which AK?

[woofert]

O.K. crew......which AK?

I've never owned one but I'm thinking of getting one.

do I want the 7.62 or the 5.45?

I'm seeing a lot of steel cased ammo, what should I use, what should I stay away from?

who makes the least "monkeyed with" assemblied model?

If I decide to build one, who has the better kits and where do you get US parts?

Woofert

[pjm204]

I'd say build one. If you can get access to a flat bending jig, go that route, its relatively simple. If not either go with a blank or a 100% receiver. If you use a 100%, get a DCI from Nodakspud, they seem to be the best. As for a kit, DPHarms.com, copesdist.com, or gunbroker have kits. I've only built on Romanian Kits but they have all been in very good condition, even the ones labeled rusty. All you will need is your receiver, rivets, parts kit, Tapco G2 FCG, US pistol grip, and US muzzle break. Some helpful tools are a pair of modified bolt cutters turned rivet squeezers, a dremel, and a 12 ton press. Hope that helps.

There is alot of good info on www.gunsgutsandgod.com

If you do decide to buy one, look at www.globaltrades.com www.redstickarms.com or atlanticarms.com
Right now 5.45 is a bit cheaper than 7.62 if that matters.

[nalioth]

I'd say to get one in .223 Rem / 5.56 Nato. InterOrdnance (http://www.interordnance.com) is supposed to be selling 5.56 caliber AKs very soon. Their MSRP aint bad, either.

http://www.gunco.net/gallery/data/500/medium/IO_AK_Rifles.jpg
http://www.gunco.net/gallery/data/500/medium/Closeup_of_STG940_Rifle.jpg

You can also keep an eye out for a Sar-3 (http://www.gunsnet.net/Linx310/model.htm#sar3) or a Wasr-3 (http://www.gunsnet.net/Linx310/model.htm#wasr3).

You'll have the reliability of an AK and the ability to feed it with domestically produced ammo.

By all means, build one in 7.62x39 and/or 5.45x39. The East has stopped using 5.45x39, so surplus will eventually dry up on this caliber. They have gone back to using 7.62x39 or switched to 5.56 Nato.

[Simon]

Steel cased ammo is fine. Wolf works good.

I would consider tracking down a Yugo underfolder or one of the nicer companies (like Arsenal, Global Trades, or a VEPR) right now. If the AK suppliers are getting hit as hard as the AR suppliers you might have a problem getting build parts (people on arfcom are panicking and buying up tons of crap like AR15 receivers).

If you decide to build one, you can get compliance parts at Tapco, DPH Arms, AK-Builder.com, Global Trades, and tons more places I'm forgetting. Tapco has trigger groups and pistol grips, DPH and AK-Builder have muzzle devices and sometimes Tapco stuff so you don't have to order from 2-3 places. Both DPH and AK-Builder have been very good to me. AK-Builder also has the jigs you'll need, you'll need a press from Harbor Freight, and you'll need a receiver (Nodakspud has the nice DCIs).

I have no clue who has good kits anymore.

[okie shooter]

For a first ak, I would recomend you get the more common caliber 7.62x39, especally if you have a sks already, common ammo. The 5.45x39 is slightly more exotic, and not found everywhere, you will either have to mail order, go to large mil surplus gun dealers or gun shows for the ammo. I would love to get another 5.56x45(223) though, I have a saiga but want to get an already built high cap rifle.

[k98k792]

Here is a list of Vendors that sell complete rifles.
http://www.militaryfirearm.com/Forum/showthread.php?t=641]

Here is list of vendors selling parts and part kits.
http://www.militaryfirearm.com/Forum/showthread.php?t=643

You can also,buy a kit and reciever and have it built.
http://www.militaryfirearm.com/Forum/showthread.php?t=426

You should be able to find anything you want with those links.

I am going to suggest a Polish Underfolder in 7.62x 39.

[nalioth]

I forgot all about Saiga rifles. They are made in the Itzmash Arms factory (right along side the AK-100 series rifles). These are the best deal going for AK type rifles now. They are basically AK-100 series rifles in sporting clothes. If you modify it to take high-capacity mags, you shouldn't have to worry about 922r (you'll only have one 'evil feature').

These are running less than $275 for a brand new AK type rifle. They come in 7.62x29 and 5.56 Nato for this price. All Saigas come with a scope mounting rail, too.

[okie shooter]

I forgot all about Saiga rifles. They are made in the Itzmash Arms factory (right along side the AK-100 series rifles). These are the best deal going for AK type rifles now. They are basically AK-100 series rifles in sporting clothes. If you modify it to take high-capacity mags, you shouldn't have to worry about 922r (you'll only have one 'evil feature').

These are running less than $275 for a brand new AK type rifle. They come in 7.62x29 and 5.56 Nato for this price. All Saigas come with a scope mounting rail, too.

If you decide to go with evil features(there is some discussion if just high cap mags make it have to go to 922r also, since thats modification to the rifle but there is not a difinitive anwser to that one) but the conversion is not that hard, as saigas have fewer parts, as long as the grip you add is us made, you can add the fcg, and gas piston to make it compliant. Just dont add a non us made muzzle device.(double check your sources as to compliance I am going off of memory)

[nalioth]

Okie, the 922r is about "importation".

They do manufacture 30 round Saiga magazines, and these are available in this country. I'm not seeing how modifying your Saiga to use cheaper high caps is gonna put you into 922r territory, IF that is all you modify.

[okie shooter]

Naloith, If that were the case why would you as the manufacturer of a ak from a kit, if you are the flat bender have to worry aobut 922r if its just import. It defines the rifle as being us made, thus why a wasr and saiga can become us made and get around the 922r limitations. I am thinking this is a grey area as I have never read a difinitive ruleing from atf on this, but just because some one makes a high cap saiga mag overseas, the importer no longer imports them. I am imagineing that its due to if there were high cap mags available from them it might get aft to change the importablity of the rifles as double stacks, and force them to go to single stack like the wasr, hungarian, and some of the maadis of the ninties.

Just recomending that anyone converting an saiga to take a standard ak mag investigate the ramifactions of the conversion.

[SteelCore]

Romainian AK....they're stil around 350USD, and even it it has CAI written on the receiver, no matter--the romAKs are 'sporterized' as is from Romania (i.e., don't have a US receiver, but the original romanian one), all the monkeys do is widen the single-stack magwell for a double stack AK mag (and weld little rails on the receiver to do what the dimples on most AK frames do--snug up the fit of the mag in the well). With that in mind, and knowing that about all other AKs get a new US receiver,

Having fired romainian, yugo UF, and Saiga AKs, I'd say the Romaian has the most bang fer yer buck.

THen try a build!

[nalioth]

Okie, i was reading 1989 ATF report (http://www.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs.cmu.edu/user/wbardwel/public/nfalist/atf_1989_report.txt)and this (http://sailorcurt.blogspot.com/2007/02/sks-legal-issues.html)

Which has led me to state:

1: the Saiga is not restricted from importation (like AKs are).

2: the saiga fails this test:
That a firearm is designed and sold with a large capacity magazine, e.g., 20-30 rounds, is a factor to be considered in determining whether a firearm is a semiautomatic assault rifle.

Moreover, the Saiga has NONE of the 'evil features' listed on that ATF document (http://www.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs.cmu.edu/user/wbardwel/public/nfalist/atf_1989_report.txt), and having a high capacity magazine capability does not make the Saiga "a semiautomatic assault rifle" (which would fall under the 922r).

Now, when you get on your go-hat and get to converting the Saiga back to it's parents (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AK-103) appearance (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AK-104) (with nasty evil ol' flash hider, pistol grip, bayonet lug, folding stock, etc, you DO run afoul of the law, since you now have 'evil' features on an 'imported' rifle.

[okie shooter]

Okie, i was reading 1989 ATF report (http://www.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs.cmu.edu/user/wbardwel/public/nfalist/atf_1989_report.txt)and this (http://sailorcurt.blogspot.com/2007/02/sks-legal-issues.html)

Which has led me to state:

1: the Saiga is not restricted from importation (like AKs are).

2: the saiga fails this test:

Moreover, the Saiga has NONE of the 'evil features' listed on that ATF document (http://www.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs.cmu.edu/user/wbardwel/public/nfalist/atf_1989_report.txt), and having a high capacity magazine capability does not make the Saiga "a semiautomatic assault rifle" (which would fall under the 922r).

Now, when you get on your go-hat and get to converting the Saiga back to it's parents (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AK-103) appearance (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AK-104) (with nasty evil ol' flash hider, pistol grip, bayonet lug, folding stock, etc, you DO run afoul of the law, since you now have 'evil' features on an 'imported' rifle.

I will have to look for it, but when that report was writen saigas were not even being made for the us export market. I believe that they were specifally added to be allowed for import by name. That said it was due to the fact from the factory they cannot fit an ak magazine and are in sporting configuration. There are simular rifles on that list that are now banned from import like the valmet hunter, which looks just like a saiga in some ways.

That said the saiga is a good rifle, easier than doing a build for sure, and if you do the conversion for the ak look its very easy to do with the good instructions on the web out there.

[CrossFire]

I recently got my first AKs, a pair of Yugo underfolders and have been pretty impressed with them. I have mounted a 42mm red dot on an Ultimak gas tube mount that has worked out really well. They have functioned and performed far better than I had expected them to.

[Otis61]

I have a saiga too. And on the barrel its stamped (RUSSIAN AMERICAN ARMORY COMPANY SCOTTSBERG,IN). So does that mean that some parts may be US made?

[nalioth]

I have a saiga too. And on the barrel its stamped (RUSSIAN AMERICAN ARMORY COMPANY SCOTTSBERG,IN). So does that mean that some parts may be US made?
No, that is the importers name and address. There are no US parts in an unmolested Saiga.

[hunter_la5]

a pair of Yugo underfolders

+1 on the yugo underfolders, they are awesome. I love mine. however, they will cost a bit more than the regular WASR's, but i think it's worth it