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Thread: buying/selling procedures without an ffl

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    Veteran Karl E. Hungus's Avatar
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    buying/selling procedures without an ffl

    hey guys im going to try to put a rifle or two up here in the coming days and i just want to get the legalities in transfer confirmed..considering i dont have an ffl.

    so what happens is...?

    i put a rifle up for sale here. when i find a buying party, the party sends me payment.. then..

    i go to my ffl, pay a transfer fee, and instruct them to send the rifle to the buyers ffl. and thats it? have i missed anything? i dont want to piss off the BATF or a buyer for that matter.

  2. #2
    Senior Veteran mistersquiggles's Avatar
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    the BUYER has to pay transfer fee.... and theyre the ones that have to go to the FFL too.... you cant recieve a firearm in the mail unless it goes through a FFL... there are exceptions, but i dont know all the particulars

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    Senior Veteran ctdemolay0405's Avatar
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    i just bought a gun on gunbroker, the seller didnt have an FFL, and the weapon was shipped to my local FFL, so u should be clear.


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  4. #4
    Veteran Karl E. Hungus's Avatar
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    sooo... i can just package and send the rifle myself? ... to the buyers ffl. is it possible that in one state i may have to but in another i may not have to?

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    Senior Veteran The Great 308's Avatar
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    Thumbs up

    I have sold a couple of rifles on line and I do not have an FFL. You can do it just make sure you do it the right way. The seller must send you a signed copy of his dealer's FFL. It must be signed in red or blue ink. You can then go to the following link to make sure that the FFL is valid.

    https://www.atfonline.gov/fflezcheck/

    If the funds clear and the FFL is valid you must then follow proper shipping procedures. Gunbroker has a good shipping guide.

    http://www.gunbroker.com/Support/Sup...1118&NoCount=1

    This is really a fairly simple process I personally used FEDEX. When you take the rifle to ship you must let them know what it is and that it is not loaded and there can not be any ammunition in the box. They generally want to open and inspect the way the rifle is packed. They did this while I waited it only took a few minutes and they taped it right back up. Make sure that you take the signed copy of the FFL license with you. They will make a photo copy of it and attach it to the outside of the package. The rifle must be shipped to the FFL address.

    It is also a good idea to put a typed letter in with the rifle with your name address and phone #. Also the terms of the deal including the buyers name and address. That way the FFL knows who to contact to pick up the rifle. You do not need to transfer the rifle. Since it is going to an FFL the only way the buyer can get the rifle is to have the FFL transfer it to his name.

    Of course you can get a tracking # from FEDEX and then both you and the buyer can track the progress of the rifle on line.

    Good luck with your sale

  6. #6
    Veteran nalioth's Avatar
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    When you finalize a deal, you ask for the buyer to send you a copy of the receiving FFL license and the payment.

    You then go to https://www.atfonline.gov/fflezcheck and confirm the FFL license is valid.

    Some FFLs insist on only dealing with other FFLs. In this case, ask your local FFL to receive and verify the authenticity of the FFL for you. You can still send the firearm to the receiving FFL yourself (it is not a legal requirement that only FFLs can transfer to other FFLs, it is only law that it be transferred to an out of state FFL licensee [Some FFL holders have been burned by non licensees and they have a personal preference of only dealing with other FFL holders] )

    Handguns must ship overnight, unless it comes from one FFL licensee to another FFL licensee.

    Long guns can ship by any common carrier (this includes the post office).
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    tanstaafl4y's Avatar
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    I have not sold a hand gun or shipped via USPS. However, this is

    what I have done for rifles:

    I recieve payment from the buyer and an INK signed copy of the FFL recieving the rifle. I package the rifle in a box (no ammunition). inside the box I also place a copy of the FFL and a "letter" statint this rifle is for John Smith (123)456-7890 123 mockingbird lane and is being shipped to XYZ Gunshop Attn: Mike Jabrone, 4321 Candy lane. FFL# 1234567890.

    I go to my local UPS Hub (Not the UPS Store - they are individually owned and will not accept the firearm). Have a second copy of the FFL to present to the cachier along with your photo ID. Hand her the paperwork and say "this shipment contains an unloaded firearm for shipping to a FFL Holder." She will ask a few question (is there any ammunition, explosives, yada yada.)

    I cant remember if it is required or not but I alwas add "adult signature required"

    The buyer is responsible for coordinating with the FFL holder to do Federal, state paperwork. The "transfer fee" is paid by the buyer to his FFL for the privlidge of haveing a firearm shipped to him.


    * Edit: I also keep a copy of the FFL to Cover my behind incase there is a problem during shipment.
    Last edited by tanstaafl4y; 08-06-2007 at 02:29 PM.
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  8. #8
    Veteran nalioth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tanstaafl4y View Post
    I recieve payment from the buyer and an INK signed copy of the FFL recieving the rifle.
    Ink signed copies are not legally required any more, and in fact I've purchased guns from some folks who are satisfied by finding my FFL licensees info in the ATF database (they told me not to send a copy, as they were satisfied the licensee was legit from the info on the ATF website), but some people are not really comfortable with this.

    I usually always use USPS for my guns, with delivery confirmation and insurance. Never had a problem.
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  9. #9
    Veteran texlurch's Avatar
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    A lot of FFL's don't want to ship their copy to a non-FFL, so it is a good idea to have one lined up to help you out.

    It also used to be that if you were buying something in state, it didn't have to go thru an FFL. Need to do some digging on that but it was that way in Texas.....
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