Recoil Advice Needed.

[LCPL 4]

Went out to the levee this weekend for some plinking. Been awhile since I shot the CETME (b.w.) so decided to bring her along. Went through about 500 rounds of .22lr, and another hundred 7.62 through the ak. Then to finish the day off I pulled the CETME out and was going to go through about 100 on her. First round I forgot to place on some ear protection. That took me one month closer to deafness. Was set up on bench using the g3 bipod for most part. The next 40 or so rounds turned my shoulder into hamburger. Since she was taken out last I've changed the scope mount to a low profile (doesn't bind anywhere) and put on a new stiffer recoil spring. Bolt gap is on the low end at .07 I think is was posted before that the lower the gap the larger the recoil? Any thoughts? Anyone with similar gap and experience? Can the recoil pad off a wood buttstock replace the plastic bw one? Is LCPL 4 just a wuss? I do not remember her being the much of a b%tch from previously but this is probably the 5th time she's been out and about the last two years and the second or so on bench.

[cimmaronkid]

First off, does it have a ground bolt and is the gap actual or "artificial"? If everything is correct there, then go to E&L web site. They have what you are looking for, but it shouldn't recoil that hard.

[nevada]

OK, whats E&L?

[LCPL 4]

Bolt is not ground. The bolt carrier is not binding in the cocking tube.

[cimmaronkid]

www.elmfg.com

They make a slip on pad that works well and also a brass catcher if you reload. Might want to check your bolt buffer in the butt stock and replace the old rubber with a new buffer. Here is another site for that.

http://www.blackjackbuffers.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=65&products_id=187

Hope those help. Also, a HK 21 rubber pad should fit your plastic furniture is you are looking for a more factory look.

[jfowl31]

Ive always thought that the lower the bolt gap (as long as its in spec) the lower the recoil.

It makes sense to me... if the gap is lower, it takes longer for the bolt to unlock and therefor, the bolt wont slam into the buffer as hard... with a higher gap, the bolt isnt "as far" into battery, and will unlock easier thus making it fly back with more pressure, and causing more recoil...

I could be off there though, but its what I always read and gathered.

I suppose the bolt being more locked up with a low bolt gap could mean that the pressures get a bit higher in the chamber and cause more recoil, but it seems like the recoil I feel comes from the bolt hitting the buffer. Thats why when you change the buffer, the recoil goes down. Again, could be wrong, but it makes sense to me.

anybody got a link to a HK 21 rubber buttpad that is reasonably priced? Id like to pick one of those up as I shoot primarily with HK furniture installed.

[cimmaronkid]

http://www.hkspecialist.net/stocks.htm

About half way down the page and you will find them.

[jfowl31]

the only pad I see there is... "HK THICK RUBBER BUTTPAD EXT FOR ALL A2 STOCK 223/308 $55.00" Is that the one?

[cimmaronkid]

That's the one. Nice pad too.

[texlurch]

All I can say about low bolt gap versus recoil is from mine.
At .004 it kicked like a bolt action, and wouldn't cycle half the time. The recoil isn't from the increased force of hitting the buffer, it is from the bolt not unlocking soon enough; at least in my case.
Just going from .003-004 to .007 made it a joy to shoot. My G3 at .014 is like a powder puff, even with the hard plastic collapsible butt.

[LCPL 4]

Figures. If I remember correctly, I think I started out with .012 and she finally settled down to .007 after multiple cleanings and firing the first 140 rounds or so. Thanks for the suggestions everyone. I'll look at the buttstock again but it looks like my first priority will be to get the gap higher and then go from there.

[97th Signalman]

I have no idea whether more or less bolt gap gives more or less recoil. I can tell you this, my bolt gap is .009" and the recoil is quite mild...just the typical push rather than a thump. Have you also checked for the recommended .020" clearence between the cocking piece and the end of the bolt carrier. If there is interference there you can get a false bolt gap indication.

There are rubber recoil pads availabe for woodstocks. I bought one from Wild Bill for ten bucks plus shipping.

http://www.wildbillcody.com/

[SteelCore]

Grow stronger!

Also, shoot the heaviest kicking guns first, then follow with the milder rounds. After a day of shooting, that would feel like a kick.

The best way to reduce _felt_ recoil in a CETME is to....get a Mosin and fire about 20 thru that first! Heeehee!

Seriously, if the BG falls lower, close to the low end of the tolerance the unlocking timing is off, just as if the BG were on the high side. I can't rememeber which it is, toos late, or too early in the cycle if the BG is below the low #, but I know that getting the BG somewhere in the middle range seems to make mine much more comfy. When mine dropped to .009, I thit dang! that's kickin! I got the thang back up to .012, and it si smooth, like chocolate.

[jfowl31]

Lurch... maybe the .003-.004 gap you were getting was actually "0" on your rifle. A lot of guys have posted that their rifles bottom out at .003-.004 because the walls of the tunnion wont let it go further than that.

Im sure that recoil could get large with a lower than spec bolt gap, but it seems logical to me... weird eh?

Why else would the PSG and the other sniper variations have new BUFFERS to reduce recoil not special locking pieces. I know when I got my rifle, I had a low BG... down on the lower end, but I cant remember where. I put +4's in there, and the gap went up, as did the recoil a bit. So I run it with the +0's and a low bolt gap, but still in spec, and everything just feels perfectly timed, and the recoil is incredibly mild.

[-COK-]

Figures. If I remember correctly, I think I started out with .012 and she finally settled down to .007 after multiple cleanings and firing the first 140 rounds or so. Thanks for the suggestions everyone. I'll look at the buttstock again but it looks like my first priority will be to get the gap higher and then go from there.


yeah man, like the folks are saying....

if you dropped from .012 to .007, there might be a hidden issue somewhere.

most posts i recall reading say ya only drop one or two thou
during break-in/settling.

(ETA: after HUNDREDS of rounds, not just 140.)

dropping 5 thou is a bit much.......

dont be shy about those new buffers either. (OEM type)
i hear good things about them.
mine were in good shape, but thats my next purchase.
that and a G3 recoil spring.

alot of folks say a new spring works wonders too.

(FWIW, im at .0115. (plus fours/new LP/unground bolt)
its a powder-puff compared to my FR-8)

[Grasshopper]

Hey, lets ask uncle Perro.
Hey Uncle Perro, is there some sort of a pull guage to determine what the pull is (or something)?
My thinking....? There is a certain point when the rollers go--- and the bolt goes back. Some pointie head knows this.
If we can do a torque test for roller lock dis-engagement we might be able to make a "laymens" roller test with a tourque wrench. I don't have a wrench here but I know where I can buy one, that is if i can purchase a proper tool to measure roller pull resistance.

Errr, or something?:builder:

[jfowl31]

mines a powder-puff compared to every other rifle I own except my 22's.

Less than mild 22-250 loads... I think thats the softest recoiling gun I have.

[-COK-]

mines a powder-puff compared to every other rifle I own except my 22's.

Less than mild 22-250 loads... I think thats the softest recoiling gun I have.


RGR that brother, and it pushing a great big BB out the busy end too!

[LCPL 4]

New full bolt carrier assembly ordered as per link posted in the wanted to buy section. Replaced the recoil spring with a new g3 spring from Robert not that long ago. Near .22 recoil? I wish. Still have a sore spot. No noticeable bruising but it felt like it would. Rub some dirt on it and move on I quess.

[jfowl31]

How Ive compared it before to people is it feels something like a 204 or some other small varmint round... Mine recoils less than a single shot Rossi 223.

Feels a lot like a muzzle loader to me when its timed right... more of a push than a pop ya know. I can see my impacts through the scope when shooting prone.