I know that this has been beat to death...

[Smokehouse69]

over on AR15.COM, but what do you guys think of building an AR from one of the Blackthorne Products uppers? Apparently Blackthorne is the newest reincarnation of Hesse/Vulcan firearms, who did not have the best rep for quality...

[kpd007]

If that if the place that sells "seconds" then there have been some positive reviews of their stuff on Arfcom. I stay away because of their Joeken (or is it Vulcan?) connections.

[KnobCreek]

Well, you can't blame the folks over at ARFCOM for beating this to death. Apparently, the new folks that have had very little experience with Hesse are wanting to assemble ARs using their parts. Well, I understand wanting to build something on a tight budget, but sacrificing quality??? Come on now; these are toys that you hold against your cheeks when you pull the trigger.

[Seattlefungus]

I don't know if they are Hesse related, but I know they distrubute for Vulcan Arms. I did buy some IMI Galil parts from them. But they are not Vulcan made, They are IMI and look great. Blackthore seems like a husband/wife operation. During the snow storms, they had trouble keeping up with orders and answering the phone. They are both addressed out of St Paul MN...

[kpd007]

Yeah you're right Seattle, they are out of St Paul. The address if similar to the Vulcan one. It might even be the same, but I can't be certain of that. Which upper you gonna buy smokehouse?

[Seattlefungus]

I would never cut corners on a AR... I've built alot of them and prefer RockRiver or Bushmaster. Tho I gotta say Olympic Arms seems to be making a quality comeback....

[Smokehouse69]

Yeah you're right Seattle, they are out of St Paul. The address if similar to the Vulcan one. It might even be the same, but I can't be certain of that. Which upper you gonna buy smokehouse?

Probably none of them, my son is looking for an AR to build, I am going to recommend that he stay away from Blackthorne until some info comes in on them.

[Seattlefungus]

I've had nothing but good dealing with the folks at RB Precision... Look over http://www.rbprecision.com/id97.htm I got a Rockriver M4 kit less than dealer cost from them last year. It came with everything minus the lower receiver. All the trigger parts, buttstock springs, detents. Everything... I just check their site and they are selling the kit for AR4001 CAR A4 Complete Rifle Kit $590.00... I bought the Rock River receiver for 130 and had a complete rifle. And you don't need an FFL for the kit, only the receiver.

[KnobCreek]

There are alot of other vendors that offer better quality components, have a greater reputation in the industry and are not asking much more than what Hesse/Blackthorne is asking. I, personally, tend to use Rock River Arms and Bushmaster as well...even have a nice Oly PCR-1 that I have no complaints on.

[KnobCreek]

Probably none of them, my son is looking for an AR to build, I am going to recommend that he stay away from Blackthorne until some info comes in on them.

Have you tried http://www.del-ton.com ? They have a very competitive asking price on their kits.

[8675309]

Have you tried http://www.del-ton.com ? They have a very competitive asking price on their kits.

Here's a second on the Del-ton kits.

[woofert]

Hay all,

I got a question on how to I.D. the manufacturer of the different parts on an AR.

All the lowers I’ve seen have the manufacturer name/logo on the mag well.

I can’t recall ever seeing any manufacturers name/logo on any uppers, barrels, or bolts.

So how would you know who made what on an assembled rifle or in a parts kit?

If you can't I.D. the manufacturer, what would you look for in reguards to quality?

:confused:

Woofert

[weasel_master]

I think my barrel is stamped BM. I never really checked to see how everything was marked though.

[8675309]

Yep, at the very least the barrel is marked.

[KnobCreek]

Not necessarily; I've got several Wilson barrels that have no markings on them. I know Sherluk and a couple of my RRA rifles have no markings on them.

[Alaskagrown]

LMT and Mega both mark their uppers.

[KnobCreek]

There are about a dozen or so manufacturers of lowers. These companies manufacture the lowers for the ones listed next to them

LMT = LMT, Lauer, DS Arms, PWA, Eagle, Knights Armament, Barrett
CMT = Stag, RRA, High Standard, Noveske, (new) Century, Global Tactical, CLE, S&W, MGI, Wilson Tactical, Grenadier Precision, Colt
LAR = LAR, Bushmaster, Ameetech, DPMS, CMMG, Double Star, Fulton
JVP = Double Star, LRB
MMS = Mega, GSE, Dalphon, POF, Alexander Arms,
Olympic = Olympic, SGW, Tromix, Palmetto, Dalphon, Frankford, (old) Century
Sun Devil = Sun Devil forged billet receivers
Superior = Superior Arms

So, as you can see, even though they maybe marked differently, alot of the lowers tend to have the same quality. In this scenario, a Stag lower is basically the same as a RRA lower, but can be had for a few less dollars. I tend to focus on the upper and BCG quality more and I'll try and gather up some info on who makes what, what markings they use, etc., etc.

[Alaskagrown]

Charlie - Superior is making Lauer lowers now the change happened recently within the last month according to Lauer

[KnobCreek]

Will make a note of that...

Just placed an order for 3 Double Star lowers through Kiser Munnitions out of Georgia. Like I said, I've got a whole bunch of uppers waiting on lowers and I want to be all set in case of another AWB.

[gunbunny]

The reward($ saved) is not worth the risk(possible damaged body parts) for me. If/when these guys acquire a reputation for quality, then I'll buy from them. But until then, I'll pay a little bit more for a sure thing.

[wulf50guy]

Knobcreek,
Superior arms also make runs of lowers for Defensive Edge technologies for their SLR-15's with DE's logo on them.
I bought 2 of them on a Custom lower run for ar15armory.

[KnobCreek]

Thank you, I'll update my list as I get the information.

[Alaskagrown]

Will make a note of that...

Just placed an order for 3 Double Star lowers through Kiser Munnitions out of Georgia. Like I said, I've got a whole bunch of uppers waiting on lowers and I want to be all set in case of another AWB.
I am going to be getting 3-6 lowers from them as well

[KnobCreek]

So far, the Double Star lowers that I received all look great. The finish on them match the finish on both my Bushies and RRAs, so I am a happy camper. I just completed the second assembly of the day and was tempted to complete the third, but I wanted to save that one for a rainy day. Guess what? There's rain in tomorrow's forecast... :wave: