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Thread: do you need scopes

  1. #1
    Veteran RLDBUSER's Avatar
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    do you need scopes

    im not trying to start up trouble but, how come alot of the ar style rifles i have seen here and other sights, have scopes i thought that they were know for accuarcy? most of the other battle rifles here just have opens sights?????dont get me wrong, i like the ar 10 and i would put a scope on it if i had one.just wondering

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    7.62guy's Avatar
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    maybe they

    =RLDBUSER;146092]im not trying to start up trouble but, how come alot of the ar style rifles i have seen here and other sights, have scopes i thought that they were know for accuarcy? most of the other battle rifles here just have opens sights?????dont get me wrong, i like the ar 10 and i would put a scope on it if i had one.just wondering[/QUOTE]

    belong to folks like me that can't see a hundred yards anymore.
    For those who fought for it, freedom holds a flavor the protected will never know. Those who hammer their guns into plows-will plow for those who do not. Thomas Jefferson

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    drine's Avatar
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    Assault rifles have evolved to using optics now. Lot's of the boys in the sandboxes have red dots and such. Some with magnification even. I like using them for hunting or to see just what my rifle is capable of. I shoot open sights on the AK because I can see that sight picture better now than the peeps on the CETME or AR. I can rapid fire with my red dot in the size of my fist at 50 yds. Not with the open sights. I believe the military has gone that route because some kind of optic will make a good shooter better.
    It always looks darkest.....just before it goes totally black.
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  4. #4
    Senior Veteran bladeworks123's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 7.62guy View Post
    =RLDBUSER;146092]im not trying to start up trouble but, how come alot of the ar style rifles i have seen here and other sights, have scopes i thought that they were know for accuarcy? most of the other battle rifles here just have opens sights?????dont get me wrong, i like the ar 10 and i would put a scope on it if i had one.just wondering
    belong to folks like me that can't see a hundred yards anymore.[/quote]

    That is a question that should be asked by more people...The unspoken norm is to assume that a scoped rifle is more accurate than one that is not....This is not the case.
    The main reason for a scope is exactly what 7.62 and Drine have eluded to. Whether you have trouble seeing as good as you used to like 7.62 and myself or not, a scope is an optical aid that improves the capability of the shooter,,,better control of shot placement at greater ranges. For a "battle" rifle, optics are generally not practical, they are fragile and prone to being broken under the rigors of combat use, and typically take more time to acquire sight picture, but in combat, distance equals time... And most battlefield combat takes place at less than 200 meters, where so called "minute of man" accuracy is all the shooter needs to be capable of. On a high percentage of military rifles that are equipped with any sort of optics, the fixed sighting system is left in place, for that very reason, scopes are intended to augment the iron sights for the benefit of the shooter, not to replace them. Anyway, a scope is only a device that allows the shooter to better place shots at longer ranges than is practical with iron sights. My AR10 fires the same group and has the same level of accuracy despite my ability, if you clamp the weapon down in a ransom rest so it can't move, it will pretty much shoot with the same level of accuracy every time you pull the trigger. The scope on it improves my ability not the rifle's. If you place that same scoped rifle indoors or in close quarters like urban combat, at ranges as close as a few feet or yards, then the scope has to go and is replaced by another optical device, a red dot or holograhic sight, intended again to improve the capability of the shooter, to aid him/her in rapid sight aquisition in low light or close quarters. So to sum up....some rifles have scopes because the shooter needs them to improve his capability in the situation he is shooting in. Always remember that a shooter and his weapon are part of a system that are matched together for a particular need. If the situation needs a shooter with a scoped weapon in order for the shooter to perform better, then put on a scope.
    Last edited by bladeworks123; 07-07-2009 at 12:24 PM.
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  5. #5
    Senior Veteran ackspac's Avatar
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    I myself didnt care for scopes when I was in my teens and early 20's. Now I think all but 2 of my rifles have optics on them. My sight is still perfect, but I noticed how much more accurate a good scope makes my aim. My oldest son just got back from Camp Pendelton for more combat training. He said the USMC has now put Acogs on their M16's. He said at first he hated the Acog,(after going from open A2 sights) but by the end of the day he realized how much more accurate his shots were with the scope.

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    Veteran RLDBUSER's Avatar
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    wow what a bunch of cool dudes, any other forum and they would have kick me out and given me lots of lip.

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    Senior Veteran Smokehouse69's Avatar
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    belong to folks like me that can't see a hundred yards anymore.

    What he said... I can't see good enough with my close vision to see the iron sights.... plus I can't see 100 yards anymore either.
    COG Member #1069

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    and this I shall never submit to." Horatio Lord Nelson

  8. #8
    7.62guy's Avatar
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    it is good

    Quote Originally Posted by bladeworks123 View Post
    belong to folks like me that can't see a hundred yards anymore.
    That is a question that should be asked by more people...The unspoken norm is to assume that a scoped rifle is more accurate than one that is not....This is not the case.
    The main reason for a scope is exactly what 7.62 and Drine have eluded to. Whether you have trouble seeing as good as you used to like 7.62 and myself or not, a scope is an optical aid that improves the capability of the shooter,,,better control of shot placement at greater ranges. For a "battle" rifle, optics are generally not practical, they are fragile and prone to being broken under the rigors of combat use, and typically take more time to acquire sight picture, but in combat, distance equals time... And most battlefield combat takes place at less than 200 meters, where so called "minute of man" accuracy is all the shooter needs to be capable of. On a high percentage of military rifles that are equipped with any sort of optics, the fixed sighting system is left in place, for that very reason, scopes are intended to augment the iron sights for the benefit of the shooter, not to replace them. Anyway, a scope is only a device that allows the shooter to better place shots at longer ranges than is practical with iron sights. My AR10 fires the same group and has the same level of accuracy despite my ability, if you clamp the weapon down in a ransom rest so it can't move, it will pretty much shoot with the same level of accuracy every time you pull the trigger. The scope on it improves my ability not the rifle's. If you place that same scoped rifle indoors or in close quarters like urban combat, at ranges as close as a few feet or yards, then the scope has to go and is replaced by another optical device, a red dot or holograhic sight, intended again to improve the capability of the shooter, to aid him/her in rapid sight aquisition in low light or close quarters. So to sum up....some rifles have scopes because the shooter needs them to improve his capability in the situation he is shooting in. Always remember that a shooter and his weapon are part of a system that are matched together for a particular need. If the situation needs a shooter with a scoped weapon in order for the shooter to perform better, then put on a scope.[/QUOTE]
    to have people that seem to know exactly what you mean without having to go thru a long song and dance. i only say this because it would take me a hour to type out what you said. never should have told my typing teacher that if i needed to type a letter i would hire a secretary.
    For those who fought for it, freedom holds a flavor the protected will never know. Those who hammer their guns into plows-will plow for those who do not. Thomas Jefferson

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    7.62guy's Avatar
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    if that is

    Quote Originally Posted by RLDBUSER View Post
    wow what a bunch of cool dudes, any other forum and they would have kick me out and given me lots of lip.
    how it goes on the sites, then i'm glad i hang out here.
    For those who fought for it, freedom holds a flavor the protected will never know. Those who hammer their guns into plows-will plow for those who do not. Thomas Jefferson

  10. #10
    Senior Veteran Smokehouse69's Avatar
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    I've seen 100's maybe 1000's of pics of combat operations from Iraq and Afghanistan and I think every picture I have seen of one of our guys carrying a rifle, they have had some sort of optical device on it. Some are Aimpoints or some other sort of red dot scope setup a small number appear to be scopes with magnification.
    In my opinion if you are in combat that a device like an Aimpoint is going to allow you to get on target and fire accurately a hell of a lot faster than iron sites. Common sense seems to tell me that scopes with magnification, would probably be a hinderence in most fire fight type situations.
    COG Member #1069

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