing you thousands to prove your innocence.

I believe his story, That's my point about being guilty till proved innocent, maybe the guy's wife pissed him off before he went to work, maybe he can't take a crap for the last five days, maybe he doesn't like guns, who know's, but he can ruin your whole year.

I think I got out of my mix up because I was very polite, and the ATF guy was cool, it had nothing to do with me being right or wrong, and having to prove your inocent can be very expensive. Was I doing anything Illegal? Would you consider a box of gun parts a firearm? I wouldn't, but like the ATF man said to me, "you might be right, but what were you thinking?, after 9-11 you try and pull this" like I told him, I never even thought of it, the rules are all "firearms" must be in a locked box and declared in checked baggage, I didn't think a bunch of parts were a "firearm",
the TSA guy told me that he considered a magazine and a barrel a "firearm" and if I would have had any bullets with me I would have been going to jail, instead they gave me a $100 fine for not declarinig a firearm in checked baggage, I think I got off lucky.

[pigpen]

Damn! Glad things worked out for ya!

[richl]

things need to be made clear here. there are A LOT of things I omitted...( the rabbit hole went was deep with my friend yes he was involved into certian stuff ENOUGH SAID)... wont go into that other than of no no stuff was going on .... and I was in the wrong place at the wrong time..... which got me involved in the situation that I got into ...... tanker knows what I omitted.. I left them out for personal reasons.. .. just be aware of
WHAT CAN HAPPEN TO YOU FOR BEING IN THE WRONG PLACE AT THE WRONG TIME.....
if I would of waited several hours I would of avoided the ordeal .......

I got a apology and due diligence was done to the individuals who pressed the bogus charges against me ...
with that I will let a sleeping dog lay ...... I any one from this board wants to meet me in person I will tell all to you face to face only ........ hell I'll even buy you dinner

[Otis61]

Do we have to go to Ohio?

[lilwoody]

I have a good friend who along with his cousin and a third person were just out in the woods shooting a very well used A1AR15. They were approched by a wildlife officer who claimed the AR was full auto but couldn't get it to drop the hammer with the trigger pulled or get the safety fire switch to move into the postion to go full, because it wasn't. He conficated the AR and let them go with a notice to appear. 10 months later the 3 of them were arrested by the ATF, the ATF claimed upon inspection the AR would slam fire, bump 2 rounds with one pull. They considered that full auto and percecuted them to the full extent of the law but they didn't try them in the same trial (my buddy could afford a lawyer, the other 2 couldn't). Well guess what happened? my buddy became 17 thousand dollars lighter and the other 2 got 5 years.

[turbothis]

we are just cattle waiting to get plucked........its just sick what they do to the honest!

[cammobunker]

I find Richl's post to be not only plausible, But almost certainly 100% true, as far as it goes. He's leaving stuff out, as he says, but that's important. A lot of what they decide to charge you with has to do with what else you may be potentially involved in.
Of course, there is always the random asshole with a badge pinned on it, too.
I've known several people who got crossways of atf and none of them won. Be sure who you are associating with. Be sure to stay away from "gray areas", as they can get really dark, really fast. (ATF literally makes up the rules as they go, and can change them as will most of their rules are not laws, but cite the law as they see it at that moment.) Never, ever, ever speak to any federal law enforcement about anything that might get you into trouble, unless you have a written agreement of immunity, or your lawyer is present.

[Grasshopper]

Rich, I agree with you. The auto sear of an AK makes a distinctive (PING) when broken in half and crushed by a ball peen hammer.
Look what these guys did with KTO. They went after him bacause his pieces of metal "Looked Like" a firearm receiver. He is also a JPFO supporter and a thorn in the side of "The Gang".
As you guys said, it also matters who is around and if they are "shaking a tree".
Guys, be aware who you are with and who they are:eek: The way it works is "you emulate the people that you surround yourself with" or, the "people around you will try to be like you if they think you are a leader". It just matters what the motives are of "the group".
We here are in M1s livingroom. I for 1 appreciate it greatly that he allows us to come on over and have a beer with him and his buddies!
Thanks M1.:America:

[IMBLITZVT]

...it, the rules are all "firearms" must be in a locked box and declared in checked baggage, I didn't think a bunch of parts were a "firearm",
the TSA guy told me that he considered a magazine and a barrel a "firearm" and if I would have had any bullets with me I would have been going to jail, instead they gave me a $100 fine for not declarinig a firearm in checked baggage, I think I got off lucky.

I think your wrong to think you got off easy! Did you forget about the Constitution? The problem with the "right" is that unlike the "left" antigunners, we will not sue over every little thing. Some TSA moron considers a barrel a gun? Well I consider him a terrorist!

We are going to loose this battle... and not because of the enemy!

[k98k792]

Let's keep it civil.

[WildBillCody]

[QUOTE=IMBLITZVT;29645]I think your wrong to think you got off easy! QUOTE]

While I know what your saying and I aggree, it could have cost me thousands of dollars and several days in the slammer to prove them wrong, if not more. A $30 sten kit was not worth it to me to push the issue, I got other things to worry about then trying to fight the TSA.

[Norton]

I am afraid of these parts kits for this reason. A local sheriff or simular type LEO thinks I am building a Select fire rifle because I have a semi auto version of it at present.
With the STEN, MP 38 or other SMG they would say why do you have this if your intent is not building a F/A weapon?
Many times I see newspaper stories of guys that have legal rifles and pistols.. But somebodys says this so and so has a Rocket Laucher in his basment. The police raid the house and seize all his stuff tell the press He as a arsenel in his house and we are checking on the rocket launcher right now. They then show a empty LAW, TOW tube or old DRAGON training aid from the 1980s to the TV reporter or newspaper man. I think good god! I remember giving those away to kids back in the 80s myself.
My old boss had his house searched by the law, because his wife told the police in a fit of anger.. He has a grenade!
It was a perfectly legal red Smoke grenade from the PA Natl Guard.
(At least I think they are legal)
They swarmed all over his stuff pulled his guns out of the house and made a real big deal
I have seen simular stuff with Mortar tubes and other inert training aids such as hand grenades with holes cut in the base and painted blue.. Come on! the cops know what this stuff is, most of them have been in the service..I know I have drifted but my point was supposed to be the law and the press can make a big deal out of nothing and ruin your life, if the wrong man is leading the pack.

[Rampager]

I don't doubt for one minute his story. This isn't the first time I've heard this "intent" argument where you are considered guilty till you can prove yourself innocent by the ATF.

We had a case here in PA several years ago where the ATF tried to burn a PA state trooper just because he called them to ask about info on shipping a gun. His problem was he divulged to them while "doing the right thing" asking them for info about shipping his defective firearm back to the manufacture, telling the ATF that his firearm was doubling on him and he wanted to send it back asking them for the laws on mailing a firearm.

The sneaky ATF agent he talked too on the phone gave him the shipping info...but then had the package intercepted.

Story:
GOA Defends Pennsylvania State Trooper

Gun Owners of America takes on individual cases, depending on the situation.

GOA successfully defended a Pennsylvania State Trooper, in the last 4 years, against absurd BATF claims of "illegal possession of a machinegun".

The police officer consulted with BATF in reference to sending his legally-owned AR-15 back to Colt, because the rifle "doubled" from time to time. (Doubling is when a firearm fires two shots with one operation of the trigger; it indicates wear in the trigger group and/or disconnector.)

Following BATF's advice, the officer shipped it to Colt. BATF intercepted the package, tested the rifle until it fired two shots as a result of one operation of the trigger and then arrested the officer for "illegal possession of an unregistered machinegun".

GOA members provided money to get a legal team on the case; once again, a Federal judge threw a BATF case out with prejudice and lectured the Federal officials from the bench on the gross inappropriateness of their behavior.
---------

Even though this case is a little different than what we are talking about, I think this is a good story to read for all gun owners. And BTW, if it were me, I’d throw away any FA trigger parts and make the bolt carrier cut in any Cetme or G3 kits you have on hand if you have a semi gun in your home. If nothing else you will sleep better tonight IMHO.

[Norton]

.

We had a case here in PA several years ago where the ATF tried to burn a PA state trooper just because he called them to ask about info on shipping a gun. His problem was he divulged to them while "doing the right thing" asking them for info about shipping his defective firearm back to the manufacture, telling the ATF that his firearm was doubling on him and he wanted to send it back asking them for the laws on mailing a firearm.

The sneaky ATF agent he talked too on the phone gave him the shipping info...but then had the package intercepted.

Story:
GOA Defends Pennsylvania State Trooper

Gun Owners of America takes on individual cases, depending on the situation.

GOA successfully defended a Pennsylvania State Trooper, in the last 4 years, against absurd BATF claims of "illegal possession of a machinegun".

The police officer consulted with BATF in reference to sending his legally-owned AR-15 back to Colt, because the rifle "doubled" from time to time. (Doubling is when a firearm fires two shots with one operation of the trigger; it indicates wear in the trigger group and/or disconnector.)

Following BATF's advice, the officer shipped it to Colt. BATF intercepted the package, tested the rifle until it fired two shots as a result of one operation of the trigger and then arrested the officer for "illegal possession of an unregistered machinegun".

GOA members provided money to get a legal team on the case; once again, a Federal judge threw a BATF case out with prejudice and lectured the Federal officials from the bench on the gross inappropriateness of their behavior.
---------

.

That story makes my blood boil! I wish I could make some comment but I am almost speachless. Ok I will try.. I can see that happening to Joe Civilian.
But burning a fellow policeman for sending a defective AR back to Colt. What could they possible hope to gain by putting one of their own in the slammer.
Why? I mean he was State Trooper, in the USA that title means something.
My minor contacts with the BAFT have ALL been very good. When I filled out some paper work wrong they called me on my cell at work and told me what I had did wrong. Then helped me make it right..
I guess there are some bad apples in the bunch. I just wish the good apples would keep an eye on things like this State Troopers case.

[amd65]

I disagree that "being a State Trooper is a title that means something..." We all should live by the same rules, LEO or not. His case is horrendous, but it should be the same for Joe Citizen as well. I have just read several threads regarding LEO's violating NFA laws on UZItalk.com, and these guys are out of control--from unregistered machine guns to stolen short barreled shotguns. In every case, they resulted in slaps on the wrist due to their "demonstrated good charactor" for violations which would send an average person to jail.

[Norton]

amd
Sorry I think my point was misunderstood, let me try for a more coherent post. You would think a State Trooper would be given the benifit of dought, as for he called them for advice.
So if they go after a Trooper because his AR is doubling how do they view Joe Civilian?
In most parts of the USA a Trooper is held in high esteem for being a straight shooter. (no pun intended)
I know they should not go after anyone for what this guy did..

That is send a defective rifle back to factory because it shot twice on one pull, then have the feds say you possesed a F/A rifle, at least until you sent it back to get it repaired so it would not shoot twice with one pull.
Man ..they are being like some cartoon or comic book version of a goverment agency with this interpetation of the law.

I agree they should not punish anyone for that. But it makes you wonder about their rmotives for trying to hang one of their own.
Even if he drew his pay from Harrisonburg rather than Washington.
I mean.. I don't get that part. He is one of their own why would they want him behind bars for this sort of non crime?
What law was broken here?

[alamosaddles@aol.com]

Sorry but something doesn't pass the sniff test here

There is NO law on the books prohibiting "Intent". Simply stated, you can't be "Charged" with a crime that doesn't exist.

"the agent" can't arrest someone just because he "wishes" to. He needs a warrant. A warrant applied for by the US attorney and issued by a judge.

I have been aquainted with Title II firearm owners for over 20 years. I have never heard any of them say they own "class 3's".

Sorry but none of this story makes any sense.

You have zero grasp on reality or the law for that matter. A law enforcement officer does NOT need an arrest warrant to arrest you. You may be placed under arrest by any law enforcement officer as long as he has jurisdiction where he and you are located. Whether that arrest will withstand the scrutiny of a court will be decided at a later time by the prosecuting attorney choosing to go forth with charges, or by the court ruling on the legality of the arrest.

Secondly, as to being arrested and charged with a crime that has not actually occured. I can be working undercover and I can approach you on a street corner where you are selling little clear bags with sugar, making me think it's heroin or cocaine, and when I buy it from you, arrest you and charge you with intent to distribute a narcotic. You had NO illegal drugs, and you sold no illegal drugs, yet, you can, and you would not be the first perp, to be found guilty of selling drugs, despite them being fake drugs. Educate yourself before you indirectly call someone you don't know a liar.

[Grasshopper]

If the BATFE are knowingly making laws without congress they are committing treason and should be treated as a threat to your Life Liberty and persuit of Happiness.
If the batfe knowingly hassles people for not braking the law they are using the power of Government to brake somebody financhily and are "murdering" somebody, they should be treated like the "murderers" they are.
"if you take a mans millstone, it is as if you have "murdered" him".:nonono:
This is why Horse thieves were hanged, taking a mans life, his means to make a living is a kind of murder.
My point, If they see a part and say "I can make that full auto in 2 hours, your under arrest".... well I can't finish this statement, because I see their actions and Intent at this point as intent to murder.:nonono:

[rustypirate]

OK everybody, if we cannot behave like grown-ups then I will lock this thread down.

Lets all take a deep breath and cool it for a few minutes before this gets out of hand.

:mallninja:

[mistersquiggles]

funny that i stumbled onto this thread.... talk about a coincidence in the making, though at least in my case there was no arrest, incarceration or otherwise, just a misunderstanding...... I believe Rich's story to be correct if for no other reason than what happened to me on the way to the range just this last friday afternoon.... A buddy of mine called me up and asked if i wanted to go to the range with him, i have been waiting for a while for this invite because he has a really nice thompson (semiauto) and i've been dying to shoot it.... he also has an M1A and i told him since i have plenty of ammo, that he should bring it too, and i'd bring my CETME.... well that was all fine and well til i went to load my truck.... I have to be the victim of the worst timing in the world, or the unluckiest bastard on my block, which one i dont know, but as i was putting my rifle case into the truck a police officer happened to be driving by on patrol.... now here in texas it aint breaking a law to load your rifle into your truck, but it aroused the officers suspicion to see a rifle case, and he stopped.... he came over to me and asked me if i lived there (yes) asked to see my drivers license (sure) and then asked to see what was in the case, and wanted to know what i was going to do with it.... Now, i have no love for police officers overstepping their boundaries, as K98 can attest from a couple of threads on cetmerifles.com where i was posting as pointman03 but i have no problem being civil and letting an officer do his job..... since nothing seemed out of the ordinary I opened my case and this officer had a cow...... he immediately thought it was an automatic firearm, and went as far as telling me that i was about to be an unwilling guest of the city's municipal detention system.... during all this time, another car from the city showed up as well as a constable.... and thank the almighty for that county constable!!!! he took one look at the rifle and asked whether it was H&K or CETME and i told him... after about 5 minutes of calming the original cop down and explaining the difference between a FA rifle and mine, everything was fine, and wouldnt ya know i ended up with a new friend..... but being that the county constable was the only one who: 1) knew what he was looking at, and 2) was willing to listen to my story, and explanation that it was in fact a legally owned SEMI auto, I can see the plausibility of Rich's testament.... sometimes you dont even have to be in the wrong place at the wrong/right/whatever time, it can just end up as a huge misunderstanding under the best of circumstances......

[rustypirate]

Yes, it is prudent to allways carry a copy of the BATFE letter regarding the semi-auto legalities of whatever weapon you might be transporting/shooting at the time.

[Karl E. Hungus]

i agree with rusty pirate. who knows what whistle-blowing communists are hiding where. and keep your ******** legal at all times. no questions asked. atf has a history of shooting first and asking questions later. you need to know your stuff forwards and backwards.

contrary to populare belief it constitutes intent if you are in possession of all the parts to build an illegal firearm so thats why you should JUST NOT HAVE THEM. destroy and get rid of anything fa might come in contact with as soon as you get it.