Ma Deuce on the way out?

[97th Signalman]

Tell me it isn't true...but it might be. Read this:

http://www.military.com/forums/0,15240,169995,00.html?ESRC=army.nl

[cbear]

Well, they Navy will take at least some of them. They typically get the Army's hand me downs. Not really sure why weight and recoil are much of an issue on a mounted weapon. I'm not sure what kind of accuarcy they want for an anti material weapon.

Like everything else, it must be replaced because new must be better.

[pelos]

..If it ain't broke, don't fix it!

and guess what?...the M2 ain't broke.

[Drew]

I believe this has to do with the large amount of .50 cals that people are blowing up over here due failing to headspace and time correctly. Its a pretty big problem and every time it happens in another unit we get another class on the M2. I bet they just made the decision to look for something more (modern soldier who thinks everything is just gtg the moment he gets it!)

[metrotps]

This isn't the first time the Army has tried to replace the M2. It is usually due to pressure from some manufacturer who has a "friend" in Congress. If I remember correctly last time it was a 15mm, gas operated, feed from either side, lightweight weapon from FN. It didn’t make it and the Army stayed with the Browning. Let's not forget the cost also.

[sdk1968]

yeah just dont see them being able to replace it with anything that can do the same jobs....

although that new 20mm blet fed is looking pretty sweet.

[MicroPilot]

General Dynamics Armament and Technical Products has developed the M2E2 12.7mm weapon after 25 years of experience manufacturing the M2 Heavy Barrel machine gun for the U.S. Department of Defense. The M2E2 offers the proven performance and in-place logistics support of the existing M2HB machine gun along with new features and design improvements of the Quick Change Barrel system, flash hider, and a manual trigger block safety. These upgrades will increase the performance of the battle-proven M2 and can be fitted to existing M2HB weapons.
• Fixed headspace and timing Eliminates safety concerns associated with barrel changing.
• Common barrel thread Interchanges with existing HB barrels, eliminates logistics concerns during fielding and simplifies conversion of existing barrels to the QCB configuration.
• Positive barrel engagement Patented J-slot barrel retention system assures that the barrel is securely locked and aligned.
• Flash hider Reduces muzzle flash, making the M2 night-vision friendly.
• Robust removable barrel handle Simplifies hot-barrel changing.

http://www.militaryfirearm.com/Forum/picture.php?albumid=11&pictureid=163

http://www.militaryfirearm.com/Forum/picture.php?albumid=11&pictureid=164

Link to General Dynamic Armament and Technology: http://www.gdatp.com/

[wandering_ronin]

The setting of headspace and timing on the M2 was always a PITA. That was the biggest draw back to the weapon as it was used by us (armor). I can see weight being a big issue with folks who gotta tote it though. If they could go with the upgrades as listed above, I am for it...as long as they don't totally try to redo how the system functions. It works, and has worked well for a long time...just needs to be tweaked in my opinion (for what it's worth).

[SteelCore]

until I saw the M2E2 system. 12.7mm = 50cal....nice!

The reports of the ma deuce in every locale and encounter said it performed as expected or better. The reviews of it from the sandbox said they wished every weapon was a robust and reliable, and built lie the M2.

[sdk1968]

im actually running an M3AC..... but it runs like a champ even with the MOAT on it. would hated to have seen them do away with it.

so its just an improvement on it. thats a good thing. well unless they improve it like ford did the PINTO.

[19k40ret]

the army already had a fixed headspace, quick change barrel, select fire rate (low and High) .50 cal machinegun it was the M85 and was on the m60 series MBT. loved it, seldom had a problem with it. never understood why they did not use it instead of the M2, except for the army had a ton of m2's

[Drew]

We roll out with 4 Bradleys and 1 MRAP every patrol (MRAP gets parked at the COP incase a Bradley goes down). Everytime we come back and park the MRAP we have to Pull the .50 cal off along with the barrel. So everytime we roll back out we have to do Headspace and Timing. Its really quite annoying, especially if its short notice. I'm all for something that eliminates having to do that!

[Cavalryman]

I'm with SteelCore...I was about to say "No way!" but I think the M2E2 might actually be "the same thing only better."

[wandering_ronin]

the army already had a fixed headspace, quick change barrel, select fire rate (low and High) .50 cal machinegun it was the M85 and was on the m60 series MBT. loved it, seldom had a problem with it. never understood why they did not use it instead of the M2, except for the army had a ton of m2's

All the older guys in my unit who ever messed with the M85 never had anything good to say about it.

[brewskzilla]

I'm all for updating stuff that is obsolete, but I dont think the M2 is obsolete. Sure, there might be more modern, lighter stuff out there, but will it be as reliable? Who knows? It's kind of sad, but hell, 90 years of service is a record, isn't it? I'm not really sure how to feel about this.... HEY... If they aren't going to use those big Brownings anymore... I could always take one or two off their hands... :sterb126:

[okie shooter]

From the discription, this sounds like a evloution not a replacement, as there is plenty of commality with the design, just improvements on the shortfallings of the M2

[SteelCore]

" HEY... If they aren't going to use those big Brownings anymore... I could always take one or two off their hands... "

That's what I was thinkin...M2 parts kist on the mkt! Woohoo!

[MicroPilot]

From the pictures I posted it looks like it's just a barrel change with some kind of adapter for the receiver, and a fire control modification. They are going to use the original receivers and most of the internals.

Now all we have to do is figure out how to get all those old barrels to TurboThis and see what he can come up with! :thumbup:

[MasterGunner]

Replacing the M2 .50 BMG has been a wet dream for the U.S. Army since the end of WW2. Since then we've seen a series of dismal flops come out of the Army Armament Command (or whatever their name is now). There was the M85 tank machine gun (a true POS) but they did develop the M15 link for it; there was the "Dover Devil" dual gas system, dual ammo feed sytem .50 that died; now there is the XM312 that has dual feed, but 1/2 the cyclic rate as the M2HB -- oh, yes, it is lighter! Another POS.

The M2HB will be still chugging and killing bad guys long after the XM312 is laid to rest. Not because there isn't anything better, but because the M2 gun is simple and works. Fifty caliber perfection from John M. Browning since 1921. Now THAT'S a record to be proud of.

:sterb126:

[Beprepared]

M2 kits on the market... excuse me, I need a moment alone.

I don't understand the whole problem with headspacing. You keep your Go-Nogo guage on your dog tags and you dial that bitch in. Set in the go guage, and crank that puppy with a pipe wrench till it's good.

Yes it clicks, yes it get difficult to turn but damn, set the headspace, time your bursts (if you can) and you are gold.

So, how long before Century makes f*cked up receivers for this? :icon_biggrin:

[Commander47]

the army already had a fixed headspace, quick change barrel, select fire rate (low and High) .50 cal machinegun it was the M85 and was on the m60 series MBT. loved it, seldom had a problem with it. never understood why they did not use it instead of the M2, except for the army had a ton of m2's

I was an M60 series tanker for many many years. Love the tank, hate the M85. Pure POS.

We could never fire it on high rate of fire. And to make it work reliably at all it had so much oil running out of it all over your uniform and inside the turret. Even then it was hit or miss.

We often had to take the one functioning M-85 and swap it among the victors just to quailify the company on table VIII. :eek:

We all BEGGED for the M2. And finally got it back in the M1. :icon_biggrin: