Police wonder why we disslike them

[random944]

I was pulled over last night for having expired plates. As soon as the police realized i had a UNLOADED AR15 pistol in the car, witch I was bringing home after finishing the last few touches of completion, they pulled me out of the car and arrested me, cuffed me, and put me the back of a cop car and told me I was going to jail for having a short barreled rifle. The AR pistol is a registered pistol. After siiting in the back of the cop car for 45 minutes in hand cuffs, they gave me a ticket for expired plates and no insurance. I got the insurance out of the car that they wouldn't let me go to AFTER the cops let me go. So I 100% HAD insurance in the car. They had to call someone in to verifiy the gun was legal before they would even let me out of cluffs.

I was polite the whole time, and complied with everything they asked. They asked me MANY questions, like who made the gun, where did I buy it, did I have a FFL, when did I get it, where, am I under a judges order to not have guns, blah blah blah. They even went so far as to tell me having the AR pistol was a feliony.

Yes that was my night. BTW no rounds where in the car. The cops pulled ot my 2 inch ninja sword LETTER OPENER that isn't even sharp, and treated it as a deadly weapon. The cops got REALY nice to me once they found the gun was 100% legal.

:1106:

[M1 Tanker]

Random, did you not have in a gun case in the trunk? I am not familar with CO law, but all of mine are always in the gun case in the bed of the truck. Did you consent to a search of your vehicle or was it in plain sight. Did they actually place you under arrest and read you your rights? If so, I would be calling he the Chief and scheduling an appointment to discuss the behavior of his officers.

[okie shooter]

Detention, vs arrest are two different things, I agree with some of the questions chris asked. I guess getting the registration would eliminate the reason you were stopped.

[hunter_la5]

+1 on keeping guns either in the back or locked up in the trunk. it makes officers a WHOLE lot more nervous when there are guns in the cab of the car.
they were probably not in the right, but i can easily understand why they acted this way. i do like most police officers, i have even shot with some at a local range, and most of them are great guys. but there are a few asshles out there....

[random944]

The gun was covered in a tan towel. Its all I had at the shop, I left the case at home by accident. I was in a hatch back car, so thier is no trunk. The AR was covered up to avoid just suck a thing. Someone driving next to me see a gun and calls the police and so forth. They never arrested me, BUT did hold me by my pinky and ring fingers till they cuffed me. They had the LEGAL firearm so there was no reason for cuffing. One officer even asked "should we put bracelets on him?". I just think the situation was 100% over done by the cops.

COLORDAO LAW you can have a firearm in the car. Thus me not being charged for any firearms related crimes. Once they had the gun and checked it out they should have just gave me my expired plates ticket and sent me on my way. No they made a HUGE ordeal, 8 cop cars, me cuffed in the back. Not good.

The cop even asked why I bought the gun, and told me he would have bought it cus it was cooool. Cops showed up just to check the gun out. They called the local AFT/police guy in you confirm the weapon was legal. HUGE problem when there didn't need to be. I wonder how many tax dollars where tossed away.

[okie shooter]

One comment here, You have the right to keep and bear arms, the cops have to right to ensure that they are not going to get shot while doing routine traffic stops. Thus cars with rifles and pistols uncased and in the open, even though you didnt have any oppertunity to place it in a case, give them reasons to be cautious and err on the side of keeping them selves safe. As to the legality of the pistol, as you found their opnions were not the law here.

[M1 Tanker]

So, would that not be a "terry frisk" instead of an arrest? I don't know if a terry frisk covers the vehicle though, its been a long time.

[jonboy20]

Just look at it this way, at least the cop knows the difference now and you have a reason to get new tags!

:cop:

[random944]

They had no reason to handcuff me. No reason to detain me for 45 minutes. No reason to wrench my pinkys. No reason to bring 8 officers, the first two had the situation under control. No reason to paraid my firearms around "checking it out". A simple check of the firearm AFTER they had secured it would had been MORE than enought. You should see the mess they mad of my car. They also should have let me go look for my paper work on my insurance once the car had been searched. After the cop had writen the tickets, I showed him the insurance but he wouldn't take the ticket off. told me I just have to goto court over it.

[SSwee]

In TX once a ticket is written that's it. They can't take it back. Having had a similar incident making a baton for a cop in one town and getting busted in another town for illegal weapon. The arresting cop said he was a friend of the cop I was doing the work for but would not call him to confirm my story. It cost me 36 hours in lockup to have the charges dropped. I understand the frustration.
SS

[random944]

BTW: COLORADO LAW

18-12-204. Permit contents - validity - carrying requirements.

(3) (a) A person who may lawfully possess a handgun may carry a handgun under the following circumstances without obtaining a permit and the handgun shall not be considered concealed:

(I) The handgun is in the possession of a person who is in a private automobile or in some other private means of conveyance and who carries the handgun for a legal use, including self-defense

It also just reminded me to renew my menbership to the NRA.

I can sue them now for illegal detainment and illegal search of my vehical.

[cimmaronkid]

Problem with a law suit is that they have all the time in the world and better lawyers than you or I could hire. They will also close ranks and protect their own. Better course of action might be to go to the commanding officer and file a formal complaint and go to a local TV station and tell them your story. Also go the the DA's office and tell them what happened. There are charges that the DA can bring here. In the formal complaint, you need to ask that a hearing be held into the officers conduct and actions and that you will not accept any review done by his immediate supervisors. If everything went down as you said it did, they were definately out of line.

[Optimus Prime]

and it could always be worse, they let you keep the gun

[Perro]

I can sue them now for illegal detainment and illegal search of my vehical.
This will sound badly, but, i dont think you stand a chance in hell. im not a police officer, but i believe it sort of goes like this.

first off, they can detain you as long as they want. If you dont make it clear that they need to charge you, or let you go, then thats your fault.

secondly, all they need to search your vehicle is suspicion - line of sight over anything that looks suspicious, and youre screwed, they are searching your car, and you have no rights. All they have to say is they saw the outline of a firearm under the towel, and they were concerned cause they are trying to catch someone holding liquor stores in the area, or what not.

and i dont mean to preach, but all it would have taken to avoid this whole situation would be to have paid your car registration, and possibly even bought a locking case.

I aint trying to preach here, but i was pulled over for speeding once on a way to a shoot with 16 assault rifles in the bed of the truck and probably 10,000 rounds of ammo - any guesses as to how my day went?? Sorta real similar to yours - ive since learned that stuffing them into the locking tool box, and not speeding would have prevented it. I cant blame them for the way they treated me, they were only trying to do there job, and if i wouldnt have been such a dumb ass and drove my truck over the legal speed limit, they would have had no reason to pull me over :1087:

[A.D.A.]

+1 to Perro.

Cops are going to neutralize any potential threat, and they don't know you. They should not have let you go back to the car, that would have been stupid. It would not have been stupid on their part not because of anything you have done, but because criminals and their actions have mandated that the cops behave that way. Mayberry doesn't exist anymore. Clarence Darrow, criminal defense attorneys, and everyone else that has eroded the common sense out of the criminal justice system are who you should be angry at, because they have fostered the environment we currently live in.

I don't believe you would prevail in your lawsuit. If they had searched your car illegally and found evidence to be used in a criminal trial, then you might get your evidence suppressed. There is no civil action that contemplates recovery of damages in this situation. Cops can search whoever they want, they just might not be able to use it in a criminal proceeding if they do it illegally.

I understand your experience was not pleasant and the police could have behaved in a more polite manner, but let the wisdom of cooler heads prevail. Don't start a lawsuit that will probably cost you a lot of money and frustration with little or no chance of winning. Just my 2 cents.

[kevin]

the same thing nearly happend to me, i had a plastic sack of fired brass 8mm rifle casings on the floorboard behind my seat and they tore my car to shreads looking for the pistol that fired those expended cartridges. I clearly stated i had no weapons of any type, firearms or knives etc, and those were expended rifle cartridges i wanted to save for reloading. They tolld me i should not half those in the passenger compartment but locked in the trunk.

then there was the time i was frisked and everything after they pulled guns on me and called for more backup and they took my info and drivers license to run because i was target practicing on private land under very safe circumstances with a bolt action rifle in the middle of the country where the nearest house was directly south of me 1/2 mile away and no others within many miles. I was firing into the bank of a very tall creek with thick woods behind it. They also made me tell them the serial number so they could check if it was stolen. They came onto private land to do this.

Several similar things happened like this too, and now i buy guitar cases and cases that dont look like gun cases.

[wonderwolf]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqMjMPlXzdA

[Seattlefungus]

Well guys' let me start by saying I'm a cop of 30 years. You really do run a risk driving with weapons visible in a car. (Contrary to popular belief) cops do too. Me and my partner went to Canada on a weekend off, Got stopped on the US side coming back in and when Customs asked to see the registration, there was a box of Remington .357 ammo. We were told to park and six of them took my car apart. 3 hours later, we were sent on our way without so much as a thank you for your Patience. If you have loose fried casings in the car, whoa boy. They at least think they have a drive-by shooter. A traffic stop turns in to a Terry with "Reasonable Suspicion" A gun in open or plain view, empty cartridges on the floor board. With most states, shooting from a vehicle is a Hunting violation. It all gives the cop a reason to dig further. And in most states, they do not have to get a warrant to check your car. Called the "Carrol Doctrine" as the car is mobile and to get a warrant take time. I carry the items in the back of the van in a gun case, ammo in a separate container (Range bag) or trunk. To make matters worse, carry laws vary by state.

You also have the misfortune of the likelihood to have an "Aggressive Officer" read that young and eager looking for the next serial killer or major felony arrest.

Having a carry permit is a good idea in most cases as those working the highways will frequently ask if there are weapons in the car. Being up front and advising them you have a permit, NOT GRABBING for the wallet, will for the most part help show your being a Lawful gun owner.

[random944]

All im saying is they WENT WAY outa there way to make things bad for me. If the guy had let me get my insurance and paper work I wouldn't have gotten the ticket I got.

they also had no reason to just search my car dew to the fact I had a firearm. I want to see the law PRINTED ANYWHERE that says that. If so EVERY person can have thier homes search JUST IN CASE THEY OWN A GUN. Its not right.

[amd65]

In Ohio, it is clearly stated that one of the ways you can legally transport a firearm, is in plain view with the action open or dis-assembled. The ammo must be in a separate location, such as trunk or locked glove box.
What you went through was un-called for, but, as Perro said, you shouldn't be driving on expired plates.
Maybe you should have taken the oportunity to make some cop friends by offering to bring your AR pistol to the range and letting them shoot it. Sounds like a fun time, lemonade from lemons, and all that.

[M1 Tanker]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terry_v._Ohio

[Seattlefungus]

Random, if you feel that strongly about the manner the officers treated you, most police agencies have an internal investigations complaint system.
I would advise you wait a few days, let the incident move from the emotional place it holds now and write down what your grievance is. First let me say from your description of the incident, the officers were acting with complete legal authority. They stopped you for traffic violation. Legal. When making contact with you they saw a weapon in “plan view”, an exception to the warrant requirement. Legal. As the officers now can detain you under Terry v Ohio and the offense they are investigating they can reasonably believe you may have access to additional weapons, they can remove you from the car and cuff you. Legal.

So as far as the stop and detention goes. You have no real claim to pursue. You could find a lawyer that would take it and file it and take your money for the case, and you will lose. And most state have a provision that allows the officers to each sue you for a furiously suit. The only hope you can have in this no winner is the City decides to throw you a bone of a few bucks as a nuisance suit, and your lawyer takes most of it for “costs” and it’s always under $500.00/ Then if you insist on going to court and lose. The loser in Civil cases pays the costs of the prevailing party. So you lose again.

If you want to file a complaint about the conduct of the officers. I would say you would only have a few points on which to complain.

The lack of training of the officers in recognizing a legal firearm.
The Officers acting “Officious” and rude in their personal conduct.
Failure to professionally conduct themselves by refusing to examine the legal proof of insurance which was located in the same car in which they had conducted and exhaustive search for contraband, which brings to question the officers conduct being punitive, or the professional competency of the officers.
That all Police Citizen contacts have a beginning, a middle and an end. That the officers while within their legal duties and authority in the incident, could have been more professional and less officious by instructing you in the acceptable manner to transport a weapon, either allow you, or retrieve themselves the proof of insurance and close the contact with a positive note rather than “Sign here and here’s your copy” then leave.I will tell you not to expect a lot from the complaint process, but if you don’t go on a rant and just stick to the complaints I’ve outlined you will have a positive response from the agency. Even if it just a polite letter saying the supervisor has spoke with the officers involved and thank you for your concern.

Of course one thing should be noted here. Everyone likes to put themselves in a positive light, but 90% of police cars have taping equipment and every time a complaint comes in, that is looked at first. Just FYI…
So don’t write anything official while angry.

[random944]

I hope they have tapes. I was 100% polite to the officers. And the weapon was coverd. Witch is legal. Just cus I have a weapon in the car is NO REASON to detain me{for so long in cuffs}, and search the car. There was NO ammo used or other wise. They simply did it becuase they can. No reason to cuff me when I was being compliant. The STUPID cop even took my 3 inch NON sharp letter opener out of the car, you couldn't even cut bread with the thing. but they SURE DID MISS MY INSURANCE CAR AND PROFF OF DRIVERS LICENSE.

I have checked with a lawer, and in his words." a firearm in a vehical is no reason to search it UNLESS they can find other reasons to". I gave them no other reason. The plates where out of date because its a car I had stored for the winter. I truthfuly had no idea the plates where bad. I was detained WHILE looking for the insureance, and was not allowed to return to my car to present it to them. In fact my girlfriend {who I called} even brought the officers a copy of my insurance. They charged me with EVERYTHING THEY COULD. Witch wasn't much.

Your an EX COP, your view is tainted. And im not being mean about this, im not flameing you. Cops stand up for there own, even if there own is wrong. I had a roomate that was a police officer before, I saw him do it, and his buddies.

Im done. Ill not going to dwell on this. no reason to, some cops are retarded, I have to live with this. Kinda nice 10 cops all came to check out my gun, like school kids looking at there first playboy. they even posed with it like tough guys.

PS the arresting officer was very polite, who ever the officer was that said I had a illegal gun and I was going to jail was, I have no idea.

[Perro]

some people have to learn on there own