Honoring Nazi victims as witnesses fade

[SteelCore]

http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/01/28/europe/nazi.php

Most countries celebrate the best in their past. Germany unrelentingly promotes its worst.

"Where in the world has one ever seen a nation that erects memorials to immortalize its own shame?" said Avi Primor, the former Israeli ambassador to Germany, at an event commemorating the Holocaust and the liberation of Auschwitz on Friday in Erfurt. "Only the Germans had the bravery and the humility."

[ctdemolay0405]

very interesting article

[97th Signalman]

I served in the US Army in Germany 1960-63. The war had ended just 15 years earlier and many Germans were in denial regarding the holocaust. I often heard people say, "It was the Nazis. Only the leaders knew. We were not political so we didn't know anything."

It's satisfying to see that, with the passage of time, they are finding the moral strength to acknowledge what happened and they are actively preserving the real history. Japan, on the otherhand, has chosen to forget everything that happened. They could take a lesson from the Germans on this.

What is that quote? "Those that ignore the mistakes in their history are destined to repeat them."

[GearHD]

Is Nicholas Kulish off his "Rocker". Memorials are to "Honor" the dead not condemn the country for it's mistakes. If what he said ( the Holocaust Memorials celebrate Germany mistakes.) were true we need a memorial for the Branch Davidians to remind the rest of our country what the Clintons do when they are in power.

[dpoe]

That was an interesting article indeed. If you ever go to Berlin you should check out the memorial in the photo with the woman and the umbrella. It'll blow your mind; it's so disorienting. Also there is a Holocaust/Jewish Museum which is really good as well.

I took some photo of the memorial when I was in Berlin. thought I'd share

[Optimus Prime]

Couldn't help but think of the episode of Family Guy when Brian's in Germany, and asks the tour guide why there's nothing in the guide book from 1935-45, and he loudly declares the entire country was on vacation...

[jettag]

and the victims of all wars you may want to check this artist out, I've found strength in his message, you may too.:thumbup:

Matisyahu

You'll find there are four albums out since '04 and he is mighty in word and deed.

Pray for peace and prepare for the defense of the innocent...
this world is at a turning point in history friends.

[SteelCore]

My dad was in at the same time, USAF, 60-63, Darmstadt. Where were you stationed?

BTW, did you get your could war vet papers a few years back? Dad got those and I was saying "Wow, the Cold War will now be known as such!"

Then I got my legion papers.

[Geilt]

As I read the article it doesn't sound as though the memorials are inteded to glorify the deeds of the Nazis or what happened during that period of Germany's history.

The two memorials specifically called out in the piece are for German Gypsys and gays/lesbians killed by the Nazis. While the Jews absolutely bore the worst of the Holocaust, there were other ethic and religous groups that were included. To not acknowledge them as well would be to deny them their history.

I think the author of the article and the former Israeli ambassador are a bit biased on the matter.

[97th Signalman]

My dad was in at the same time, USAF, 60-63, Darmstadt. Where were you stationed?

BTW, did you get your could war vet papers a few years back? Dad got those and I was saying "Wow, the Cold War will now be known as such!"

Then I got my legion papers.

I think that we have a remarkable coincidence here. I was with the 97th Signal Battalion which was headquartered in Boeblingen. However I worked all over Germany as we had VHF Radio terminals and relay stations in dozens of locations. I actually spent a few weeks in Darmstadt on TDY until I got a more permanent assignment first in Langenbrandt and then Bad Duerkheim. I was probably in Darmstadt around March of 1961. I can't remember that name of the post. Our deteacment in Darmstadt was small, perhaps 3 or 4 Radio Operators, and we were attached to and lived with some other unit. The only names that I remember from our detachment in Darmstadt are Gerald Mohr, who was our team chief, and Joe Federal.

The only Air Force unit that I had any contact with was the 12th RRS (Radio Relay Squadron) that operated the same equipment that we had. They were in Pforzheim.

And, no...I never received the Cold War Vet papers that you say that your dad got. I don't even know what they are.

[okie shooter]

As I read the article it doesn't sound as though the memorials are inteded to glorify the deeds of the Nazis or what happened during that period of Germany's history.

The two memorials specifically called out in the piece are for German Gypsys and gays/lesbians killed by the Nazis. While the Jews absolutely bore the worst of the Holocaust, there were other ethic and religous groups that were included. To not acknowledge them as well would be to deny them their history.

I think the author of the article and the former Israeli ambassador are a bit biased on the matter.I might be reading their comments differently, the thought is that they actually confront these ugly moments in their history, exposeing it for what it was, rather than do what the Japaneese are trying to do, bury it under the rug.

[GearHD]

I might be reading their comments differently, the thought is that they actually confront these ugly moments in their history, exposeing it for what it was, rather than do what the Japaneese are trying to do, bury it under the rug.
I just saw a PBS program on the Japanese biological warfare they used on the Chinese in WWII. I didn't know the Japanese were the first to use biological agents in war. They must have a extremely big rug. But what really get's me is that the rest of the Sheep in the world still bitch at us for nuked them. In retrospect we should have Nuked Afghanistan after 911. Ya there would've been a whole lot of angry people in the world but the war would've been over & the price of oil would still be @ $20 a barrel.

[97th Signalman]

I just saw a PBS program on the Japanese biological warfare they used on the Chinese in WWII. I didn't know the Japanese were the first to use biological agents in war. They must have a extremely big rug. But what really get's me is that the rest of the Sheep in the world still bitch at us for nuked them. In retrospect we should have Nuked Afghanistan after 911. Ya there would've been a whole lot of angry people in the world but the war would've been over & the price of oil would still be @ $20 a barrel.

Actually one of the first instances of bilogical warefare was perpetrated by Lord Jeffery Amherst of the British Army in colonial times. Amherst sent smallpox infected blankets to the Indian tribes he was trying to subdue in order to spread that disease among his adverseries.

[Geilt]

I don't want to get too far off topic but biological warfare goes WAY back.

Some armies used to catapult diseased corpses over walled fortifications 1000+ years ago. There are also records of contaminating food stores to poison the enemy.

[Norton]

On the Japanese, read The Rape of Naking (If you can stomach it )
That was the regular Japanese Army, not some special unit like the SS or NKVD. They had no organised death camp set up like the Nazis.
They didn't need them.
But the obtained the same results with the 'Three All' program.
Take All
Burn All
Kill All
You could add Rape all, before the kill all part

For Germany, I think the score was settled. Their cities were turned into ashes and rubble. The rest of the country was beaten to a pulp. Possibly 100000 german civilians were killed all over Eastern Europe by angry civilians bent on revenge. It was cut in two for over 40 years with a cruel Russian occupation and communist puppet goverment. I think most of us on this board knew what happened when the Red Army entered Germany.. Right?

Are Germans anymore to blame than Russians who lived and served under the bloody Stalin?
How many did he have killed, worked to death or starved?
5 million 8 million 10 million, 20 million ?

We still don't know

Are the Chinese who lived and served under the bloody dictatorship of Mao guilty of his murderous rein?
How many did he have killed, worked to death or starved 10 million, 20 million?

Cambodians who lived under Pol Pot, was it their fault.. I mean they went along with what the boss ordered. Right?

Thats the thing about living under Nazis, Communists and the like minded. You got to do what the boss says or you are in the camp, your family killed or worked to death.
It's easy to look back to 1932 and say .. Hey you people over there in Germany should have never let Hitler and the Nazis take over, never let him start the war. Never let him take your guns, never let him turn the schools in to proganda mills, Just say no when the Nazi started hauling people out of their houses to those death camps. People did say no and they were the first ones to get a bullet.
I think alot of this is flagulation from the left, try an open a museum about the horrors of the former Communist East German Goverment and see how far that goes.
They will say ''hey the Cold War is over just let sleepng dogs lie''.

Well thats my rant for the week.

[SteelCore]

Words to remember about any revolution, any time, any place. Resistance isn't futile, but it is paid in blood up front.

97th, lemme get with my dad and I'll see if I can dig up more info on his outfit...and on the Cold War stuff. (Yes, you to are prolly a VFW...and dinn't even know it!

He told me a bit about the operatio in the 3-section crypto trailers there, and about the U-2 going down and them picking up that transmission...:America: