Contract date to end War...

[cimmaronkid]

"In recent weeks, the House and Senate voted separately to finance the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan but set an end date for combat in Iraq. The House proposal orders all combat troops out of Iraq as of Aug. 31, 2008, whereas the Senate orders some troops to leave right away with the nonbinding goal of ending combat by March 31, 2008."

I pulled this off of an article found on the web and am quite puzzled by what it is saying. Now mind you, I only graduated with a Masters with honors many years ago, but I never knew we could set a time limit on how long we wanted a war to last. Amazing!

I guess that this country and its people no longer study history and if I remember mine correctly (the liberals could have changed it by now) we fought in an area of the world known as Korea up to a line. The 38th parallel.
We could not go past this line and inflict the necessary damage to the enemy to bring them to the peace table so borders were drawn, every one smiled shook hands and 33,741 American lives were wasted.

Today, we have the North Korean government as an adversary with threats of nuclear retalliation.

In the year 1961, we took over a problem from (Guess Who?) the French in Vietnam and began sending in "advisors". Soon we were up to our ass in a full fledged war (military conflict according to Congress) and on April 30, 1975 the last chopper left Saigon. During these 14 years the military was once again not allowed to strike specific targets, or intrude into other countries that the communists were freely operating out of. (You and I both know we were there, but...) This time, only the communists smiled, shook hands, and over 58,000 Americans had paid the cost for our politicians unwillingness to invade and conquer.

In 1990, a dictator by the name of Saddam Hussein invaded a small country named Kuwait that was and is a major source of oil for this country. On August 2, 1990, the 82nd airborne is ordered into the area and once again the mighty American war machine rolls into gear. On March 3rd, 1991, the Iraqi leadership under Saddam Hussein accept the terms of the cease fire. Everyone sits down at the table, smiles,...well, you know the rest. The cost was 378 dead and around 1,000 wounded for the Americans. And we left the man that started the whole thing in power!

Is anyone besides me beginning to see a trend here?

After taking it in the backside without any lubricant from every Islamic Jhadist on 9/11, President Bush invades Iraq in March, 2003 to capture weapons of mass destruction from the same insane dictator that we should have removed in 1991. We of course did capture Saddam but not until approximately over 3,257 Americans died. And we loose more each day because of a Congress that wants to cut funding to our troops and put a time frame on ending a war instead of supplying enough forces and equipment for a big X in the "Win" colum.

Now because of the politicians not supporting the efforts of our troops we are having trouble with another shithole country (Iran) trying to get the ability to build nuclear bombs under the guise of cheap nuclear power. And eventually we will either invade in a typical half assed manner because of the politicians (see past history) and/or we will all sit down at the table, smile, shake hands... And the American public will be flying more flags at half mast over the cemetaries for our yet to be lost soldiers.

Let's try this... How about issuing each and every member of Congress the necessary gear, weapon and ammo and send them for a little tour and see what they then think of their contract?

[SteelCore]

"I guess that this country and its people no longer study history"
-->Well, speaking as a historian, not studying history is what leads ppl to say, "Nah, that won't happen to me,,,it'll be different" and thus by a fluke of human nature thinking that it should depart from certain good conventional wisdom, history repeats itself (the more things change, the more they stay the same).

The analysis on Strategic forecasting called these wars the product of a "spoiling attack." Spoiling attacks stop the baddies, maybe even force a capituation or cease-fire, but they don't win the war. This is because the necessary forces for a win are not allocated, just enough were allocated to cause the enely to have to regroup, or totally lose cohesion.

Since WWII, not too many (civilized) countries have had the cojones or support to wage an all out war of the scale or magnitude of the world wars. The DoD and CIA directly strive to keep wars small, since history does prove that over-extension (in the case of Rome, Persia, Nazis) and fighting on too many fronts can lead to a BIG LOSS. These departments and agencies keep the wars small and sequential, and thus the US never reall 'commits' to the 'police action' and the pres doesn't even declare a war. Thus a 'loss' can be played down, and a 'win' trumped up politically.

For a warfighter, this would/should PISS THEM OFF bunches. Fighting a war not to win it was a foreign concept to most US citizens, and still is. As a freakin superpower, crushing chumps is almost part of our mandate, right?:icon_twisted:

For a civvie, this may not piss some off, since the 'quality of life' at home does not change much during one of these 'police actions.' No gas rationing, no war bonds, no energy restrictions....hel it's hard to tell we even fought a are in the last 40yrs, if ya ain't payin attention or have a family member or buddy who served.

I'm not saying that this spoiling war tactic is intentional, but by analyzing the afromentioned conflicts, it is hard to dispute that it is in effect.

[[Although most if not all of us here support the troops, there are th0se libs and other blithering idiots that float thru life, and don't care or know what goes on to keep out country safe...they just bitch without understanding. If they lived in France in 1914 or 1941, they'd be al like "Hell yeah! Crush the chumps in their country!"]]

I think if there were more WWII vets alive, we'd be fighting more 'all out' wars, and less of them. I see an "all out' warr coming in the next 100yrs, prolly in the next 50. I guaranteee the topic of the war will be Islam vs the West, no matter how it is spun or sold.

[rustypirate]

The only thing to come from removing all of our troops from Iraq and Afganistan is that the bad guys will have more room and tiem ot plan their attacks, and those attacks will happen HERE in the US, an not THERE.


Evidence of that is a gaping HOLE in Manhattan.

I know that our young men and women are dieing and getting injured in both Iraq and Afganistan, but I really beleive that they would rather put theselves in the line of fire there, than risk the lives of their loved ones here.

what the hell, let the terrorists come, maybe the American people need yet another wakeup call.

[turbothis]

i agree with the wake up call

[kevin]

The problem is congress thinks we need 435 commanders in chief and that the people we are fighting can be negiotiated with.

[bullseye]

It's war, dammit. You can't just open your palm and drop in a date for the end. There are too many variables involved. What happens is they say, they will be leaving soon, just be cool till they are gone they we can light up the place and nobody will bother us. OMFG how stupid can you get???
Bad thoughts, can't go there. not legal. Done and pissed. :terrorist:

[MID]

I think that theres something that many people dont realise, when they compare this war to vietnam. They say we lost vietnam war after a long drawn out conflict. I dissagree. To lose a war you need to be at war with said country, we were never at war with vietnam. WE were really at war russia, and had a proxie war in vietnam with them. And over all we won. Look at russia now. SO i dont get where this lost the vietnam war, it was more of a battle in the grand scheme of the US Russian war. Which once again we won.

Now on to iraq. We won that war too. Sadam is dead. His resiegme in now longer in power.
The problem now in iraq is the same problem we have in the US now. We for some reason cant stop people form a another county form entering. I think we focus too much resources on attacking a symptom instead of the cause. We should spend more resources and time, preventing the bad guys fomr even entering iraq.




But dont listen to me i didnt stay at a holiday in last night.

[SSwee]

Although I may not be as educated as much as some, only completing high school, I can see the idiocy of the politicians. They did teach history when I was in school. From talking to kids nowadays I wonder if they still do. I find that what Cimmeron and Steel say coincide with what I was taught and how I feel on the subject. I have wondered about something since it happened. It is just one more thing to make me wonder about the intelligence of the leaders of this country. I can't remember the name or position of the person but did they not send a female over there for some sort of diplomatic BS with these fanatical islamic people. These same people that make the women cover their face. I know it has changed some there but has it really change that much. It would appear to me that dealing with a chauvinistic culture sending a woman would not be of the highest thought process.
SS

[XO3319]

You shouldn't have to have more than 1 wake up call

another definition of that is being too stupid or ignorant to live:sleep:

[SteelCore]

a sad truth, perhaps, I do agree XO, that it should only take one. Did ppl NOT see that 9/11/01 was the beginning of WWIII?

Ppl over here have just had it too easy. they didn't have to live thru the depression, or thru the 'terrorist' tactics of Nazi Germany, (I bet 90% of the kids today don't evn know what the Lusitania is!) or endure the 'terror' bombing of pearl city and Pearl Harbor by the Japanese, or the terror rocketing/shelling of London. If ppl had that type of disruption of their daily lives, theny might not have grown so soft, or so bleedin-heart lib on us.

You have to read a lot of war history to understand the justification of the firebombing of Dresden and Tokyo, and the use of Two nukes on Japan. It really was justified--a few hundred thou did have to die to save millions.

I'm reding a book on D-Day right now, a pretty good one. In the book, they discuss the remarkable and strong alliance formed by Churchill and FDR, and how it was so amazing because democratic societies tend to quickly tire of war.
Think about that--democratic societies tend to quickly tire of war. Perhaps that's what we're seeing in modern things like Iraq. the alliances (and there were doezens allied with Britain and US) between democratic societies held good for a while, then they lost the backing of their ppl, and the alliance broke. If that had happened in WWII, wed all be speaking Deutch gans gut!

BTW, the 'pull out date' for WWII was set for "THE TOTAL CRUSHING OF THE NAZI GERMAN POWER." Nothing less would do. Even when the grmans knew they were i decline in 1943, they kept on, that is what they do. The Japanese were even more honor-bound and tenacious to keep up the fight (hel, all the purple hearts stil being handed out today were made during WWII in antcipation of the Marines invading the Home Islands...the bombs saved them from that fate).

Were it me, the date for pullout from the mideast would be set for the TOTAL CRUSHING OF ISLAMO-FASCISM. Also, stop fookin' around and put the Marines back in there, get reservists out or holding green zones or building stuff back up.

[Also, you don't need a Gitmo if you execute the troublemaking isurgents. Take some lessons from the Mongol or the Huns, they knew how to conquer territory.]

[cimmaronkid]

We all basically agree. The unfortunate part is that the general public, because they have not been inconvenienced by these wars, goes through their daily routine with their head up their ass as several of you have stated. Conservatives have been assualted at every turn by nut jobs that want to take away every liberty possible in the hopes that the liberals will protect them from society much as a parent protects a young child as these people don't want to think for themselves and would rather have someone make their decisions for them thereby clearing their heads for their ultimate pursuit of voting for whoever on American Idol or wondering which Hollywood couple is doing whatever. They have no idea of what is happening in the world and don't care as long as they can still get to Starbucks and that is how their children are being raised and educated as well. These people are and always will be sheep.

What they fail to comprehend is that the people they think are their providers usually have a hidden agenda that will only benefit them and their immediates. Note the recent press releases of some anti gun politicians in congress giving gifts of firearms to immediate relatives or defense contracts to their husband's companies. These same people will also be the first to abandon their following sheep when the SHTF and will catch the first means of transportation to save THEIR ASS.

Had this country come to the aid of England back in 1939, WWII would not have lasted as long. But we sat back and said that Europe was not our concern much as we are doing with the Middle East today. The next wake up call could be worse than 9/11, the sheep will bleet for help and revenge and once again history will repeat itself as the American war machine grinds into gear and the words of Admiral Yamamoto will once again come true.

“I fear that we have awakened a sleeping giant
and filled him with a terrible resolve.”

[bullseye]

The giant needs to wake up and resolve this in a hurry. :plane: :tanker: :sterb126: :terrorist: :usmc: