Ill. school shooting/cnn

[jef1911a1]

Want to see why America is failing? Just go to CNN.com and read the comments concerning the article on the latest "gun free zone" nightmare. Also, any one notice that almost all of these killers are on drugs?

[xernex]

Somehow what really scares me in all of this is what would happen if guns were banned? We all know pretty well any criminal that wanted one bad enough would get one, but what about the other criminals who arent as smart, or possibly are insane... I worry that they would adopt more tactics from terrorists. I fear that we'd more likely see people using IED's than guns for situations like this... after all the knowledge for such devices is so available online that its not even funny.

just my .02

[nowhereman]

Somehow what really scares me in all of this is what would happen if guns were banned? We all know pretty well any criminal that wanted one bad enough would get one, but what about the other criminals who arent as smart, or possibly are insane... I worry that they would adopt more tactics from terrorists. I fear that we'd more likely see people using IED's than guns for situations like this... after all the knowledge for such devices is so available online that its not even funny.

just my .02

He probably would have aquired some combustable material from the hardware store, and built a friggin bomb from online instructions. These people want to kill period. The gun just makes it more personal to them "satisfaction" IMO... A bomb would have done more than just make holes in some of thes people who were only injured....

[xernex]

exactly, some how the anti-gun people never bring this up though.. I've been reading comments all night about how this is problem with guns, and violent video games... I've got about 25 guns now... and a massive collection of violent games...neither of which have ever told me to kill anyone... Its amazing what the public latches onto as scapegoats. I guess its easier than laying the blame on real issues.

[GearHD]

Want to see why America is failing? Just go to CNN.com and read the comments concerning the article on the latest "gun free zone" nightmare. Also, any one notice that almost all of these killers are on drugs?

No, the reason why America's failing is due to our education system. When only 6% of High School Grads & 23% of College Grads can point out where the Middle East is on a map (That's labeled!), It's no wonder that the mass population believes that guns kill people.

[SSwee]

I've had high school grads work for me that could not read simple directions to a job site. I tell you the movie Idiocracy was supposed to be a comedy but the scary thing about it is that there is more truth to it than most want to admit.
SS

[rustypirate]

This is not going to be easy, but here goes.....

I spent two days this week attending a parole hearing for a killer.

This man killed a 13 year old girl that interrupted him robbing her home.

This man was 17 years old at the time and still in high school.

At the time he murdered the girl he did not use a gun, Instead he knocked her unconcious with a coffe pot, then used 5 different bucher knives from the girl's own kitchen to stab her in the back multiple times, breaking off several in her body. When that did not complete the job he tried to suffocate her by jamming paper towels down her throat. The man also tried to strangle the girl with an electirc cord. In final desperation, the man crushed the girl's skull with a heavy coffee percolater.

The girl in this encounter was one of my Aunts, and she was killed in 1971 by a young man that lived in the house across the street.

The point I am trying to make here is that killers will use ANYTHING that they get their hands on.

[DAA1]

But part of the problem is the liberal left and all the folks who believe criminals have rights.

Folks it is a fact, criminals are NOT scared of what will happen to them, they have no fear of the death penalty or prison. We have a very lax and forgiving justice system here in America.

One good concealed carry permit holder could have acted in this latest shooting, but guns are not allowed on campus, and the shooter more than likely knew this. Criminals commit crimes in conditions favorable to them, they ain't stupid.

If and when this country ever gets serious about crime and justice and criminals are scared and fear what will happen to them, we migh stand 1/2 a chance.

I see nothing wrong with capital punishement except it is not used often enough, nor is it violent enough to deter crime.

The criminal justice system cannot rehabilitate some criminals, there are those who just won't follow the laws of society no matter what you do to them. But we won't remove them from society other than by the use of prisons.

All this senseless violence is not senseless, it does not happen beacause of fate, it is in fact a very stern wake up call, one that has gone unheard time after time. The answer is not more gun control, but more folks taking an active part in reducing crime by getting and lawfully carrying firearms, so that when these things happen one person can make a difference.

But who is going to make that difference? In this country "not me" seems to be the answer, and criminals love that answer.

Bottom line.... one armed person taking action could have helped resolve that situation and eliminated or reduced the loss of life....

A bet that those who died and their familys would have liked to have taken, but most will just cry over how senseless and evil this was. Not realizing anything else.

[okie shooter]

The point I am trying to make here is that killers will use ANYTHING that they get their hands on.

I read at one time, the number one murder weapon in Hong Kong, is meat cleavers, since firearms are much harder to get your hands on. Thus there is much to be said, for your statement.

[jef1911a1]

When I made my post I was hoping to inspire some talk here on our-the U.S.-state of collapse socially. Of course CNN being what it is, like NPR, I was not surprised by the comments made by the sheeple there. It just breaks my heart that my once free country has become what it is. I really thank all who posted so far, and DAA1 really said what I was waiting for. Also the fact that for far too many years now we are being "trained" to accept the Big Brother solution to any and all problems, just let the Government take care of it, be it the police, social system, educational system, etc. Well, it sure is working well. It was not long ago the very thought that one day we would need police and metal detectors in a school, well, I know I'm preaching to the choir here, just got my feeling defeated for a while.

[pigpen]

I think a big problem is that criminals have too many rights. Sure, I think inocent till proven guilty is the way it should be. After being found guilty and put in prison, you should have to work your ass off. No TV, weight lifting, school. Maybe an hour or so per day to worship, but the rest of the time working & working and working.

Put em in tent citys guarded buy electrical fences, landmines & pissed off dudes with machine guns. Make em grow thier own food if they want to eat & give them all a bible to read.

Let out of jail all the non-violent drug offenders.(like pot dealers)





Then follow my 3 step plan on reducing prison populations:



















1. Murders: kill them

2. Rapist: kill them

3. Child molesters: kill them

[okie shooter]

1. Murders: kill them

2. Rapist: kill them

3. Child molesters: kill them

Sounds good on paper, but what happens when the system f**ks up, and you oops, kill some one who is innocent, Innocent folks are imprisoned, setenced to death and even excuted, it happens every day, you know it and I do too*, thus there needs to be a way to keep folks in prisons that need to be there. I am not a anti death penalty person, just some one that feels we need the system to protect the innocent, read below.

This isnt a issue of any of those thoughts any way, its the failings of the mental health system or maybe the overmedication of the mental health system and its effects on society, the killings that make national news would have very little effect by the steps you advoicate, how do you stop this guy, the VT shooter and most other spur of the moment mass murders? You going to get the mind readers to imprison folks for future crimes yet to be comitted. Hmmmmm sounds like a Tom Cruise movie.

As for criminals having rights, they have the same rights you and I do too, remember if you take away their rights you are taking away yours and mine too. You never know when something beyond your control could turn the tables on you or me.

* Look up Joyce Gilchrist in a web search, ask those convicted based on her expert testomony, and the families of those who were excuted and have no way out now, and those released due to her incompentance, but the DA and courts considered her an expert.

Read this article, see if number two on your list works now, Number one takes a big blow too for eleven folks here in my state.
http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,109568,00.html

Everyone here screamed over the Para man being dumped out of a wheelchair, well how does everyone feel about those that even had allibis and finally got evidance to get them selves cleared by the PD railroading and lies. Everyone says fire and sue the department for the para, how do you deal with loseing fifteen years of your life in prison, and for twelve years there was evidance from other labs questioning her ablity, but the department and system chose not to believe it.

[GearHD]

As I see it, our nation's education system is producing dumber grads so our jurors are getting dumber: IE : the OJ trial. Prosecutors today have to educate the jury before they can make their case.



It's a myth that criminals have more Rights than anyone else.

[jdowney]

From what I've read this time the shooter was decidedly not your typical nutso quasi-criminal looser. Sounds more like a guy whose meds went wrong ('course they don't tell you what the meds were for). Never a sniff of anti-social writing or behavior in his past, complete surprise to friends and professors. Just plain weird how he apparently flipped in the last couple weeks. One careful, rational person in the class, carrying legally or illegally could have saved a few lives. Instead we're likely to get a whole new set of regulations and bans of one kind or another.

[Nazgul]

Here here! to all comments...but did you here this story?
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080216/ap_on_re_us/drag_racing_deaths

Not trying to hijack the thread at all, but these idiots killed more people and of course there will be no "Social Outrage" and an attempt to restructure who we are as a country like the Illinois tragedy.

[okie shooter]

Here here! to all comments...but did you here this story?
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080216/ap_on_re_us/drag_racing_deaths

Not trying to hijack the thread at all, but these idiots killed more people and of course there will be no "Social Outrage" and an attempt to restructure who we are as a country like the Illinois tragedy.

I saw that and almost posted it to this or the other thread on this subject, Yes car accidents kill far more than firearms.

[pigpen]

Here here! to all comments...but did you here this story?
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080216/ap_on_re_us/drag_racing_deaths

Not trying to hijack the thread at all, but these idiots killed more people and of course there will be no "Social Outrage" and an attempt to restructure who we are as a country like the Illinois tragedy.

The leading cause of death in the world...



















life.

[okie shooter]

One careful, rational person in the class, carrying legally or illegally could have saved a few lives. Instead we're likely to get a whole new set of regulations and bans of one kind or another.

Everyone that is pro gun says that, but I really will not lie about my self, I am not always thinking of "if I had a gun and a shooter started how quick would I drop them". I really dont relish those who have to kill for any reason, noble or otherwise, you still as William Mummy says, "It's a hell of a thing, killin' a man. Take away all he's got, and all he's ever gonna have".

That nothing to be taken lightly.

[pigpen]

Everyone that is pro gun says that, but I really will not lie about my self, I am not always thinking of "if I had a gun and a shooter started how quick would I drop them". I really dont relish those who have to kill for any reason, noble or otherwise, you still as William Mummy says, "It's a hell of a thing, killin' a man. Take away all he's got, and all he's ever gonna have".

That nothing to be taken lightly.

Very true. I'm not licensed to carry and if I were it would do me no good in a "gun free zone".

I do know that if I had a gun and was in the same situation, I'd do what ever was required in order for me to make it home to see my kids.

[nijwnfi]

As far as CC goes, opinions differ. Personally, I carry to defend myself and family. Tough call whether I'd run to the other end of a mall or wherever, to try and take out a shooter. What if you get the guy only to be shot yourself by an overzealous policeman, or another person coming to help? A lot of ifs here. I get me and mine to safety first. I am not a protector of the unprepared.

[Allwater]

I've had my ccl since the day (well, the day after, actually) I turned 21. I carry "most" of the time - depends on where I'm going.

But then, when I really think about it - that's on weekends only - I work all week and that's a "gun free zone" - and there's the school functions I attend for my son and daughter - yep, more "gun free zones" - oh, and I need to stop by the post office (don't even think of it on federal property!!!) and oh, I have to make a deposit at the bank (ever read that little sign on the front door?) And then there's major sporting events and concerts - yep, you guessed it - and...

So basically, I'm legal to carry - in all the OTHER places I go... like the grocery store and the mall. yippee!

It just seems crazy that here I am, a "legal-begal", straight as an arrow, not one mark on my record, able to make clear decisions that could save lives if needed (along with being a damn fine shot if I do say so myself) - and I'M THE ONE WORRIED ABOUT BREAKING THE LAW...

so... to protect myself and my family, maybe I need to start "bending" the rules...

That particular "gun free zone" didn't seem to stop him, now did it? What harm would my holstered and concealed weapon cause???

- makes you think, eh?

[nowhereman]

I carry to protect myself and loved ones.... In these situations I would most likely protect myself and maybe more. Dueling it out with the shooter "may" but most likely not be an option. I will leave the police to do there jobs. I do have a real fear of being shot by the cops by accident. I have noticed that most LEO's believe anyone with a gun is a threat to them... It really depends on the situation. I'm not going to take long range shots at the shooter w/ my Kel Tec .32.... A fast point blank to the head if circumstances allow maybe.... I do know one thing, the Brady campaign's arguement against school staff and student having the right to conceal a firearm is just ignorant.

[Norton]

Let out of jail all the non-violent drug offenders.(like pot dealers)





Then follow my 3 step plan on reducing prison populations:



















1. Murders: kill them

2. Rapist: kill them

3. Child molesters: kill them


Perfect plan..

But I would also like to see the bad check writers, non support paying types to be picking up trash along hi-ways and bi-ways under
"Boss King's" direction. (Preferably wearing a frown) Rather than be behind bars being the prey for real harden criminals. When we send minor drug offenders to prison we get them raped or turned into real criminals.

[pigpen]

Perfect plan..

But I would also like to see the bad check writers, non support paying types to be picking up trash along hi-ways and bi-ways under
"Boss King's" direction. (Preferably wearing a frown) Rather than be behind bars being the prey for real harden criminals. When we send minor drug offenders to prison we get them raped or turned into real criminals.

Anyone caught having prison sex would be castrated.