Rails or No Rails

[ctdemolay0405]

So, here's another dumb poll and debate for us to have?

When picking a handgun, do rails matter, or not to you? Personally, i like them, and if there is the same model of gun with and without rails, i will get the one with rails. (i.e. the older version of the P229 and the newer version of the P229)

[nevada]

I voted 'no', but then I'm not an LEO entering a dark area that might have a homocidal nut waiting for me. I prefer clean looks in my handguns ala CZ75. But who knows, thinking and tastes change over time.

[dpoe]

mm... depends on the pistol, I think. Glock, yes. HK, yes, 1911... maaayyybeee , most likely not. I've seen rails on a revolver, that was just weird.

yeah I think it really depends on the pistol.

[jlpskydive]

mm... depends on the pistol, I think. Glock, yes. HK, yes, 1911... maaayyybeee , most likely not. I've seen rails on a revolver, that was just weird.

yeah I think it really depends on the pistol.


I'm with Dpoe. It really depends on the pistol. Even though all but two of mine have them.

[ctdemolay0405]

hmmm, good point dpoe, i'll change it to "depends on the gun"


never mind, could a mod do that for me, i dont know how

[Otis61]

I'd say in general, no. On a select few, maybe.

[Schultz]

I'll have to go with "depends on the gun" too.

[hunter_la5]

+1 to what dpoe said.
if it's a serious defense gun, then yes, I would like the rail so if I later decided to add a light I could.
if it's just a range gun or a collectors item, like say a GI 1911 or something, then no

[Old Jimmy]

I think if its a gun that your going to leave in a nightstand it would be helpful so your gun and flashlight are all in one and you dont gotta make a lot of noise fumbling for 2 seperate things in the dark and let the bad guy know exactly where you are.

If it is going to be carried then I say no, too much bulk to try and conceal.

[jfowl31]

I say no rails period. The pistol in one hand and a decent surefire in the other is the way for me.

Rails make the gun less comfy to carry putting sharp corners riding against your body, and IN GENERAL, the lights that will go on a rail are complete garbage compared to a good tactical light.

IMO, rails and dark corners are a job for the M4 with a GOOD tac-light mounted, and even a laser if you so choose.

[Optimus Prime]

I went with yes, just because my next one will have a rail. I damaged ligaments in my left wrist durring basic, and have to wear a brace when it hurts too much, and even though it's my offhand, I can't dirrect a flashlight with it if I'm wearing a brace, so I'd like to have one with a light attached.

[wwIIBuff]

Get the rail, if you don't use it no problem but, if you need one down the road and you don't get you would be screwed. JMHO

[ctdemolay0405]

no, i deff. am getting a railed weapon, i think its more useful that you have the option to put on a light or laser or both if you want. i wouldnt carry it with a light attached, that would be too much of a PITA (plus the holster selection for weapons with lights mounted seems to be fairly low). i'm just saying for a bedside weapon, throw on the light at night, etc. but i will conceade that weapon does matter. a colt M1911 doesnt need one, but i like the 229 with one over hte one without one

[hulygan]

no, i deff. am getting a railed weapon, i think its more useful that you have the option to put on a light or laser or both if you want. i wouldnt carry it with a light attached, that would be too much of a PITA (plus the holster selection for weapons with lights mounted seems to be fairly low). i'm just saying for a bedside weapon, throw on the light at night, etc. but i will conceade that weapon does matter. a colt M1911 doesnt need one, but i like the 229 with one over hte one without one

A 12 gauge buckshot and a light attatched would be my bedside weapon. If I didn't already stash my xd-45 there. nothing on the rail, just a tac light next to it. On the rails you can add a light to most, or get the cz-75 bayonet. Its perfect, run out of ammo and just start stabbing with your pistol.:sterb029:

[ackspac]

I say no rails period. The pistol in one hand and a decent surefire in the other is the way for me.

Rails make the gun less comfy to carry putting sharp corners riding against your body, and IN GENERAL, the lights that will go on a rail are complete garbage compared to a good tactical light.

IMO, rails and dark corners are a job for the M4 with a GOOD tac-light mounted, and even a laser if you so choose.
Ditto, my pistols are rail free. To me you are a target in the dark with a beam of light coming from your gun. Now for a fun factor I wouldnt mind a decent laser. Surefire makes better handheld lights. Sig has a new strobe style light that is susposed to "stun" a person. Im trying to find out more about that one.

[ctdemolay0405]

those lights are bright as hell though, if your pointing it at someone, it should blind them. its not gunna be any more of a target than someone with a hand held flashlight

[ackspac]

those lights are bright as hell though, if your pointing it at someone, it should blind them. its not gunna be any more of a target than someone with a hand held flashlight

If your a bad guy hiding behind an object that is out of light, you can trace where the gun is pointing and come up from behind. I have read that some officers are trained to use quick on and off methods to keep that from happening.

[hunter_la5]

If your a bad guy hiding behind an object that is out of light, you can trace where the gun is pointing and come up from behind. I have read that some officers are trained to use quick on and off methods to keep that from happening.

that is very true, which is why it is important to learn when and when not to use your light, as well as how. I think lights certainly have a very significant utility to them, but you have to be careful with them as well. I know many police departments train on proper light usage for this very reason. a light can be excellent for spotting bad-guys or turn you into a bullet magnet, depending on your application of it.

[jfowl31]

Yes, SOME of the rail-lights are bright, but none of them are anywhere near as bright as a good taclight. My Streamlight is 200 Lumens, and it doubles as a weapon if you know how to hold it and fight with it. Surefire makes some lights that have ends that are made for striking.

A light on a pistol is just a bad idea IMO. As I said before, if I'm entering a place where I think I need a pistol AND a light, I'm A) in my house, where I'll use a 12-guage or B) in my truck, where again, I'll use a 12-guage or whatever happens to be in the truck at that moment in time.

My honest opinion is that a pistol should not be a "go-to" defense weapon. I carry a pistol becase I can't conceal a shotgun, and as soon as I'm not in a public place, I have the biggest baddest weapon I own to defend myself. I guess I've just never bought into the James Bond type of superhero that can gun a man down from 150 yards with a Walther PPK, and dump the magazine as quick as you can pull the trigger and drop 6 guys at various angles.

[redleg17]

mm... depends on the pistol, I think. Glock, yes. HK, yes, 1911... maaayyybeee , most likely not. I've seen rails on a revolver, that was just weird.

yeah I think it really depends on the pistol.

I agree, it depends on the gun. As for rails on a 1911, never! I've never been into glocks, XD's, HK's. I love revolvers and yes rails on wheelers is weird. Maybe thats why I think there cool.

S&W M&P 8-shot .357 designed for SWAT team members to use in conjunction with ballistic shields.

Would we call civilians who buy these "mall cowboys"?

[Cavalryman]

Two words about rails on handguns...mall...ninja.

The light the perp will see coming from my handgun will be the muzzle flash!

I (reluctantly) admit that there may be some role for rails on carbines, but the whole purpose of a handgun is to be compact and handy. The more crap you hang off it, the more you eliminate that advantage. IMHO, the only reason for defending your home with a handgun is because you don't own a rifle or a shotgun. A handgun is what I carry under my vest when I'm out around town.

[tumbleweed1002]

I would have to go with rails I just cant see fumbling with a flashlight if you dont have to. What happens in the worst case when you have to reload and need your other hand? I guess the flashlight hits the floor and roles away in the dark? plan for the worst and hope for the best!

[ctdemolay0405]

i agree, its not mall-ninja unless your doing dumb things like attaching bayonets, etc. to it. mall ninja is attaching lots of assinine equipment that serve no purpose

[JC Speiser]

i agree, its not mall-ninja unless your doing dumb things like attaching bayonets, etc. to it. mall ninja is attaching lots of assinine equipment that serve no purpose

You mean this has no use? I was hoping to get on the list since they were taking orders!

:wink:and yes, I think you need rails.

[SteelCore]

I like Jfowl's answers, they are mine also.

I voted "doesn't matter" because I would not use them anyway. I consider a light in a dark house a give away to yoour location. I mean, eyes adjust to near dark, and night sights can helkp you get on target...

Also, for a CCW kinda gun, I want it in .45cal and as few things on it as possible that will increase weight, or snags on clothing and stuff.

If you're doing room-sweeps and building entry on a SWAT team, yeah, I'd want a light or an EOTech...and body armor, etc. That's a diff scenario in my eyes than home defense.

[jfowl31]

too true Steelcore. rails ARE mall ninja for the reason you specified CT. "mall ninja is attaching lots of assinine equipment that serve no purpose".... like a light attached to what used to be a concealable small/compact weapon.

Seriously, what scenario are you ever even thinking that a light attached to a pistol would go to good use?

AND, again, what scenario is anyone thinking about where they are going to seriously need to do a tactical mag change? If you HAVE to actually use your pistol, and the threat is not stopped after a magazine worth of bullets, either the situation is gone, or you need to train more.

I repeat what I said earlier, and its my opinion, and not everyone's, as is all of this really.... but a pistol is not a "go to" gun for defense, its what we settle for when we have to conceal a weapon because its not feasibly possible to conceal a shotty or rifle.

[tumbleweed1002]

Weapons light serves no purpose :melt: XD45 compact :melt: I guess you must be refering to somthing more like this

[Templar]

those lights are bright as hell though, if your pointing it at someone, it should blind them. its not gunna be any more of a target than someone with a hand held flashlight


Unfortunately, it's not going to blind them to the point where they won't be able to shoot back, Surefire propaganda not withstanding.

I'm a big Surefire guy though.

The low light/night fighting classes I've taken with Ken Hackathorn and Larry Vickers emphasize the limited use of a light. You definitely need it, but you don't turn it on and keep it on.

There are pros and cons to a weapon mounted light on a handgun.

Opening doors, mag changes, etc. are all accomplished much more easily with a light mounted to a handgun.

The big disadvantage though is that if you do want to use the light for anything other than targeting a bad guy, you're going to be flagging whoever you're shining the light on.

I've got a SIG P226 with a rail and Crimson Trace laser grips, and and older P226 without. I also have a S&W M&P 9mm and HK 45 with rails. I'll be aquiring several Surefire X-300's for the railed handguns.

[CHSnake]

Templar, got it right, with a rail mounted light you are pointing your weapon at anything you look at. usually not a good idea. although as far as rail goes it doesn't matter as long as you can use the weapon effectively.

[pigpen]

I voted rails only cuz my glock don't have any and knowing that I have one less option makes me feel inadequate. I would probly never use them if I had them but not having them makes me want them. You know how it is.

[Templar]

http://vickerstactical.com/Tips/whiteLight.htm

[Cavalryman]

You mean this has no use? I was hoping to get on the list since they were taking orders!

:wink:and yes, I think you need rails.

Wow! Finally something a Glock is good for!

[rifleman]

I say no rails period. The pistol in one hand and a decent surefire in the other is the way for me.

Rails make the gun less comfy to carry putting sharp corners riding against your body, and IN GENERAL, the lights that will go on a rail are complete garbage compared to a good tactical light.

IMO, rails and dark corners are a job for the M4 with a GOOD tac-light mounted, and even a laser if you so choose.

not so, i have a TLR-1 on my glock for home protection. gotta say that its 3 times brighter than any of my mag lights. even at long ranges. very well made light that fits like a glove on the glock rail

[rpmfly2]

mm... depends on the pistol, I think. Glock, yes. HK, yes, 1911... maaayyybeee , most likely not. I've seen rails on a revolver, that was just weird.

yeah I think it really depends on the pistol.

Depends on situation and pistol!

[XO3319]

:airtight::2pistol:No rail-- rails = ugly

ugly means reduced killing power

but ugly rails are "tactikool"

[weasel_master]

I only own milsurps and none have rails. I don't like them on my pistols, but to each his own.

[ctdemolay0405]

too true Steelcore. rails ARE mall ninja for the reason you specified CT. "mall ninja is attaching lots of assinine equipment that serve no purpose".... like a light attached to what used to be a concealable small/compact weapon.

Seriously, what scenario are you ever even thinking that a light attached to a pistol would go to good use?

AND, again, what scenario is anyone thinking about where they are going to seriously need to do a tactical mag change? If you HAVE to actually use your pistol, and the threat is not stopped after a magazine worth of bullets, either the situation is gone, or you need to train more.

I repeat what I said earlier, and its my opinion, and not everyone's, as is all of this really.... but a pistol is not a "go to" gun for defense, its what we settle for when we have to conceal a weapon because its not feasibly possible to conceal a shotty or rifle.

i never said anything about a tatical mag change, and you would consider a light, a laser or both, unnecessary? i think one mount is not "mall-ninja", putting 5 or 6 on is, putting on optics backwards like u see in the pictures or attaching airsoft equipment to your rifle. i dont see how a light/laser for a bedside gun is mall-ninja. its more efficient, in my book, if u had to use that, than a gun and a seperate flashlight. i'm not LOOKING to use any gun in a fight, but every rifle and shotty in my hosue is locked up, where as the pistols are the bedside stuff. also, a pistol is alot more practical in my house, than a m1917 bolt action rifle or a single shot breech loading rifle. either way, there are some people who like rails, some who dont.

[jfowl31]

all the more reason to go out and get a $150 pump action shotty. No need to lock it up, and you can tape a light to its barrel and be MUCH more functional in a home defense situation.

I never said lights shouldn't go on ANYTHING. I just don't see the point on a pistol. A pistol is and has always been designed to be a sort of "backup" weapon. Its completely inferior to its larger counterparts in rifles and shotguns in killing power, control, accuracy... etc. Pistols have their purpose, but IMO, home defense is not their place. 9mm 40, 45 all of them go straight through sheetrock. I'll go with a 12-guage with buckshot any day every day, and put plenty of holes in a person with 1 squeeze of the trigger.

Me calling it "mall ninja" is because I see a light on a pistol as a useless accessory. That is my definition of mall ninja. Putting useless things on stuff that they don't belong on. Much like putting a 24 power scope on an ak pistol. that 24 power scope has a place, and the ak pistol may have a function (fun factor i guess), but together they equal mall ninja.

All I know is I've trained for "break-in's" and while you may think youre pretty good with that pistol, and the light seems great, try to put 10 rounds rapid fire on target in the dark with that pistol, and then hit the same sized target with a couple rounds of 12-guage, rapid fire, and check out the damage difference. Just about every person out there can point a shotgun or any rifle for that matter and pull the trigger and hit what they are aiming at at a short distance. A pistol leaves so much more margin for error, this reason and this reason alone is why I'll only use my pistols if I absolutely have to (meaning I have nothing else to use... i.e. in a public place)

and Rifleman, that Tlr-1 may be a good light, but I can guarantee its no match for a GOOD tactical light for the simple fact that it will lack in voltage what a GOOD tactical light will put out. My Streamlight is putting out 200 lumens with a focusable beam and its weapons mountable. I can light up the brush at over 200 yards with it good enough to see and identify a coyote at that range.