think im going to build a lil AR w/ punch...

[mofocus]

i want somthing different thany my PTR91, light but still pack a punch. im thinking right now a CAVARMS MKII Lower for reduced weight. these have the wider mag wells too which will help if i change my mind towards diff calibers, but right now im leaning towards the 6.5 Grendel, from what ive read it performs proportionately under the 7.62, better than the 6.8 overall and heavier than the 5.56, which is what i want.......im wanting this to be a light yet versatile AR. so far though the only places ive found the upper and lower at a decent price is from the mfg. cavarms (http://www.cavalryarms.com/MKII.html) and alexander arms (http://alexanderarms.com/siteshopper.htm?cat=15&item=65)

what you guys think abt the coyote brown too? :P

[mrbgt]

6.5 grendel sounds great but the rumors are that they break bolts more frequently than 6.8 . the grendel is supposed to be way more accurate which is a plus . brown is good for the lower :thumbup:

[Woodman in MO]

Have you considered looking at the new Bushmaster .450 AR?

[turbothis]

to bad there is no 12ga. ar.

[LCPL 4]

Saw a video on youtube awhile back. Some company in Turkey makes 12ga. ar's.

[IMBLITZVT]

NO... hands down the 50 beowulf!

http://www.50beowulf.com/images/products/alex_50_mag_sm.jpg

http://www.50beowulf.com/store/AA-BEO-ENTRY-U.htm

Everything else is still just a Poodle shooter!

[weasel_master]

I've thought about getting into that beowulf. I know someone back home with one. I want to shoot it a few times before committing though.

[mofocus]

NO... hands down the 50 beowulf!

http://www.50beowulf.com/images/products/alex_50_mag_sm.jpg

http://www.50beowulf.com/store/AA-BEO-ENTRY-U.htm

Everything else is still just a Poodle shooter!

i think the only other option i has was a 458 socom, but remember im looking for somthing LIGHTER and i want some range to it heh :P

[IMBLITZVT]

I met the guy who designed and built this gun... I hope to one day know as much as that guy has forgotten about guns!


i think the only other option i has was a 458 socom, but remember im looking for somthing LIGHTER and i want some range to it heh :P

Its the LIGHTEST 50 cal rifle out there!

Its got all the range you need, unless you are shooting poodles at 2000 yards! :wink:

:sterb126:

[hunter_la5]

Its got all the range you need, unless you are shooting poodles at 2000 yards! :wink:

meh, with a 100 yard zero the bullet drop is only 10 or 11 feet at 400 yards, that seems pretty negligable....

[pigpen]

meh, with a 100 yard zero the bullet drop is only 10 or 11 feet at 400 yards, that seems pretty negligable....

10 or 11 feet ain't that much.

[jfowl31]

Don't swear off the 6.8. I've shot a 6.5 Grendel, and it's OK, but after shooting it and reading more on the 6.8, I went with 6.8. Ballistics mimic the 308 with 80% of the knockdown power. Mine is a 16" upper and is the lightest rifle I own... even lighter than my G22. Ammo is expensive for either, but mag capacity is better on the 6.8. 6.5 is known to break bolts and tear up barrels... just seems like there's more research and development in the 6.8 because of the possible military use.

p.s. the 6.5 I shot was a 20" and wasn't extremely accurate. 2 MOA with a 16 power scope on top... I expected more. The gun jammed a few times in the one sitting we all had shooting it, but that could have been because it was basically running DRY.

I'm just saying read a little more about the knockdown and ballistics of the 6.8. it packs a hard little punch in a really small package. I fit 27 rounds in the 25 round mag which is about the same size as the 30 round 223 mags... I like the high capacity. Reloading components are cheap for it ($20 for dies from Lee) and it doesn't use too much powder so a can will last a while.

JMO, I'll post a range report just as soon as I get this 6.8 to the range.

Oh and for the record, my vote is for 50 Beowulf or 458 socom if you want PUNCH!

[mofocus]

Don't swear off the 6.8. I've shot a 6.5 Grendel, and it's OK, but after shooting it and reading more on the 6.8, I went with 6.8. Ballistics mimic the 308 with 80% of the knockdown power. Mine is a 16" upper and is the lightest rifle I own... even lighter than my G22. Ammo is expensive for either, but mag capacity is better on the 6.8. 6.5 is known to break bolts and tear up barrels... just seems like there's more research and development in the 6.8 because of the possible military use.

p.s. the 6.5 I shot was a 20" and wasn't extremely accurate. 2 MOA with a 16 power scope on top... I expected more. The gun jammed a few times in the one sitting we all had shooting it, but that could have been because it was basically running DRY.

I'm just saying read a little more about the knockdown and ballistics of the 6.8. it packs a hard little punch in a really small package. I fit 27 rounds in the 25 round mag which is about the same size as the 30 round 223 mags... I like the high capacity. Reloading components are cheap for it ($20 for dies from Lee) and it doesn't use too much powder so a can will last a while.

JMO, I'll post a range report just as soon as I get this 6.8 to the range.

Oh and for the record, my vote is for 50 Beowulf or 458 socom if you want PUNCH!


meh i dunno i looked at ballistics charts all night long one night , and the 6.5 seemed to perform more proportionately to 7.62 than the 6.8, but then again that could depend on who made the charts, i keep seeming to come back to 7.62, its the most reliable cartridge w/ punch i think there is for the AR but that doesnt solve my light weight non 7.62 chambered want, the .50 and .458 are going the opposite direction of what this project had intended though it is still a good direction :P. at any rate, i think i will start out w/ a lower, not sure yet wether it will be a standard either DPMS or RRA type or a polymer CAVARMS, i want the CAVARMS but some things abt it worry me, sure theres a warranty, but if it breaks when i need it whats a warranty worth to a dead man? course that could be any gun.....but still....decisions decisions...guess ill keep looking but again my interests at the moment are
>is larger than .223 caliber
>is smaller than .308
>will be 16" brl
>is small and lightweight for an AR (CAVARMS or metal w/ collapsable stock?)

[mrbgt]

i wouldn't worry about the cavarms lower . those guys stand behind their product 100 % .awhile back a guy on ar15.com had a broken vulcan plastic lower , a guy from cavarms posted with the offer to send it to him for his collection in return he sent him a free cavarms lower , he just had to pay ffl fees .

[jfowl31]

I think the 6.5 shoots flatter than a 308 actually, while the 6.8 shoots almost identical. They have basically the same knockdown since the 6.8 is a bigger bullet.

I went with the 6.8 because its "flat enough" and is higher mag capacity, and less recoil. Also because of the problems that are being had with 6.5 uppers. AND because of the possible chance that 6.8 may get picked up one day for a military caliber thus cheap ammo. Right now, prices on ammo are comparable.

They both are great choices I think. Both shoot very well out to long ranges, both have good energy for kills on decent sized game (human sized or bigger). I like te 6.8 because of the 6.5 feeding issues, and mag capacity. That and the fact that the experience I had shooting the 6.5 wasnt great (sub-par accuracy and feeding issues with a stock rifle).

I'll let you know how my Stag performs with a reflex sight on it and BUIS. I won't be putting a scope on it until I really start to work up some reloads, and even then it will be temporary mainly to see how small I can shrink groups, then the "battle sights" will go back on as I'm not wanting this to be a scoped shooter, more of a quick target acquisition shooter... a good brush hog gun. I still want to know I'm shooting the most accurate bullets I can in it, and a red dot or reflex can be tough to judge as so much depends on the shooter.

[esninak]

just a question, but have you considered a .243 or .25 WSSM upper. i dont know a lot about them, but they seem to fit into the guidelines your looking for.

[jfowl31]

correct me if I'm wrong, but I think both 243 and 25 wssm have to be built on an AR10 lower. Not that there is anything wrong with an AR10 lower, but its a bit more costly, as are accessories, and you can't just swap on a 223 or 762x39 or any other smaller caliber.

again, I could be wrong on that, but I know the 243 is the same OAL almost as the 308 and the 25wssm has such a huge base that I wouldnt think the 223 platform bolt could handle it along with all the punch it packs.

[mrbgt]

yep , ar10 lower . grendel and 6.8 spc were created to fit the already available .223 ar platform

[esninak]

take a look on Olympic Arms (olyarms.com), they sell complete uppers and mags for ar-15s, .223, .243, .25 wssm

[jfowl31]

ohhhhh... 243 WSSM and 25 WSSM... I guess they will fit on a regular AR-15 lower and work. It sure does seem like the base would be much too large for the AR bolt to handle.

I'm guessing they've done their research though.

If you don't mind the gross loss in magazine capacity, those might be the way to go. I just can't see that large case functioning very well in a semi-auto, and I can see the bolt taking a beating and possibly cracking. Ive shot a 243 WSSM in a Winchester 70, and it was hard enough to get it to feed right in a bolt action, I don't even want to imagine it in a semi.

Ammo also costs well over a buck a round for both calibers as well.

[jfowl31]

http://www.dtechsuperstore.com/WSSM%20page.htm

"That's a HUGE bitch!"

I think its kinda neat except that the magazines only hold 7 rounds, and I'm sure cost a crapload. after a little quick google research, it seems they are quite reliable and feed well... and most say they are half-MOA accurate. maybe not a bad choice if cost and ammo capacity are not a factor. it looks like the uppers start aroun 750-800 bucks, and it will run you $20 to get it sighted in.

[nowhereman]

The .243 is very appealing. I would love to have one of those uppers. I just prefer a readily available and diverse round like the .243 or the 50 beowolf. I have a DPMS lite and a personal build M-4 but I am pretty sure my next AR platform will be the .243. I think DPMS makes one of those uppers. I haven't seen a kit I can build from.

[jfowl31]

243 WSSM and 50 Beowulf readily available???

Man the only place I can buy that stuff is at Cabelas, and the Beowulf runs a few bucks a round, and the 243 is about 1.50. There's only 1 brand making Beowulf, and jst Winchester making all the WSSM's.

[nowhereman]

Well you are right about limited producers. In respect to the .243 I really wasn't talking about the WSSM I guess. All the sporting goods stores carry these brands down here. Then again I live in Alabama and just 15 yrs ago you could buy ammo at the grocery store.............

[jfowl31]

I'd love to have an AR-10 with a 243 upper to play around with... then ammo would be a bit more available. The WSSm stuff is just too expensive for me to play with yet. Im not even sure if those massive cases will work with a standard RCBS Rock Chucker reloading press. I wish they would hav emade all those calibers in a regular ShortMag rather than the stubby WSSM. A short mag would have been just fine to get them short enough for a short action.

OT, bu the one I would buy if I got a WSSM would be the 325....... talk about some PUNCH!!!!! I wonder if anyone makes that in an AR.

Who is the maker of your 50 Beowulf? I can't rememer off the top of my head who makes the stuff sold at cabelas.

btw, depending on what all you want, at the big box hunting stores, you can pretty much buy groceries at the ammo store. Along with clothes, barbecue pits, ATV's, Golf clubs, soccer shoes, and every now and then they feature a truck for sale in the camping section.

[weasel_master]

Alexander Arms makes it I believe.

[jfowl31]

I meant the ammo Weasel, but it actually may be the same company making the ammo as well as the uppers.

[jfowl31]

yep... they sell both the upper and the ammo.

27.99 per 20 at cabelas.

[esninak]

i think anyone that really wants to run through some rounds witha a WSSM or the .50 would have to start reloading. i dont know how the average person could afford the ammo, but since a reloader is in my near future, i like the looks of the .25 WSSM. wolves beware.

[Bulletboy]

How common is that Beowulf ammo? I dont remember having noticed any of it while looking around. It says it fits in standard .223 mags single stacked. I'd be interested in hearing from anyone who has one. I've been considering starting a .50 build, but I'm also thinking of saving myself some work and just buying one. EDIT: Oops, sorry, I replied after reading only the first page of this thread like a moron. My ammo availability question was already answered :)