Replacing Rollers

[Genocide]

Hey fellas,
I just got my new locking piece+pin+spring and +4 rollers from RTG. The locking piece and Firing-pin were easy to install; working great(gave me .002 boltgap on .000 gap) But I have yet to install the rollers.
My question is, can one of you give me a run-through on how to take the old rollers out to be replaced.

Thanks a ton!

[jettag]

Easy, isolate the bolt with rollers somewhere so they can't roll 'under the rug',
Tap out the roll pin (top of bolt)...& jiggle 'em out carefully.

[Genocide]

Okay, thats what I was thinking. Didn't think it was that simple =)

BTW is that a pink Mak?

[Genocide]

Well I replaced the rollers(+4) and locking piece and it gave me a .002/3 bolt gap, any idea of what else is wrong?

[drine]

RTG doesn't sell CETME locking pieces. Is this a G3 or CETME?

In case you do have a CETME LP and rollers from Robert and still haven't raised your bolt gap, I'd consider a bolt head.

I ran in to similar issues with my rifle and only after putting a new bolthead, LP, and +4 rollers did I get .014 on a rifle that had .004 to start.

My barrel and trunnion were about flush as I could see it. Putting a new barrel on now due to accuracy issues. I will press it to get a medium bolt gap of .018 or so and hopefully settle to .014.

Hopefully one of the more "seasoned" vets here can add to this but make sure you clarify what locking piece you have and for what rifle type.
David

[drine]

No one ever questioned me on this. Oversize rollers are made to take up the slop in an old bolt head, correct? Then if I put +4 rollers in a new bolthead, I'm messing up? Please someone clarify.

[Genocide]

Its G3 parts on a Cetme. My bolt head is not worn hardly at all, I mic'ed it and compared it to one of Perros new bolt head measurements and it came out to the same measurement.
Upon reading over faqs I checked if my bolt carrier was hitting my cocking tube It is and has no space between the two. Do I fix this with the dime trick and grind?

[drine]

The dime trick is for when you have too much play. If you are hitting, you will have to grind the carrier end or reweld the cocking tube. I know I won't reweld.
Try taking your cocking handle and support out. Pull all the internals, pull the handle back and you'll see two holes that you can drift the pin out. Be careful not to lose the spring and remember which way it came out. After the handle is removed you can let the support it was attached to slide out. Now put it all the other parts back together(minus the handle and support it was attached to) and check your gap. The support won't interfere and you will also have some kind of idea how much if any material needs removed.
Next question is how to get your locked carrier out without the aid of your handle. Carefully insert a big flat tip or other tool through the slot at a 90 degree angle. It helps if someone can hold the rifle or lock it in something. Whack it hard and it will come out. Be careful and don't ding the edge of the slot.
What kind of accuracy were you getting? Our rifles seem to have the exact problems.
Also, did you say you put a HK locking piece in a CETME bolt/carrier?? Can't do that. I may have misunderstood but those parts don't interchange. Please clarify so we will all know. Does your receiver say CAI CETME on the mag well?
Good luck and report back if you will.

[OrygunKid]

Its G3 parts on a Cetme. My bolt head is not worn hardly at all, I mic'ed it and compared it to one of Perros new bolt head measurements and it came out to the same measurement.
Upon reading over faqs I checked if my bolt carrier was hitting my cocking tube It is and has no space between the two. Do I fix this with the dime trick and grind?

The area that wears is actually the slot the rollers move in that makes the difference. Even if it measures 1.835" long, the area that the rollers move in could be worn. also a tiny bit of wear there can make a big difference. +4 rollers only measure .3165" where as standard rollers are .3149", thats barely over 1.5 thousands, but can make upwards of .008" difference in b.g. Also the charging handle should have just a small amount of wiggle, If not I'd do like Drine said and remove charging handle and see if it still is bad. BUT KEEP IN MIND, as you do move your bolt gap back, THE CLEARANCE FOR THE CHARGING HANDLE WILL INCREASE! this is a good thing:icon_biggrin: So if you can fix your bolt gap issue first you may solve the other problem as well!!GOOD LUCK P.S. Also a G3 Locking piece SHOULDN'T work(though I haven't tried).

[jettag]

that has a really nice comparison chart/table for the bazillion different G3 locking pieces if you want to ID the one you got from RTG.

And it's NOT a pink Makarov...just bad lighting on my favorite Sig.
An oddball P230 cal. .32B with a frame mounted safety and a lanyard loop.

Don't have any pink guns yet but my daughter is coming of age soon!
She picked out a pink Cricket .22lr at Dorn Hardware last week.

[Seattlefungus]

CETME locking pieces are milled to a 50 degree slope at the locking shoulder. Seems to me the G# might be different. It's usually stammed right on the locking piece. (Robert does ahe a small amount of CETME parts for sale now on the compabiltiy page

[The Great 308]

CETME locking pieces are milled to a 50 degree slope at the locking shoulder. Seems to me the G# might be different. It's usually stammed right on the locking piece. (Robert does ahe a small amount of CETME parts for sale now on the compabiltiy page

Seattlefungus is correct about the Cetme locking piece. Here is a link to the comparaison of HK locking pieces on HK pro that Jettag refereed to.

http://www.hkpro.com/lockingpc.htm

[drine]

There are several LP angles HK lists for anything from regular, full auto, sniper, silencer equiped etc.. each with a bit of different angle. All designed for the particular pressure each round might generate. From what I remember it's not just the angle that is different between HK and CETME but OAL, locking area and such. Just be careful and check to be sure before you get hurt or ruin something. Ain't nothing worth a trip to the hospital unless the Sweedish bikini team's bus has an accident in front of you.:icon_razz:

[okie shooter]

The thing about locking peices and the angles is that these were devloped by engineers in the production/reasearch arena, not somthing the average home builder should engage in without plenty of safety and barrel/trunion/bolts to destroy in process. The other is you cannot just start grinding on a locking peice to change the angle, If you do you will go thur the surface hardening on the peice and into the softer metal below. If this occours and you dont reharden the surface, weird wear patterns may occour.

[Genocide]

The dime trick is for when you have too much play. If you are hitting, you will have to grind the carrier end or reweld the cocking tube. I know I won't reweld.
Try taking your cocking handle and support out. Pull all the internals, pull the handle back and you'll see two holes that you can drift the pin out. Be careful not to lose the spring and remember which way it came out. After the handle is removed you can let the support it was attached to slide out. Now put it all the other parts back together(minus the handle and support it was attached to) and check your gap. The support won't interfere and you will also have some kind of idea how much if any material needs removed.
Next question is how to get your locked carrier out without the aid of your handle. Carefully insert a big flat tip or other tool through the slot at a 90 degree angle. It helps if someone can hold the rifle or lock it in something. Whack it hard and it will come out. Be careful and don't ding the edge of the slot.
What kind of accuracy were you getting? Our rifles seem to have the exact problems.
Also, did you say you put a HK locking piece in a CETME bolt/carrier?? Can't do that. I may have misunderstood but those parts don't interchange. Please clarify so we will all know. Does your receiver say CAI CETME on the mag well?
Good luck and report back if you will.

Looks like Ill have to sell off the G3 locking piece and use my old one(CIA Cemte).
Ill try and take my cocking handle out and check my gap this weekend. Should I use a file or grinding wheel to take material off?

I'm getting poor accuracy; my front sight post is canted off to the left so much that when its adjusted all the way right, I still shoot 2' at 100 yards. have yet to get a scope mount and scope for it, don't think ill invest anymore money in the gun until I can fix the mechanical problems. :censored:

Where can I buy a new bolt head?

I really appreciate the help and information you fellas are providing. :fing02:

[jfowl31]

DONT GRIND THE CARRIER YET!!!

It could be bottomed out because your gap is bottomed out. and then if you grind it now, by the time you get some gap in your rifle, you wont be able to charge the damn thing because youll have too much cocking tube gap. Set your bolt gap, THEN mess with the cocking tube gap.

You can get a new CETME LP, and new CETME bolt head in various places. That'd be what Id do next. If that dont work, repressing the barrel is probably in order. You can fix the canted sights in that process as well.

I think Arnaiz has new bolt heads and LP's, and I know there are a couple other sources, but cant remember them right now.

[Genocide]

Ill hold off on doing anything drastic until I can get a new locking piece and bolt head.

If replacing worn parts doesn't do the trick, ill try pressing the barrel. Im not familiar with pressing barrels in any since, so if it comes down to it I'll either be asking for a lot of help or selling/shelfing the damn thing.