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robocop10mm
07-16-2008, 02:59 PM
It is with much embarassment that I start this post. I feel it important to share this with you so hopefully no one has to go through what I have gone through.

Let me start with some background. I have been loading ammo for about 30 years. I really got serious about 24 years ago. I have been casting bullets for those same 24 years. I study ballistics, both internal, external and terminal. I am a firearms instructor and armorer.

Saturday was a day like many other weekend days for me, spend a little time in the shop working with ammo or guns. I was given about a dozen rounds of OFV 7.62 X 51 (yes the dreaded Indian ammo). I decided the ammo would not be fired through any of my guns as is. I got out the RCBS collet bullet puller out and pulled the FMJ's and dumped the powder. To insure I would not mistake this ammo for bad Indian ammo, I decided the primers had to go too. That way a silver colored primer would be a dead giveaway the ammo had been rebuilt.

I have always heard you should not attempt to decap live primers but I have never had problems. I got out the universal decapping die and proceeded to gingerly press out the live primers. This worked just fine on all but one particularily stubborn primer. The decapping pin went through the primer with out pushing it out. Upon closer inspection I could see that the primer crimp was especially firm on this case.

Well, with a hole through the primer, it had to be dead, right? This is when I got really stupid. With the price and availablity of 7.62 X 51 brass, I wanted to salvage all I could.

I got the brilliant idea to put a small, eyeglass type screwdriver down the neck of the case, feel it into the flash hole and see if I could get the primer out. Of course it did not budge so I took a small hammer and tapped a few times on the end of the screwdriver. Yeah, that was ill advised but the primer already had a hole in it so it must be dead.

After a couple of taps, I heard "BANG" and my left hand went numb. I dropped what I was doing and went in the house. There was a bit of blood and a lot of black soot. I scrubbed me numb bleeding hand for several minutes with anti bacterial soap and went to find the significant other.

I had to admit that I had screwed up as the feeling slowly returned to my hand. Still no real pain so I was good to go. I poured some hydrogen peroxide over the wound.

We had errands to run so I put some gauze on it and went to the store. About 3 hours later we returned and I went to the shop to investigate further. I found the OFV case and found it to no longer have a primer in it. As I had recently cleaned up around the shop I should have been able to locate the primer if it was there.

I now had to admit there was a good possibility the primer was in my hand. I bit the bullet (so to speak) and told the significant other it was time to go to the ER. She gladly agreed and I drove the 10 minutes to the nearby hospital ER.

I knew the uneducated medical staff would have a hard time grasping the concept of a primer vs a bullet so I took the now primerless case with me. True to form I was asked about an exit wound, who had the gun, me or someone else, how this gunshot happened etc. I showed them the case and explained the situation and they seemed to understand.

X-rays confirmed the primer had indeed entered at the base of the left ring finger (4th metacarpal) and lodged in the meaty portion near the 5th metacarpal. It had travelled about an inch through my hand. My pinky finger is numb so nerve damage is a real possibility.

The ER Doc spoke to a surgeon over the phone and they agreed it did not need to come out right away. I was given a script for an anti-biotic and pain killer and told to call the hand specialist on Monday.

Monday rolled around and I called and got an appointment. She reviewed the X-rays and gave me the option of removing it or leaving it in. I chose to have it removed so now I am scheduled for surgery on Friday. The feeling comes and goes in the pinky so I am hopeful the nerve is not severed, just traumatized. Perhaps the primer is resting against the nerve causing the part-time numbness.

At any rate the surgeon will remove the primer and evaluate the nerve status. If necessary, she will repair the damaged nerve.

I did not ever think I would get that stupid but I did. Maybe we should change the "Don't shoot Indian ammo" to "Dont' even mess around with Indian ammo".

Schultz
07-16-2008, 03:25 PM
When i was younger and just getting into reloading i used to do that with 303 Brit till my Dad said "The rule of thumb is don't try to decap a live primer or you might loose your thumb" those cases aren't worth the effort. Well then i just went outside with a hammer and flattened the case till it popped, That is till i got a piece brass embedded in my arm.

We all make errors from time to time, We're men it's in our DNA. Best of luck with the surgery, I hope it all goes well for you.

Woodman in MO
07-16-2008, 03:37 PM
:blink2:....:blink2: Ouch...hope it gets healed okay.

Otis61
07-16-2008, 03:57 PM
Ouch is right. A few times I've put a case between two pieces of wood in a vice to detonate the primer, but thats probly not a good idea either. I wonder if maybe loading it in a gun and pulling the triger might be a better solution?

I like that "its in our DNA"

k98k792
07-16-2008, 04:57 PM
Robocop,Thank you very much for sharing this with us. It is a lesson all of us can benefit fom.

Stillife
07-16-2008, 06:47 PM
Hope you get well soon!:rocker:

Rexican
07-16-2008, 07:24 PM
Sorry ROBOCOP. I hope you heal up soon.
I started reloading with my dad when I was around thirteen. When I was fifteen I was I had a similar injury with a RCBS hand primer. I was priming a mixed bag of 45 ammo and ran across 1942 military casing. My dad had just been called away for a second to help my sister when that particular shell jammed up the tool. I then had a very stupid moment as well.
Being young and impatient, and I squeezed real hard and apparently just fast enough to set off the lodged primer and the 70 other large pistol primers in the tray. I was pretty fortunate, and ended up with third degree burns on my palm and a couple fingers. I also had a hard time explaining that one to the docs.
Best wishes for a speedy recovery

bigbear77
07-16-2008, 07:25 PM
Thank you so much for being willing to share your experience. I've picked metal from my hide a few times during my 30 years of reloading, so you're not alone. My prayers are with you for a rapid and complete recovery.

Norton
07-16-2008, 08:00 PM
Wow.. that was a good post maybe even worthy of a sticky. I have de-primed live primers via the press (carefully)
But this is the first proof I have seen that it can go wrong. I am glad it was not your eye.
So as for Norton this is the end of his de-priming live primers.
Next time they will have powder and bullets pulled and dumped.
Then the primer will be shot into a barrel.
Thanks for the good warning. :thumbup:

pigpen
07-16-2008, 08:26 PM
Sorry to hear about your misfortune. Hope the surgery goes good & you can still use your pinky. Look on the bright side. You don't really need a pinky. What do your use your pinky for anyway? If it was your thumb then I'd worry.

nowhereman
07-16-2008, 08:40 PM
Hope its not permanent nerve damage... Keep that thing streched out!!!

nevada
07-16-2008, 09:03 PM
How was your left hand under the case? I can viualize you holding the screwdriver in place while tapping with the hammer, did the primer ricochet into your hand?

XO3319
07-16-2008, 10:35 PM
Sorry to hear about that

We all get cheap sometimes and I've deprimed live rounds before as well-- never again for me. I've only been releading about 15 years so I'm due for an accident.

Get well soon

bullseye
07-16-2008, 11:12 PM
I guess I have been lucky, I deprime with the Lee decapper and base with a hammer. I've made it through probably 800 rds this year with no problems, but it only takes once. It is a pain to pop them in a chamber first then de-prime, but it is definitely worth it. Nerve damage sucks, hope you don't have any.

Schmitty
07-16-2008, 11:44 PM
Ow, I hope your hand heals up well after the surgery.

Flames set off primers (at least .22 primers) real easily.

Before de-primering some casings you could light a candle, or use something else with a flame, grab each casing with some pliers and set off the primer before removing it. (open end of casing facing in safe direction of course). I'm guessing it's not going to have enough punch to fly out of some pliers. I'm guessing...

SCGrotz
07-17-2008, 12:37 AM
ive never deprimed "live brass"

i always shoot the primers.

good luck with the surgery amigo.

Grasshopper
07-17-2008, 10:54 AM
Thanks for posting this. (I learned a lesson. Well done. ) I hope your going to be Ok.

Rexican
07-17-2008, 12:36 PM
Has anyone built a gravity or inertia-driven system out of some cheap home depot steel pipe? I haven't needed one, but the mechanics would be pretty simple

Schmitty, I personally would not recommend using a candle or open flame with pliers just because I'm meticulous about this area since my accident. with my luck that tinly little piece would bounce off something and end up in on one of my eyes. I can't remember what the three different pieces in primers are, but the metal piece I believe is called the anvil is what did most of the shrapnel damage to my hand.


By the way ROBOCOP, I've been saving up all the 10mm's and misc. brass I've picked up here for you. My dad just bought a 45-70 high wall and is going to start casting bullets for it, so if surgery keeps you from casting for a while I'm sure he'd be happy to get some to you (he's in Austin)

wandering_ronin
07-17-2008, 01:04 PM
Did something quite similar with a shotgun shell primer many years ago. Loud bang, and my middle finger felt funny. Looked down, and noticed a lump on my finger that wasn't there before. Mashed on it, and out fell the primer. Learned not to mess with them even if the appear to be spent. Glad the damage to your hand wasn't worse.

SteelCore
07-17-2008, 04:21 PM
Nasty wound, man.

We zap live primers on empty cases by putting them in the vice and seating a large phillips screwdrive and striking with a hammer.

Woodman in MO
07-17-2008, 04:39 PM
I haven't really looked, but I'm surprised that there isn't a tool for this. I'm thinking maybe that no one wants the liability? I don't think it would be too hard to make one, but you would have to somehow make sure that you can't put a live round round in there.

robocop10mm
07-18-2008, 04:45 PM
After 2 hours with Bier Block (local anesthetic) got home about noon and crashed for a couple hours. Surgeon said nerve not severed, just damaged. Alot of black soot in wound track. Some infection, cleaned out. Still numb after nap, said should last about 6 hours.

Everything should be ok. Stitches come out in 10-14 days. Thanks to all for your words of encouragement. Don't try this at home. It's a PITA.

rifleman
07-18-2008, 05:23 PM
good to hear on the surgery. my neighbor had something similar happen to him. when reloading he had a jamb in the primer tube. so he used a metal rod to pry it free. then boom, five or six primers in his shooting hand. and he is a comp shooter. the doctors laughed when he got there and asked if he was the cop that shot himself.

Rexican
07-18-2008, 05:33 PM
glad to hear it went well. Henry will be back in a week or so. you should get him to load your mags for you.

Stillife
07-18-2008, 08:02 PM
Good to hear from you man.:airtight:

rideronthestorm
07-18-2008, 08:59 PM
Being impatient I was using a drill to widen a hole in a piece of aluminum, while holding said piece in my left hand. Drill bit caught and screwed itself into the hole instead of cutting. It also screwed itself right into my finger. I had to reverse the drill to get unstuck. I didn't want to face a 10 mile drive with my hand, heavy piece of aluminum, and cordless drill all screwed together! I still keep the bloody towel around the shop to remind myself to think next time.

bigbear77
07-18-2008, 09:01 PM
That's really good news, thanks for keeping us informed. :thumbup:

SteelCore
07-25-2008, 12:13 PM
Keep us posted on your recovery.

"Alot of black soot in wound track."

Hey, you increased your carbon handprint! (J/K)

robocop10mm
08-04-2008, 01:10 PM
Carbon handprint, LMAO. Stitches are still in, hopefully will come out this week. I start physical therapy Wednesday. Numbness in pinky finger getting better. Pad of hand beneath pinky and ring finger is still rigid to the touch. Getting better.

Patria Povo
08-04-2008, 01:23 PM
Wishing you a speedy and full recovery, mate! Get well and best wishes.

SteelCore
08-04-2008, 01:36 PM
GLad to hear it, man!

wanno
08-04-2008, 08:48 PM
sorry to hear it, hope every thing turns out all right with the hand

robocop10mm
08-19-2008, 09:13 PM
I forgot to post the follow up pics. These are one week after surgery.

pigpen
08-20-2008, 05:32 PM
Are you right handed or left handed?

For your sake I hope right.

:jerkoff::jerkoff::jerkoff:

Player
08-20-2008, 07:25 PM
I forgot to post the follow up pics. These are one week after surgery.

If you shoot another primer hole in there you will have a smiley face

robocop10mm
08-27-2008, 07:27 AM
Thanks for the suggestion Henry, but I would rather not ever do something that stupid ever again.

SteelCore
08-27-2008, 08:17 AM
Man. that looks more like a coin purse now than a hand.

Has all the feeling come back yet?

robocop10mm
08-28-2008, 08:52 AM
Just as the surgeon predicted, the feeling is beginning to return to the base of the pinky. It will take several months for the nerve to regenerate (from base to tip) but I am seeing significant progress.

Actually I do not really have hands, I have paws (Ask Henry).

Rexican
08-31-2008, 12:43 AM
I have a 6'4" wingspan and some friends call me gorilla arms, but shaking Robocop's paw is an experience summed up by a plus-sized smiley face T-shirt I have seen with the words "I'm big, you're small, have a nice day" on it.
Glad to hear the good news. thanks for keeping us updated.

gunkgy
08-31-2008, 01:24 PM
So far the worst I have done is to spill live primers on the floor and not find them all. My wife usally finds them in the next day or two with the vacuum. :rolleyes::wink:

bigbear77
08-31-2008, 04:30 PM
Just as the surgeon predicted, the feeling is beginning to return to the base of the pinky. It will take several months for the nerve to regenerate (from base to tip) but I am seeing significant progress.

That is great news! Thanks for keeping us posted :thumbup: