FAL vs CETME

[ctdemolay0405]

now, i've been looking, and i cant find a thread that is what i'm looking for (or elsewhere online thats nice to read/look at, etc.) anyways...

What are the pros and cons of the FAL and CETME (not the military issue ones, the ones we can actually have in the US without the ATF breathing down our necks - the semi-autos)

[dpoe]

I don't know much about CETMEs but from what I've seen, it looks like they take some more TLC to get working well.

[G]

Just have to say you must have both!

[rifleman]

have a cetme and love it, works well even when dirty, but i really want a FAL as well, i want my cake and eat it to dammit

[cbear]

I don't own a FAL, but I am planning on having one built. From what I've read:

CETME
+No Gas system
+Usually cheaper, at least in the past
+Cheap G3 Mags
-NATO spec brass highly recommended
-Harder to clean

FAL
+More varieties to choose from.
+Easier to clean.
+/-Adjustable gas system
-Should pay attention if it's a metric, inch, or combination pattern rifle. Combinations were made by builders mixing what parts they had on hand.

Instead of a CETME, I'd look for a G3 clone, as internal parts are more readily available, and I think the rear site is nicer.

[brewskzilla]

FAL: more accurate at longer distances. (Milled receiver.)
more varieties, and more applications, due to the accuracy factor.
Better resale value.
Roger Moore used one, making it extra sexy.

CETME: Cheaper.
Once you get it running right, it's good forever, for the most part.
Cheaper.
Mags more available.
Cheaper.
Replacement parts more available.
Did I mention cheaper?

The FAL is a better rifle. What most of you want to know is which is better: the FAL or the H&K. That is a closer race for supremacy. The CETME, where it IS a western European 7.62 NATO main battle rifle, is not, exactly, a Ferrari. It's more like a Corvette. Nicer than the Camaro and Firebird, but there are much nicer sport coups out there...

[brewskzilla]

But dont let that discourage you. I have a CETME, and it's my favorite! I really dont know why, it just is. Hell, look at my avatar!

[rifleman]

southpark?

[Player]

I've owned a CETME and I have 2 FAL's right now

not a fan of the CETME/G3/HK system at all. Dirty as ever. takes 20x more cleaning stuff to clean it up... sure you can say it works when it's dirty but so will the FAL. Remember the legend of the 'Ol Dirty on FALfiles? STG58 with over 10,000 rounds w/ one clean... being thrown into a mud puddle. the piston spring broke and the owner pulled it, it just kept on working. It got to the point that it was cleaning itself

the adjustable gas system is genious. you can shoot lower powered loads as well as hotter loads through it. what's not to love about that?

all that AND you don't have to deal with tweaking a CAI rifle until it decides to put roller dents in that sheet metal receiver


the JLD's and HK's are better, but i'm still not that much of a fan of the delayed roller rifles. Just takes too damn long to clean and you can't shoot civilian shells out of it. Even if you do, half of them will end up looking like a bridge troll tried to eat them... FAL's do ding shells up, but not that severe.


one thing is, the CETME/G3 *might* be a little more accurate, but hey, my FAL's both shoot 2MOA. I think for a battle rifle that's great already. If I need to pick hairs I'll leave that to my PBR or M14

two words, five letters: FN FAL (actually more like an acronym)

[Player]

oh and for this, i'll add
my favourite full sized FN FAL: British Commonwealth L1A1.
and for the shorty... the Para metric FAL.

[KMURPHY]

I cant wait to get an FAL. Which one....that is the question (many awesome flavors of FAL of which to choose from). I want to trade my CETME for a nice FAL kit or something so I could build an FAL.

[ctdemolay0405]

before i begin, i will say i want both, but i've been looking at CETMEs for a while, and never thought much of FALs but for some reason lately, they've been looking good!

so, i could go buy an IMBAL from, say, atlantic firearms (if they're a good company) and not have to worry about much unlike a cetme (probably CAI with my price ranges...) and have to work on it more?


i'll get both eventually. it just sucks that in my area, again, no folding stocks, bayonet mount, etc.... god i cant wait to move.. thats a common theme for me though

[wwIIBuff]

I have had 2 FAL's and 1 cetme, 1 FMP G3 and an HK 91. I prefer the 91 over the FAL, don't get me wrong I like the FAL but the 91 is the rifle for me. It fits me better then either FAL I have owned.

[jfowl31]

I'll put my vote in for the HK/Cetme rifles.

While i still want to own an FAL, They just don't do it for me.... but with that said, I have a 100% perfect out of the box Cetme that has a few thousand failure free rounds with $.50 mags. All the while shooting MOA out to 700 yards when I do my part.

I "over-paid" for mine at $650 a few years back, and I'm glad I did. Its my favorite rifle of any I have ever owned or shot. Replacement parts are available and cheap, though US made parts are not (this is rapidly changing though with people making and marketing their own).

CAI seems to have the bugs worked out on their new run of rifles, so don't put them out of your head just yet. All the new rifles are built right with good gaps, and all function nicely it seems now that they are actually "building" the rifles rather than just using worn out barrels still mated to trunnions from the demil process.

The MAIN reason I don't like the FAL more than a Cetme is how it points for me. I also can't stand the FAL sights. I think the Cetme and HK style rifle is a sexier looking gun, and easier to maneuver and point with, but that's all personal preference.

As far as cleaning goes...... I really don't know what all the fuss is about. I LOVE the fact that I don't have to clean gas pistons and gas tubes, and all I have to do is use a brush on the chamber (which I do on all rifles anyways as should everyone), wipe down the bolt and carrier, and run some patches through the bore and she runs like a top.

I put over 1000 rounds through my Cetme without a failure, and cleaned it because I'm anal retentive about it not because it ever even stuttered.

Just find someone near you and shoot both.

As far as the "investment" standpoint... mentioned earler and someone said the FAL was better in this category......... I have to disagree. Cetmes have just about doubled if not MORE than doubled in price in the last 3-4 years. FAL's did used to be cheaper than they are now, but they haven't doubled that quickly.

[ctdemolay0405]

well, this is all for not for me, the NRA-ILA just updated thier CT info, and i found other laws and such that do not allow for FAL type rifles, HK 91, 94, etc type rifles, etc, (in addition to the no AK 47 type). why do they think these are so dangerous. guess i'm not gunna buy any rifles this year... stick to pistols. those arnt too regulated like this.

[jfowl31]

well, this is all for not for me, the NRA-ILA just updated thier CT info, and i found other laws and such that do not allow for FAL type rifles, HK 91, 94, etc type rifles, etc, (in addition to the no AK 47 type). why do they think these are so dangerous. guess i'm not gunna buy any rifles this year... stick to pistols. those arnt too regulated like this.

Are AR type rifles on the list?

If they are, then I'd say your best bet is going to be buying an American milsurp weapon (Garand or 03) and then selling it to buy the rifle you want later on. The Garand would be a really fun rifle to play with in the meantime, and its guaranteed to go up in value, so if its not exactly what you want, you can sell it with ease and make back your money or get a profit to buy what you have wanted (whether FAL or G3/Cetme). Surely they don't ahve a ban on a Garand.

[KMURPHY]

You will LOVE an M-1....everybody does!

[ctdemolay0405]

ARs are... sorta, they can only have a fixed stock, no flash suppressor, hider, no bayo mount, etc. LAMEE

but yea, i do like the earlier Milsurp stuff too

[Player]

JFOWL
perhaps your CETME was a better built rifle than mine, but I had to clean it much much much much more than any other gas piston rifle i've ever owned, including my AK



20rds out of the delayed blowback and it's a carbon soot fest in the bolt/carrier area.

[Rampager]

Seems to me we just ran this same debate not long ago here.

I own them both and like them both. Both have +’s and -‘s. I like the looks of the HK style, but I like the gas piston in the FAL. Both are heavy, both shoot the same caliber, both are reasonably accurate in getting the same job done. Both are expensive as hell to shoot now.

I say collect them all…get a semi clone of the G3, Cetme, FAL and don't forget the great M14 to round out the .308 battle rifle collection. But to me it’s like that never ending AR vs AK debate it just goes on and on and on…they are both good so there can be no clearly defined winners.

[dpoe]

What Is Wrong With Connecticut?

[ctdemolay0405]

lots! lol. nothing but fixed stocks, anything with a detach mag can have a pistol grip, nothing else, basicly no bayo, no AKs, no CETMEs, no FALs, the list goes on and on.... and if you find a way around the rules, they're not really them at all, simplified sporterized ones (and thats fine for some people, i just dont like sporterized rifles)

[tumbleweed1002]

Sounds like a good reason to move, My cetme is a CIA and it has been perfect not a jam or fte one I love shooting it. I had a chance to get an imbal fal but after handling it decided it wasent for me.

[k98k792]

Poll added.

[ctdemolay0405]

there should be a "both" option!

[tony]

I had both before. I really liked both for different reasons also. My DSA STG58 was a sweet shooting rifle but it was heavier, uglier, and pointed weird to me. My HK91 kicked like a ******* mule but it was neater looking, lighter and felt better in hand. Before I knew about changing rollers, I sold the HK91 because it was very unpleasant to shoot. Then I sold the FAL because money was tight...now I want them both back:wink: live and learn

[k98k792]

there should be a "both" option!

No,it's tme to chose up sides. GET OFF THE FENCE! :2pistol:

[okie shooter]

there should be a "both" option!
No,it's tme to chose up sides. GET OFF THE FENCE! :2pistol:
Hes got a point here, you asked the question.

[ctdemolay0405]

haha, tuche....three-che even. i voted... with absolutly no experence or knowledge.... just like the vast majority of american voters!!

[Otis61]

haha, tuche....three-che even. i voted... with absolutly no experence or knowledge.... just like the vast majority of american voters!!

That is the American way. Right? :America:

I do like the adjustable gas system of my FAL, but my CETME is more accurate by about an inch at 100 yds. Although my FAL seems to tighten up the farther you out you go.

[okie shooter]

If we add both, why not add m-1a, saiga, and ar-10?

Both rifles have their good points and bad points, along with any military weapon adopted by any nation. Different strokes for different folks, I have one L1A1 type, two cetmes and a G-3 along with a saiga, and two M1a types, thus different types for me, none highly favored than any other.

[ctdemolay0405]

point taken!

[pigpen]

I took my cetme to the gun show today to try & sell it so I could buy an FN from my bro. I left it in the truck thinking that after I looked around @ the tables a bit I'd bring it in, walk around & maybe I'd get an offer. Well, the show sucked soooooo bad I didn't bother. The show was so bad there was not one person selling powder or primers. There was every AR configuration you could think of and oh yea, high prices. There is another show in Charleston in May so I might go there and try a again. I like my cetme & it's really accurate but I have always wanted an fn.

[Player]

how is the FN FAL loosing in the poll?!?!?

[ctdemolay0405]

well, this was formally a CETME forum.....

[nowhereman]

I took my cetme to the gun show today to try & sell it so I could buy an FN from my bro. I left it in the truck thinking that after I looked around @ the tables a bit I'd bring it in, walk around & maybe I'd get an offer. Well, the show sucked soooooo bad I didn't bother. The show was so bad there was not one person selling powder or primers. There was every AR configuration you could think of and oh yea, high prices. There is another show in Charleston in May so I might go there and try a again. I like my cetme & it's really accurate but I have always wanted an fn.

I might be right behind you Pen....

[Otis61]

I took my cetme to the gun show today to try & sell it so I could buy an FN from my bro. I left it in the truck thinking that after I looked around @ the tables a bit I'd bring it in, walk around & maybe I'd get an offer. Well, the show sucked soooooo bad I didn't bother. The show was so bad there was not one person selling powder or primers. There was every AR configuration you could think of and oh yea, high prices. There is another show in Charleston in May so I might go there and try a again. I like my cetme & it's really accurate but I have always wanted an fn.

I started reading your post, and I thought for sure you were gonna say you went back out to the truck, and the gun was stollen. That would suck.

[Templar]

I've owned a CETME and I have 2 FAL's right now

not a fan of the CETME/G3/HK system at all. Dirty as ever. takes 20x more cleaning stuff to clean it up... sure you can say it works when it's dirty but so will the FAL. Remember the legend of the 'Ol Dirty on FALfiles? STG58 with over 10,000 rounds w/ one clean... being thrown into a mud puddle. the piston spring broke and the owner pulled it, it just kept on working. It got to the point that it was cleaning itself

the adjustable gas system is genious. you can shoot lower powered loads as well as hotter loads through it. what's not to love about that?

all that AND you don't have to deal with tweaking a CAI rifle until it decides to put roller dents in that sheet metal receiver


the JLD's and HK's are better, but i'm still not that much of a fan of the delayed roller rifles. Just takes too damn long to clean and you can't shoot civilian shells out of it. Even if you do, half of them will end up looking like a bridge troll tried to eat them... FAL's do ding shells up, but not that severe.


one thing is, the CETME/G3 *might* be a little more accurate, but hey, my FAL's both shoot 2MOA. I think for a battle rifle that's great already. If I need to pick hairs I'll leave that to my PBR or M14

two words, five letters: FN FAL (actually more like an acronym)




What he said.

I've owned pre-1989 import ban examples of FAL's and HK roller lockers, and currently own a no-ban DSA and a Springfield SAR-3/8.

The FAL is superior in ergonomics, shootability, and maintenence. The TRUE HK/Springfield/PARS factory G3's or MARS imported CETME's might have an edge in reliablity, but it's slight.

The Germans wanted to keep the G1 (FAL) and only went with the CETME/G3 after Saive (head of FN and the designer of the FAL) told them to go pound sand when they asked for the rights to manufacture the rifle, something about invading his country twice in half a century and subjugating his workers.

If you buy a quality rifle of either variant, you should be happy.

To me (and I realize this will piss a lot of people off), that does NOT include a Century build.

[ctdemolay0405]

IMBAL is quality, right?



reason i ask is that i found one for 850 on atlantic firearms

[Templar]

IMBAL is quality, right?



reason i ask is that i found one for 850 on atlantic firearms

Imbel is a licensed manufacturer of the FAL, but the only FACTORY Imbels that were imported were the pre 1989 SAR-48 and post 1989 SAR-4800's from Springfield Armory.

The receivers were able to be imported until a few years ago, and people would build them up with parts kits.

Alot of the parts kits were Imbel manufactured FAL's that went to Africa and South America. Some were completely beat to ********, some just had a lot of external wear but were nice inside.

Have a link to the one Atlantic sells? Blaine at Atlantic is a good guy, if the rifle doesn't work, he'll make it right.

[dpoe]

Imbel stuff is good and that's pretty funny about Belgium not letting Germany have the rights to build the FALs haha

[Red Grizzly]

Had both, liked the FAL more, and that reason is the cocking lever on the cetme/hk's never did like those...

[tump]

fal just seems to be a better quality and more reliable. ended up stripping my cast cetme into pieces and selling it,it pi$$ed me off so bad.

[MAK2263]

I sold an excellent CETME to buy an FAL and it was a major mistake.The FAL wouldn't shoot milsurp ammo without jamming every 2nd or 3rd round.Sold that piece of junk and finally got a nice CETME that shoots really good.The FAL looked good but pretty just doesn't cut the mustard.

[Planning]

i have a few g-3's, cetmes, L1A1's and fal's. which do i like best?

i like them all, but if i have to choose only one it would be the fal.:airtight:

[brewskzilla]

I know my CETME is more of a picky eater. My SAIGA will eat anything, .308 or 7.62x51NATO, but that CETME has to have NATO, and really prefers steel cased ammo. Kind of pisses me off, because that stuff is getting harder to find. If I luck into a bunch of it, that retailer is going to have a high sales day.

[Templar]

Century has done a great dis-service.

They have made some of the most reliable rifles in the world jammomatics and soured people on specific designs.

[ctdemolay0405]

Imbel is a licensed manufacturer of the FAL, but the only FACTORY Imbels that were imported were the pre 1989 SAR-48 and post 1989 SAR-4800's from Springfield Armory.

The receivers were able to be imported until a few years ago, and people would build them up with parts kits.

Alot of the parts kits were Imbel manufactured FAL's that went to Africa and South America. Some were completely beat to ********, some just had a lot of external wear but were nice inside.

Have a link to the one Atlantic sells? Blaine at Atlantic is a good guy, if the rifle doesn't work, he'll make it right.

http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/programming/expand.asp?Prodid=479

here's that link you asked for. There was several others on there, one 50 dollars more... with no description on why it would be more/what the differences are

[Templar]

Those are built on Enterprise receivers, NOT my first or second or third choice for a receiver.

Some may be just fine, but they built up a very bad rep a few years ago.

Those are Imbel parts kits built on Enterprise receivers.

*edit*

I was about to launch into a long rant about Enterprise, as I had bought an Inch pattern receiver from them back in 2002 or so, and it looked worse than if a whole band of Century gunmonkeys had at it with chainsaws, but things might have changed.

I just read Mark Graham's report on the current generation of Enterprise receivers.

http://www.arizonaresponsesystems.com/


I honestly think that if you saved a little more money, and got the DSA, you'd have a better rifle. The DSA receivers are forged and machined to original blue prints, and they have an excellent working relationship with FN Herstal USA.

http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/programming/expand.asp?Prodid=389

[Otis61]

I know a lot of people don't like Entreprise. I just finished a build with one about a month and a half ago on an Imbel parts kit too. I didn't think it was that bad. This weekend I put a DSA scope mount on, and it fit with no troubles. So they can't be that far out of wack. The build went together easy too. The only thing I had to do was take a little off were the rounds come up from the mag on the bolt rails.

[leonidas]

I own a CETME and my dad owns a FAL. I love both rifles. Of course the FAL is much more accurate at longer distances but gotta love the CETME, it has an almost AK ability to keep shooting even when it's downright dirty. IMHO I think you need to own both, they are both great rifles for what they were built for. :2pistol:

[hunter_la5]

imho, I think a properly built FAL and a properly built CETME are more or less equals, and I'd be happy with either one. I prefer the CETME though just because I like the roller delayed blowback action.

on the enterprise receivers, my brother has an FAL built on an Enterprise receiver, and it has been less than reliable.

[KMURPHY]

Century has done a great dis-service.

They have made some of the most reliable rifles in the world jammomatics and soured people on specific designs.

You sir, are totally correct!



(But if it were not for the poor QC on Century's behalf, I may not have ever bothered to learn about the workings of firearms, thus never began to build anything, so I am kinda happy also.)

[ctdemolay0405]

a necessary evil, perhaps?

[fal_762x51]

gotta love the CETME, it has an almost AK ability to keep shooting even when it's downright dirty.


Two words: "Old Dirty."

I vote for the FAL over the Cetme, I love both of them, but the FAL is king.

[jfowl31]

Two words: "Old Dirty."

I vote for the FAL over the Cetme, I love both of them, but the FAL is king.

man.... from your screen name, i coulda sworn you were gonna vote Cetme :icon_biggrin:

I wish I would have documented my shooting with my Cetme, because while I didn't go to the extremes as "old dirty", I could swear I could have. But thats all just hearsay now with no pictures or real documentation.

[Rampager]

Though I agree with the fact that Century can make jammomatics out of the world’s best rifles. But that said, most of us here wouldn’t own a clone of a FAL, Cetme or G3 without Century bringing these down to an affordable level for us.

[wwIIBuff]

I have to agree with Rampager A century rifle has its place. Buy a Cetme or a FAL from Century check it out and see if you like it. If you do go buy the HK or the DSA/FN, they make a good test drive.

[nowhereman]

If you buy the thing new with a warranty repair. I have never had a problem with Century taking back everything I have bought from them. All except the WASR's I fixed dat.... I think I will get a AMD-65, FAL or Galil... I am sure I will have to send back the Galil from what I hear. They took back my CETME atleast 3 times...

[Norton]

I have both CAI FAL and CETME and have had good luck with both. So far my only trouble has been the mag well on the CETME being to tight.
So I am lucky so far.
Now this is my opinion only I find my FAL built on a Aussie SLR parts set has better ergonomics and I like the sight picture better. I know others has posted the reverse but for me I can shoot the FAL better because it lays better in my arms and has a better point of aim. I like it's take down and field strip better. I don't like it's butt stock removal, but I don't like the CETME's either I like the FAL's magazine lock up better than the CETME/G3 also.

I found this interesting as well. Every former serviceman I have spoken with whose nation used both the FAL and G 3 that I have met. When asked which one is he likes or thinks is better they say FAL

[rifleman]

so far my cai cetme has been reliable as any of my other guns and no jams, knock on wood

[JustJohn369]

Very elegantly Put.

[JustJohn369]

I am responding to the reply about buying a M1 Garand and trying it out, and reselling it to up grade if it's not your thing. I am actually a FAL junkie that is waiting on a SA CMP service grade so..... I want to shoot ém all.....

[jerrymrc]

I like them both but I prefer the FAL. Now "Old Dirty" is something else. having seen this gun up close and personal it is an amazing testament.

Being the match director for Falfest at the Whittington center in NM it has been my pleasure to watch this gun in action.

[MrGoodkat]

Is it true that FAL's will digest commercial or surplus ammo, and Cetme's will only reliably feed surplus?

[MAK2263]

Is it true that FAL's will digest commercial or surplus ammo, and Cetme's will only reliably feed surplus?

I had an FAL that would shoot commercial but not surplus.My Cetme will shoot whatever I feed it.I got rid of the FAL.

[Otis61]

Is it true that FAL's will digest commercial or surplus ammo, and Cetme's will only reliably feed surplus?

Mine shoots 308 commercial. Not 1 seperated, torn, or even cracked case.

[pigpen]

I'm out the loop!

"Old Dirty"?

[Otis61]

I'm out the loop!

"Old Dirty"?

Old Dirty. On this thread. A few pages ago. Its a CETME someone had that had I don't know how many 1000s of rounds through it without cleaning. Famous I guess.

[pigpen]

Old Dirty. On this thread. A few pages ago. Its a CETME someone had that had I don't know how many 1000s of rounds through it without cleaning. Famous I guess.

Oh!
I need to see some pics of that.

[KMURPHY]

Are you sure you dont mean ol dirty the FAL?

http://www.falfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=68486

[Otis61]

Duh!! Yeah. Thats right.

[wwIIBuff]

Wow dead even as of right now 31/31

[wanno]

Like my CETME!
Cheaper
I can get Milsurp ammo cheap
and it will use the cheaper G3 mags

[Templar]

Wow dead even as of right now 31/31

Pretty impressive for a CETME centered board.....

If you'd have asked this on the FALFiles.........:icon_biggrin:

[wwIIBuff]

Pretty impressive for a CETME centered board.....

If you'd have asked this on the FALFiles.........:icon_biggrin:

Or if you asked it on HKPRO :icon_biggrin:

[cfish]

CTD, don't give up on CT yet. When the heller case is handed down in June I think you may be surprised of the outcome as well as the ruling that every state and municipality will have to change where guns are concerned. Just my $.02 worth. Oh and I love my Cetme. 850 rounds down range before cleaning and not one malfunction.

[ELEFANTMKVI (The Inbred clown)]

Get yourself a cold one or 2 or 3. Sit down and watch "The Wild Geese' With Richard Burton and Roger Moore, then ask yourself the Question, Which is better. As for me, check out my avatar.:2pistol::sparta::sparta:

[Patria Povo]

COKE is better than PEPSI
CHEVY is better than FORD
BOXER BREIFS are better than Y-FRONTS
BASEBALL is better than FOOTBALL
:icon_biggrin:

[jfowl31]

everyone knows that commando is the only way to roll

I just sold my Chevy for my F250 (though this says nothing, because I miss my Chevy)
- so really this should read... Diesels are better than Gas motors.

I drink Dr Pepper

and Baseball sucks. Football and Basketball are where its at.

[Otis61]

COKE is better than PEPSI
CHEVY is better than FORD
BOXER BREIFS are better than Y-FRONTS
BASEBALL is better than FOOTBALL
:icon_biggrin:

WHAT????? Baseball better than Football? No way. Never in a million years. No way, no how.

[ctdemolay0405]

i gave up a long time ago, i'm gunna stay in the VA/DC area, probably become a cop with MPD

[SteelCore]

CETME, of course!

Superior design has allowed a rifle to be created with straight blow back, which when properly tuned and boltgapped, produces the felt recoil of the AK, no twisting/torquing or falling blocks, bolts, breeches, super easy to clean and maintain, and you can replace a handful of parts and have it back to new and operational again.

Truly a brilliant weapon.

The FAL has that falling breech block, and unlike the VZ-58, the thing is inconsistent enough to cause accuracy issues. It has more parts. It is more difficult to clean. It would be hard pressed to survive the field tests of the CETME/HK, like the 100meter drop test.

--------CLEANING AND MAINTENANCE PLUSES__________
A buncha you said the CETME is hard to clean...to that I must say "You're doing it wrong. Try this:
1. Gut the rifle so you're only holdinng the receiver/bbl part.
2. Spray CLPs Powder Blaster, Gun scrubber, or even brake cleaner into the receiver thrue the magwell and the ejector port, making all the powder in the receiver solvent and it runs right out.
3. let receiver dry, then coat the inside of the receiver with CLP.
4. Reassemble.

It is just that simple. If you're taking Hopppes#9 on Qtips to clean around those rails in there, or using patches, you're taking the diffcult road. The above stpes will work with any solvent from water on up.

Oh, and the same process goes for the internal parts..Powder blaster, dry, then CLP.

I can shoot all day, and have the CETME disassembled and cleaned and reassembled before an AR guy is even to the small parts cleaning.

-------------------ACCURACY BY DESIGN________
As far as accuracy, the CETME system was designed around that. Its no accident that the locking system doesn't have any twisting or torquing pieces in there, or the falling block breech. All of these systems causes motions that move the rifle off target by shifting parts at hi speed.

Not so with the CETME. Vorgrimmler set out to make a bolt system that moved in a straight line, with the locking/unlocking taking place in that same line of motion. He succeeded marvellously.

-----------------SIGHTING SYSTEM_____________________________
IMHO, the ghost ring sight system is the best iron sight system ever developed. For shooters of more open sight systems, it may take a bit of getting used to, but after that it is fool proof and will have a new shooter shooting accurately fast, and the person familiar with the system hitting accurately for long distances. I think every battle rifle could use the same system (at least the AR, M1, and M14 use the rear aperature, but not the front ring...they got it close, and those work well)

---------------------Ammo types_________________
In a milsurp rifle, the 'commercial' vs. milsurp ammo argument is a non-starter. ALL milsurp rifles were designed for use with mil-surp ammo, and that's that. If my car was made to take unleaded gas, that's what it is gonnna get, not regular even if it was a buck less.
(I've had my local dealer, a FAL shooter, swear up and down that OFV-headstampped ammo worked great in his FAL, and that he shot it all the time, and commercial, and handloads, blah blah, blah...Not me pal).

:rockon:CETME wins.:rockon:

[Old Jimmy]

You tell em Steel Core!!!

[hunter_la5]

CETME, of course!

while I do think the CETME is better (barely), I disagree with some of what you are saying here. I'm not trying to argue or flame here, just adding to the debate


The FAL has that falling breech block, and unlike the VZ-58, the thing is inconsistent enough to cause accuracy issues. It has more parts. It is more difficult to clean. It would be hard pressed to survive the field tests of the CETME/HK, like the 100meter drop test.

while the accuracy issue may be true theoretically, I really don't think there is any significant accuracy difference in the FAL and CETME. neither are precision weapons, but both will hit a man sized target at typical combat ranges

as far as the 100m drop test, I would guess the milled FAL receiver would hold up pretty well compared to the stamped receiver of the CETME. a good milled receiver will trump a stamped one in terms of durability any day



-------------------ACCURACY BY DESIGN________
As far as accuracy, the CETME system was designed around that. Its no accident that the locking system doesn't have any twisting or torquing pieces in there, or the falling block breech. All of these systems causes motions that move the rifle off target by shifting parts at hi speed.

Not so with the CETME. Vorgrimmler set out to make a bolt system that moved in a straight line, with the locking/unlocking taking place in that same line of motion. He succeeded marvellously.

keep in mind that there are more factors that lead to accuracy other than just bolt design. once again, the milled receiver of the FAL probably has less flex and give than the stamped receiver of the CETME, which can theoretically make the FAL more accurate.

and I don't think the CETME was designed around accuracy, if anything it would be a side effect. neither of these guns were designed as sniper rifles, these are battle rifles. but at any rate accuracy is fairly close to the same imho.


-----------------SIGHTING SYSTEM_____________________________
IMHO, the ghost ring sight system is the best iron sight system ever developed. For shooters of more open sight systems, it may take a bit of getting used to, but after that it is fool proof and will have a new shooter shooting accurately fast, and the person familiar with the system hitting accurately for long distances. I think every battle rifle could use the same system (at least the AR, M1, and M14 use the rear aperature, but not the front ring...they got it close, and those work well)


I like the sighting system of the CETME as well, they are my favorite iron sights. they provide a good balance between speed and accuracy. however, they are generally referred to as "diopter", not ghost ring. a ghost ring sight generally refers to a large rear aperture with a very thin ring. the diopter sights on the other hand are a medium aperture with a thick ring. also, with the ghost ring you generally just put the front sight pin in the center of the ring, whereas with the diopter you actually center the front sight ring within the rear sight ring so that there is an even circle of light between the two.

once again, not trying to argue or flame, just adding to the debate. but overall I agree that the CETME is a better weapon, but I think the differences are negligible enough that I'd be perfectly happy with either

[Patria Povo]

I found this interesting as well. Every former serviceman I have spoken with whose nation used both the FAL and G 3 that I have met. When asked which one is he likes or thinks is better they say FAL

I trained on an Aussie SLR, and carried a G3 in East Timor. For whatever it's worth .... they are both fine battle rifles - though my personal preference will always be for a G3.

[wwIIBuff]

I am with steel core on this one

[Old Jimmy]

The PSG-1 IS a sniper rifle based on the Cetme design and is sold as such worldwide, I cant ever remember seeing a FAL being sold or advertised as a sniper. So for the accuracy standpoint the Cetme is ahead. Plus on a real Cetme there ane no Century issues and they run fine from the factory. I dont have a FAL and have nothing against them and would like to own one someday but for me personally the G3 and M1a trips my trigger.

[JustJohn369]

Yep, I've only had problems with Barnuel Ammo out of 1000 diffrent rounds from 5-7 diffrent manafactures including local reloaders and have not had to adjust gas valve but 2x. I just avoid steel jacketed rnds. due to jam/charge handle malfunction. Ya can adjust for just about anything so as long as it's in the books for reloading. Most Factory loads are good.

[Genocide]

If I could ever get my cetme to run Im sure it would be a blast, but alas I got a lemon.

[Rampager]

In the History channels documentary, “Worlds top 10 rifles” the FAL ranked No. 5:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=40-_RFAwq8g

This video next is from the same documentary and quickly runs down the whole list down to No. 1, which is the AK:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k7Bt9EmwOLs&feature=related

As much as I like the Cetme and G3, it didn’t place in this documentary for what that's worth…

[Player]

i really don't get why people are saying the FAL is inaccurate. For a battle rifle, it's plenty good. I think it's accuracy really is not behind the CETME much at all.
I hate the CETME sights, i really do, the G3, maybe better... but that's personal preference.

and about the PSG-1 being based on a G3 platform... that doesn't mean anything. the M76 is a sniper rifle based on the AK platform, and since it's a sniper rifle, would you automatically say that the AK is a much more accurate platform than the FAL?

[Rampager]

My guess would be that the FAL by its bolt design does have a tendency to string as it heats up from what I’ve read. But to me this is a really negligible thing (at least in my own experience) in the case of a semi shooter.

Maybe I’m not shooting mine long enough (getting it hot enough), but I’m not seeing this as a huge issue with mine at all. When I’m taking aimed shots, as with any marksman’s type semi auto shooter I’m not seeing stringing with my ol’ cheapy Century L1A1. Not saying it’s not a real issue in some circumstances, but in my own experiences it’s hasn't been one for me. In fact, my CAI L1A1 came with a new green mountain barrel (US part) and that loooong FAL barrel and FH combo shoots very nicely actually.

[KMURPHY]

In the History channels documentary, “Worlds top 10 rifles” the FAL ranked No. 5:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=40-_RFAwq8g

This video next is from the same documentary and quickly runs down the whole list down to No. 1, which is the AK:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k7Bt9EmwOLs&feature=related

As much as I like the Cetme and G3, it didn’t place in this documentary for what that's worth…

these documentaries suck

[Otis61]

Everyone knows if its on TV it HAS to be true.

[Rampager]

I'm not saying it's the gospel, just thought it was interesting that they didn’t even mention the Cetme/G3, but the FAL clearly was named. I don’t agree with all of their choices either. Myself I’d have picked the Mauser rifle as number 1…being that it was the bases for the 1903 and most all modern rifles that came after it. But that's just it, no one is EVER going to compile a list that makes everyone happy, which is why threads like this - Cetme vs FAL, AK vs AR, spiderman vs superman goes on and on.

Instead of just criticizing, dig up some documentary vids yourselves too and post links for us…entertain us :icon_biggrin:.

[KMURPHY]

touche

[Otis61]

I didn't mean to be crtical of you Rampager. I've seen that episode probly 4-5 times. Always makes me mad they never even mention the CETME/G3. But as you said can't make everyone happy.

[KMURPHY]

I didn't mean to be crtical of you Rampager.

I agree, I came off more than somewhat like an ass...

[jettag]

I love the features and feel of the FAL but...
If I had to reach for one or the other in the dark/rain/duress, it'd be mi Chopo.

I do not like AK's OK:icon_neutral:

[Templar]

Get yourself a cold one or 2 or 3. Sit down and watch "The Wild Geese' With Richard Burton and Roger Moore, then ask yourself the Question, Which is better. As for me, check out my avatar.:2pistol::sparta::sparta:



http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/Tim_Orrock/Africa%20Hot/P1000176.jpg

[Commander47]

I have both and shot both military and civilian versions extensively.

I will tell you that the Cetme is a far simpler weapon with less problems.

You cannot compare the FAL to the Cetme without comparing it also to the G3 since they are virtually identical.

The Fal is more sophisticated (expensive) and tempermental. You have the gas system to deal with, adjustments and it can be a pain in the butt to clean.

The CETME/G3 family of HK 91 rifles is really simple to clean and service. The entire fire control group comes out with the pull of a pin.

The FAL FCG is difficult to get apart and together to clean if you want to disassemble it.

The FAL has a longer barrel and is probably the more accurate of the two. The CETME is definitely smaller and lighter.

I have both rifles and like them both tremendously.

They have similar differences like an M-16 and an AK 47.

The FAL has a lot of machined and fine intricate parts like an M-16. The CETME is all stamped and inexpensive like the AK.

The FAL is more accurate and the CETME might be a bit more robust.

Both are absolutely awful in full auto.

[konigstigerii]

For me the CETME is what I chose. I like how the rifle looks and how it feels in your hands. I also didn't own a roller-locked delayed blowback rifle, so that is another reason I got the CETME. I like the history behind it too, tracing back to Mauser's STG45. My first gun was a Yugo m48 Mauser... so I tend to lean towards Mauser and German weapons. Cleaning it I think is easy, pull the bolt assembly out, clean that to how you see fit, I usually pull the bolt head off to clean the LP and rollers, then wipe the trunnion down, and then clean the barrel. I have no experience with the FN FAL, but I have guns that operate similarly, and see cleaning them is probably about the same overall. Cetme seems to have a bigger aftermarket following, and spare parts, as a lot interchange with the HK rifle. But I plan to get FAL sometime....

[deth502]

damn, the plss closed on this old thread, so i cant vote for the fal.

if it were betw the fal and the g3, it'd be a much tougher decision. the diffren e in the sights is a big deal, afa im concerned.

my take on it would be pretty much the exact opposite of what commander47 just posted.

the fal gas system makes it more adaptable (better) imo.

the fal is really simple to clean and service

the cetme (g3) FCG is difficult to get apart and together to clean if you want to disassemble it.

The FAL has a longer barrel ...........g3 is the more accurate of the two. The CETME is definitely smaller and lighter.


I have both rifles and like them both tremendously.


The g3 is more accurate and the fal might be a bit more robust.


of course, im sure this all comes down to each persons individual experiance with each rifle. c ommander thinks the cetme triggerpack is easier to take apart. i can take apart and reassemble the fal fcg about 3x in the time it takes me to do the g3 once. im sure commander is either better than me with the g3 fcg, or worse with the fal, likely a combination of both. i can shoot circles around my fal with my g3, but i think the sights are better on it too. if one were more used to the fal sighting system, im sure they may find it easier to aim acurately.

[KMURPHY]

damn, the plss closed on this old thread, so i cant vote for the fal.

if it were betw the fal and the g3, it'd be a much tougher decision. the diffren e in the sights is a big deal, afa im concerned.

my take on it would be pretty much the exact opposite of what commander47 just posted.

the fal gas system makes it more adaptable (better) imo.

the fal is really simple to clean and service

the cetme (g3) FCG is difficult to get apart and together to clean if you want to disassemble it.

The FAL has a longer barrel ...........g3 is the more accurate of the two. The CETME is definitely smaller and lighter.


I have both rifles and like them both tremendously.


The g3 is more accurate and the fal might be a bit more robust.


of course, im sure this all comes down to each persons individual experiance with each rifle. c ommander thinks the cetme triggerpack is easier to take apart. i can take apart and reassemble the fal fcg about 3x in the time it takes me to do the g3 once. im sure commander is either better than me with the g3 fcg, or worse with the fal, likely a combination of both. i can shoot circles around my fal with my g3, but i think the sights are better on it too. if one were more used to the fal sighting system, im sure they may find it easier to aim acurately.

I would agree with this, but I am partial to the FAL

[HankC]

I have both, I like FAL better. CETME is fun to shoot but the rifle stock hit my cheek bone. None of my rifles (FAL AR, AK and several bolt guns) do that!

[Templar]

:nonono:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/Tim_Orrock/Funny%20stuff/53265fb0-1.jpg













:offhead:

[rifleman]

:nonono:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/Tim_Orrock/Funny%20stuff/53265fb0-1.jpg












:offhead:

now you cant say anything, i was just looking at your sar8

[Templar]

It's true, I do own and enjoy both, but I prefer the Saive system over the Vorgrimmler system.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/Tim_Orrock/G3%20and%20R1/DSC00245.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/Tim_Orrock/G3%20and%20R1/DSC00243.jpg

[slamare247]

I've owned plenty of FALs in my day (still have an Entreprise in the safe), and have a couple of CETMEs now, and I really enjoy the CETME rifles more. I realize that the FAL is a much higher quality rifle, much more ergonomic and better thought out, but there's something so simple and elegant about the CETMEs...I can't quite put my finger on it. It inspires confidence in its abilities, and it feels lighter and better balanced in the hands. I actually like my cheapy CETMEs more than my PTR91!

[Norton]

there's something so simple and elegant about the CETMEs...I can't quite put my finger on it. It inspires confidence in its abilities, and it feels lighter and better balanced in the hands. I actually like my cheapy CETMEs more than my PTR91!


Good points slamare.
The CETME is the West's AK 47

The FAL is the rest of world's M 14

[BigBoy99]

Which do you think I prefer? In my collection I have one CETME and about 20 FALs.

Bill

[Beprepared]

My father has owned an H&K 91 for the better part of two decades. It is his baby, his MBR, he swears by it with the numerous deer it has brought home in the extremes of the south Alabama swamps where we hunted.

In 2007 I found a FrankenFAL at the local GS and bought it as I had always wanted one. After tweaking with it for a few weeks/trips to the gun range I got it working like a swiss clock. (The previous owner obviously knew nothing of proper repair work)

During one of our range trips I broke the entire weapon down with a leatherman and a small diameter punch. (Gas tube out, piston spring, bolt and carrier) This impressed my father, who always swears whenever he is reassembling the bolt on the H&K. It impressed him so much that next show that rolled around, when a C2 was available at a rediculous price (much less it being a C2) he snached it up and now uses either that or a Poly M-14 as his MBR.

I will now offer a third party review of a DSA design (http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BQY/is_/ai_87564352?tag=artBody;col1).

Discuss.:thumbup:

[markfh]

I had heard they were tough but hadn't seen this torture test before. Based on my prior experience with an original FN FAL Para (I sold it years ago :buttkick:) I decided on biting the bullet and buying the DSA 21" SA58 Para instead of putting together a questionable rifle.

They are indeed a surpurb weapon.

I do have a Limited Edition CETME with the stainless steel receiver and a PTR91 as well.

[thedave8]

I'm no help...i love 'em ALL....DSA SA58, century r1a1, cetme, and ptr 91....all function awesome......roller locks are a bit harder to clean if that matters to you......

[Buelligan]

All of my G3s & CETMES out shoot my CAI FAL. The poor FAL shoots 10in groups at 100 yards . The bore is tight and bright and looks new . It might have bin the NOISE MAKER so I took it off and have not tryed it yet.